Post by shymaid on Jan 7, 2018 14:22:53 GMT
In this chapter we don't get alot of clues about our usual suspect children as I could see, but we do get some interesting bits concerning Robb. And I will keep it quite stricktly to parentage here, as there is alot of other goodies in this chapter.
Some tinfoil is needed here, so be aware!
We've already got mentionings of the different looks of the Stark children, with Jon and Arya being very Stark while the others taking after the Tullys. But what struck me here is that only their coloring is mentioned. From Arya I we get that "Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys" but as far as I remember we never hear if Robb, Bran or Rickon resembles Catelyn and the Tullys in their facial features. I must admit I'm too lazy to look for it now, so I might be wrong here. But it did make me wonder and look for clues to Robb here.
Catelyn uses "something of Eddard Stark in his face" which she then connects to the north. So, is it something in her use of "Eddard Stark" and not his father here? It seems more like a mannerism than a clear feature, but that doesn't mean Robb is without any resemblance to the Stark in his face. We do have two possible Stark fathers if we want to speculate about Robb. As Brandon seemed like very different from his younger brother, pointing out Eddard here might be a clue.
Her firstborn, her son? While I doubt anyone thinks Catelyn had any children before Robb, I do find it interesting that she uses this distinction and then shortly after points out her son is master at Winterfell for the time being. As she just brought up Ned, why not his son? Though, she does have a tendency to think of her children as just hers in quite the posessive manner.
Now, this sounds familiar, doesn't it? Reminicent of the Wild Wolf prone to rash actions perhaps? The one called "a gallant fool" by Catelyn's own father?
Ah, history repeats itself! Robb's age aside, I do think Catelyn got a little flashback here, to another Stark heir wanting the truth of what happened to a sibling in King's Landing.
If we are to speculate here, she is very intent on keeping Robb, her firstborn, as the Stark in Winterfell. While his age is a good point in having him there, he does have two brothers who can fill the place as a Stark in Winterfell. Considering her focus on this, is it possible Robb is the son of Rikard's oldest son and therefor the rightfull heir to Winterfell as the oldest son of Brandon? The legitimate part of this comes into play here, with Brandon and Cat not officially marrying before he died. But I have speculated that she never really got over Brandon. So if he got her pregnant before he died, her marrying Ned and passing off his brother's son as his would also fit in with this if she felt Robb was the rightfull heir inspite of not marrying. And from the outside all would seem legitimate!
Personally I'm far from sure if this really fits with the timeline. I seem to remember Ned and Cat marrying a year later to the day she was to marry Brandon, but I can't find the quote. If anyone does, please post it! If this isn't the case, I still doubt the timeline would fit. Quite some time passed between Brandon leaving Riverrun - before Lyanna disappeared, and Ned getting around to marry her. At the very least a noticable babybump would be present imo.
But I see these clues in the text, so I'll post them!
And now, let's turn the overanalyzing-dial way way up!
The first thing that hit me here is the use of "windborn". As I've just finished Dance, the Windblown is up front in my memory. That is the sellsword company Quentyn, a second son, joins to get to Mereen. I seriously doubt there is any connection between him and Robb, but could it be a hint for Robbs real place in birthorder? A second son? Interestingly, Quentyn's sister thinks he will take her birthright, so there is a possible parallell here.
That being said, one word used probably randomly at the start of the first book doesn't have to mean anything. The name of this sellsword company comes along in Dance and long into the story. Just found it interesting!
Notable mention:
Tyrion kindly proveds us information about dragonbone in the chapter preceding this, where that dagger has a gragonbone hilt.
Some tinfoil is needed here, so be aware!
Catelyn had always thought Robb looked like her; like Bran and Rickon and Sansa, he had the Tully coloring, the auburn hair, the blue eyes. Yet now for the first time she saw something of Eddard Stark in his face, something as stern and hard as the north. "What am I doing?" she echoed, puzzled. "How can you ask that? What do you imagine I'm doing? I am taking care of your brother. I am taking care of Bran."
We've already got mentionings of the different looks of the Stark children, with Jon and Arya being very Stark while the others taking after the Tullys. But what struck me here is that only their coloring is mentioned. From Arya I we get that "Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys" but as far as I remember we never hear if Robb, Bran or Rickon resembles Catelyn and the Tullys in their facial features. I must admit I'm too lazy to look for it now, so I might be wrong here. But it did make me wonder and look for clues to Robb here.
Catelyn uses "something of Eddard Stark in his face" which she then connects to the north. So, is it something in her use of "Eddard Stark" and not his father here? It seems more like a mannerism than a clear feature, but that doesn't mean Robb is without any resemblance to the Stark in his face. We do have two possible Stark fathers if we want to speculate about Robb. As Brandon seemed like very different from his younger brother, pointing out Eddard here might be a clue.
Catelyn gave her firstborn a challenging look. "If you are to rule in the north, you must think these things through, Robb. Answer your own question. Why would anyone want to kill a sleeping child?"
"So long as Lord Eddard is away, my son is the master of Winterfell," she told him.
Her firstborn, her son? While I doubt anyone thinks Catelyn had any children before Robb, I do find it interesting that she uses this distinction and then shortly after points out her son is master at Winterfell for the time being. As she just brought up Ned, why not his son? Though, she does have a tendency to think of her children as just hers in quite the posessive manner.
"Gods," Robb swore, his young face dark with anger. "If this is true, he will pay for it." He drew his sword and waved it in the air. "I'll kill him myself!"
Ser Rodrik bristled at him. "Put that away! The Lannisters are a hundred leagues away. Never draw your sword unless you mean to use it. How many times must I tell you, foolish boy?"
Ser Rodrik bristled at him. "Put that away! The Lannisters are a hundred leagues away. Never draw your sword unless you mean to use it. How many times must I tell you, foolish boy?"
Now, this sounds familiar, doesn't it? Reminicent of the Wild Wolf prone to rash actions perhaps? The one called "a gallant fool" by Catelyn's own father?
There was only one place to find the truth of it, Catelyn realized. "Someone must go to King's Landing."
"I'll go," Robb said.
"No," she told him. "Your place is here. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell." She looked at Ser Rodrik with his great white whiskers, at Maester Luwin in his grey robes, at young Greyjoy, lean and dark and impetuous. Who to send? Who would be believed? Then she knew. Catelyn struggled to push back the blankets, her bandaged fingers as stiff and unyielding as stone. She climbed out of bed. "I must go myself."
"I'll go," Robb said.
"No," she told him. "Your place is here. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell." She looked at Ser Rodrik with his great white whiskers, at Maester Luwin in his grey robes, at young Greyjoy, lean and dark and impetuous. Who to send? Who would be believed? Then she knew. Catelyn struggled to push back the blankets, her bandaged fingers as stiff and unyielding as stone. She climbed out of bed. "I must go myself."
Ah, history repeats itself! Robb's age aside, I do think Catelyn got a little flashback here, to another Stark heir wanting the truth of what happened to a sibling in King's Landing.
If we are to speculate here, she is very intent on keeping Robb, her firstborn, as the Stark in Winterfell. While his age is a good point in having him there, he does have two brothers who can fill the place as a Stark in Winterfell. Considering her focus on this, is it possible Robb is the son of Rikard's oldest son and therefor the rightfull heir to Winterfell as the oldest son of Brandon? The legitimate part of this comes into play here, with Brandon and Cat not officially marrying before he died. But I have speculated that she never really got over Brandon. So if he got her pregnant before he died, her marrying Ned and passing off his brother's son as his would also fit in with this if she felt Robb was the rightfull heir inspite of not marrying. And from the outside all would seem legitimate!
Personally I'm far from sure if this really fits with the timeline. I seem to remember Ned and Cat marrying a year later to the day she was to marry Brandon, but I can't find the quote. If anyone does, please post it! If this isn't the case, I still doubt the timeline would fit. Quite some time passed between Brandon leaving Riverrun - before Lyanna disappeared, and Ned getting around to marry her. At the very least a noticable babybump would be present imo.
But I see these clues in the text, so I'll post them!
And now, let's turn the overanalyzing-dial way way up!
Her son glanced at the names. He had come from outside, Catelyn saw; his cheeks were red from the cold, his hair shaggy and windblown. "Good men," he said. "We'll talk about them tomorrow." He handed back the list of names.
The first thing that hit me here is the use of "windborn". As I've just finished Dance, the Windblown is up front in my memory. That is the sellsword company Quentyn, a second son, joins to get to Mereen. I seriously doubt there is any connection between him and Robb, but could it be a hint for Robbs real place in birthorder? A second son? Interestingly, Quentyn's sister thinks he will take her birthright, so there is a possible parallell here.
That being said, one word used probably randomly at the start of the first book doesn't have to mean anything. The name of this sellsword company comes along in Dance and long into the story. Just found it interesting!
Notable mention:
Tyrion kindly proveds us information about dragonbone in the chapter preceding this, where that dagger has a gragonbone hilt.