Alayne.....Baelish?

I wonder if this story is true, or just something Baelish likes to tell people! He certainly thinks of himself as great.

Good point! Since he is a man who stretches the truth, or just makes up a story to suit his needs, it's hard to say if Alayne was indeed his mothers name. But it might be. We also don't know his father's first name, which could be interesting.

I am also very interested in name connections in the story. I have recently been on the idea of Alysanne Targaryen (the good queen) and her mother Alyssa Valeryon, and what connection they might have to House Stark, if any. I think that Alysanne (or Alysane, as in Mormont) no matter how you spell it, is similar to Lynesse (as in Hightower) and Lyanna (as in Stark), just moving or subtracting a few letters. Alyssa also is much like Lysa (as in Arryn nee Tully).

So, I can see the connections you are trying to make, and I think you might be on to something. It's possible that we are missing some important information that would make it all fall into place nicely if we had it. GRRM isn't giving us the nice or easy information, at least not yet.

It's also possible that if Baelish is related to the Arryn's, it is from a generation previous to Jon Arryn and his siblings. After all, what we are told is that Harry is the heir because his mother, the youngest of those grandchildren descended from Jon's sister Alys and her husband Elys, is the direct line of decent in the Vale. It's possible that Littlefinger could be trying to put Harry in charge only to take him out at some point. Then the Vale perhaps would need to look back a generation further for their heir, and THAT might be Littlefinger. I think Littlefinger is playing a long, long game, and so for him to have a plot like this would not surprise me.

However, I think his plot for himself if such a thing exist, but even his plot for Harry the Heir is going to be foiled by the child of another of Alys and Elys's offspring.

This is not my original thought by any means, as I came across it on the internet several years ago, but it pertains the that daughter that was carried off by the burned men, and a child she may have had. I know you prefer your tinfoil rather sturdy, but I am okay with mine be super thin and super shiny.

Timett is the son of a man named Timett, and there is no mention of his mother, but he certainly has to have one. I can't even begin to say what the marrying practices of the Burned Men are, but perhaps Timett the elder was the burned man who carried Elys and Alys's 4th daughter away. Perhaps he made her his wife, and perhaps she had a son named Timett? Our one-eye'd fierce and blunt Timett son of Timett.

Harrold Harding is probably around 18 or 19 years old, and the only child of his parents marriage.


Age wise, Timett is around the same age as Harry, which could be possible if his mother was kidnapped and had a child pretty promptly, assuming that the 4th and 5th daughters mentioned were close in age.

We are told that Timett and his surviving burned men had returned to the Vale, and I see no reason to think that he is not raiding from the Mountains of the Moon. I haven't read any of the Winds of Winter released chapters, but we know from Feast that Sansa/Alayne has descended to the Gates of the Moon, and a plan is in place by Baelish to marry her to Harry the Heir. I think at some point, Timett will cause either Harry or Baelish some troubles, and I pretty certain it will include Sansa/Alayne. I wonder if we might see another kidnapping/rescue for Sansa. If Sansa falls out of Baelish's hands, she might fall into Timett's.

I don't know if they could have a future together, but Timett would certainly recognize Sansa from his time as Tyrion's man in Kings Landing. Timett might have only one eye, but he isn't blind! And Timett isn't stupid. He would know how valuable Sansa Stark is, to Baelish, but also to the north, as well as the vale and the riverlands, and Westeros in general. Much of Baelish's plan seems to hinge on making the marriage between Harry and Sansa. I think it would be very ironic if Baelish's plot was foiled by the son of the one descendant of house Arryn who would be placed just above Harry in the line of succession, something that Baelish could not control. Of course, this depends on if such a connection of Timett to House Arryn could be proved.

But just as people speculate that a daughter of House Umber had been kidnapped by wildlings and might still be alive, it's possible that the kidnapped daughter of Elys and Alys might be alive, and if so, she could prove that her son is heir to the Vale. All of this depends on Sweetrobin's death, of course.

Also, any marriage that anyone plans for Sansa will have to take into consideration that she is currently and very legally married to Tyrion.

I am not trying to derail your idea, because I think you are on to something with the idea of Baelish perhaps having a blood connection to the Vale. I think he could be planning to place himself as a candidate after something happens to both Sweetrobin and to Harry the Heir. He might want a marriage for Sansa and Harry, but not a child of that relationship, but of course, a man who owns brothel's would be able to avoid a pregnancy for Sansa. If Sansa then needed to remarry, I am sure that Baelish would marry her. This would give him control over the vale, and the north, and if something would happen to Edmure Tully's son, then Sansa might be considered the heir to the riverlands, as well. The Frey's will not be able to hold the riverlands and people will look to House Tully for leadership, I think.

If Baelish has contrived such a plot, I would love to see it fall apart because of a one-eyed heathen from the Mountains of the Moon, a man who is considered a leader of the burned men, a tribe that all of the other mountain clans fear and respect. The vale could come to heal very quickly under Timett, if he should make an alliance with Sansa, and it could leave Baelish on the outside looking in.

My own added tinfoil is that we might see Timett kill a very important person in a pretty brutal way, as has been foreshadowed in Timett's arc.

I think that both Tyrion and Varys are options to be killed in this way, but since they are both mentioned in this scene, as is Bronn, I think the person who will have his throat ripped out by Timett is not involved in this scene. I rather hope that is how Baelish goes out, with Timett son of Timett tearing out his throat. It rather foreshadows back to Ned putting a dagger to Baelish's throat outside that brothel. Ned should have cut Littlefinger's throat then (for a perceived insult to Cat), and saved everyone some turmoil, but I hope that Timett actually rips out Baelish's throat (perhaps for an actual or perceived insult to Sansa), ending his conniving ways once and for all. A dagger to the throat would have been cleaner, but Baelish doesn't deserve a clean death, I don't think.

Anyway, I think you are on to something with Baelish and the Arryn's, I just think it might be one generation sooner. We are not told much of Jaspar Arryn, or his mother or father or wife, so the connection to Baelish could lie there.



Another thought I have about the name of Alayne, is that it is similar to Lyanna, at least in letter's, and I wonder if this is Baelish being shifty as well as snarky and hinting that he know's something of what happened to Lyanna. The fact that he give's Sansa a name that is similar to Lyanna might be a clue that Sansa is following her aunts path, and perhaps Baelish had something to do with it. After all, for some reason, at the beginning of the rebellion, Ned traveled through the Mountains of the Moon to get to the north, and he is traveling with a mystery women. It has always seemed like an odd path for Ned to travel, when he could have just taken the high road and connected to the kingsroad and gone north. Could this women have been in the hands of these mountain tribes at some point. Perhaps Lyanna was kidnapped, but not by anybody people suspect.
(Sorry, I am almost blinded by the brightness of this idea, which really just occurred to me  )

I had not considered this. Your right, he would recognize Sansa and he would know she was important. I definitely see the Hill Tribes coming back into the story(especially after Tyrion armed them)and this may just be the way they come back into it.



For some reason(probably a show thing) Timmets age escaped me until you pointed it out.


My thoughts exactly.

i think Baelish lets us know what he wants,
He could have used any other castles as examples but he chose these. He has Harrenhall at this point and he has Sansa, the key to the other three.

The whole tournament idea littlefinger has may be inspired by history.I was reading the AWOIAF book and i came across someone who may have inspired him.
Even though LF isnt a ferocious warrior, he definitely has a honeyed tongue. He's brokering marriages and he is definitely being open handed. Ive never heard of LF being good at archery but he may have a good eye for target sports.


this is very interesting. If this idea blossoms i would love to be tagged into anything you post about it.

Timett seems older when you are reading, but he is a young man. He is also the only one of the Vale tribesmen that I have found that has an age listed for him, which rather seems like it might be important. We are never told anything about Shagga or Chella having a specific age, or even an estimated one. I think Timett could be important.

I agree. Winterfell, Riverrun, the Eyrie!  This is what Petyr Baelish wants. Winterfell as revenge to Brandon Stark, I suppose. Riverrun because it was the place he was raised but was not good enough to marry into the Tully family, so revenge to Hoster, but why the Eyrie? There has to be some reason, and blood makes sense, especially if he feels he or his mother might have been overlooked. Baelish is not one to forget perceived insults!

I am not sure if Baelish wants Harrenhal, but he certainly is willing to use it as a stepping stone.

Hard to say what Baelish has been hiding. In that scene with Cat in Game, when Litterfinger first has Catelyn brought to him, and she shows him the dagger, Baelish takes the dagger and throws it across the room, embedding the blade in the door; "He grasped the blade between thumb and forefinger, drew it back over his shoulder, and threw it across the room with a practiced flick of his wrist. It struck the door and buried itself deep in the oak, quivering". It takes some skill and accuracy to do that, so I think he could be practiced in other aspects of weapons. Archery would not surprise me at all, and it even possibly being good with a bravos blade, and trained in the manner of a water dancer from Braavos. I think Petyr Baelish is probably hiding many secret weapons about him self.


The name connections are very interesting to me, so this is something I have wondered. Both Sansa and Arya end up assuming secret identities to help disguise themselves while in hiding, but it's hard to know which of their stories is accurately telling us about Lyanna. It must be a combination, but it's still a lot of paths to weave down. Mostly stuff comes to me on the fly. I have also wondered if one of their tales is to tell us about Lyanna and the other to tell us about Ashara, but then it get's more complicated.

Well I was referring to his rising to Master of Coin but I understand your point. However don't hate the player hate the game. While I fully admit things will probably come crashing down around his head he might just end up as the Karma Houdini of Westeros, but I wouldn't bet on it.


We remember his father is the man who befriended Hoster Tully, the LP of another region of Westeros and did something so awesome that he promised to foster elder Baelish's son. I always liked the notion that he saved his life during the War of Ninepenny kings but it could have been something else entirely.

Yes this is absolute tinfoil but its fun to think about.


Sounds like a plausible Westerosi cover up to me.


Valyrian blood I can see, harder to figure out some odd connection to House Targaryen. However the idea of Baelish coming out to Dany as her great uncle or something bizarre would be... well bizarre. Also the Bael to Baelish connection is fascinating. 


It is indeed. I think the IB is poised to make some interesting plays in the final books.

Indeed this and the parallels to Baelish and Jay Gatsby are has be thinking he might get away with it. Martin likes Gatsby.


I admit it would kind of sully his self made man appeal if he learned this intrigue from his father but where did this hedgeknight learn it? We have to go deeper down the rabbit hole.


From Cat's POV it certainly seemed the case. I can't imagine he would be happy, still Petyr was almost a man grown at that point. Then again he shot for Cat and lost, hard to do better than a LP daughter. What I really want to know is what Baelish did between this and getting the Gulltown post. Methinks Braavos.

I am fairly sure that Baelish will back Dany when she finally makes it to Westeros.

As far as the Bael connection... I am not sure even he knows, stupid gardening writing style takes him forever to finish books and makes too much shit feel connected.


I wasn't really referring to that but the crown's debt. I half expect the Iron Bank to own the throne of Westeros before the end. Then they can flip Westeros, sell it to Yi Ti for a profit.

Its so hard to say since we know next to nothing about his father or his relationship with the man. However I don't think he thinks too highly of his father from some of his dialogue with Sansa. Its all speculation really.


You put all your eggs in one basket when its the basket full of dragon eggs.


That is certainly true. Tricksy fat author Gollum Gollum.