Robert and Renly and that darn peach!

Part Two: That darn peach and what it might be trying to tell us

This is full of cracked pot worthy speculation, but here goes!

The idea of the peach has been long debated. The most common assessment of what the peach means is death, and I have seen that in theories over the last several years. Another idea is that the peach mean's summer, or the warm, juicy joy's of summer. Another interpretation is that the peach has to do with sex or pleasure. I think all of these are valid interpretations, and I can see how they could be what GRRM has intended. It would not surprise me if any of these idea's turns out to be the correct concept.

But just for fun and games, I am going to present the idea of something a bit different. 

The first mention of a peach that we get in our story is very early, in Ned and Robert's first conversation in the crypts of Winterfell.

So, we are introduced to the idea of Robert talking of women who lose all modesty (this seems to be Robert's favorite type of woman), and his idea of fruit so ripe it explodes in your mouth. One of the fruits he talks about is peaches, but it doesn't stand out at this point, it's just one of several fruits that Robert comments on to Ned.

The peach is mentioned several times in A Game of Thrones, but it isn't until A Clash of Kings that the idea of peaches, or one particular peach, really stands out in the text. And that is Renly's peach! Peaches are actually mentioned several times in Clash before we get to Stannis and Renly and the peach, but it doesn't really stand out. Or it didn't to me.


The peach seems just a prop in this passage, nothing to worry on, or think that much about. Except ...


Except it bother's Stannis. He thinks about it often, and what it might have meant. "He did what he did. He came here with his banners and his peaches, to his doom ..."

I think he tries to act like Renly brought this on himself, but Stannis is still very bothered by Renly and that peach. And wondering if Renly's words had hidden meaning. I think they did.

One of my personal favorite interpretations I have read is the speculation that the peach is in reference to Highgarden, and in this case Margaery. Stannis seem's aware that Renly might prefer male company, but this idea was that Renly was offering to let Stannis make a baby with Margaery, that Renly could claim as his own, giving Renly an heir and Stannis a son. While I rather like this idea, I think Renly would know that Stannis would never in a million years agree to such a plan. But it's a fun idea.

So what other meaning could the peach have?

I speculated in part one that Renly is Robert's bastard son, probably his eldest child. I am unsure if Renly even knew, but I wonder if he suspected but had no proof. It's possible that Renly never even suspected that Robert could be his father. Even if Renly was not using the peach as a message to Stannis, I think GRRM is using the peach as a message to us, the reader. Pay attention to what the peach means.

Robert tells Ned (and us) that to him the peach means ripe fruit and woman who lose all inhibitions. We know that Robert is fertile, as he has several known bastards, depending on who you ask. Anywhere from seven to sixteen, if the Maggy the Frog prophecy is correct. So woman who lose their inhibitions around a fertile Robert Baratheon soon find themselves bearing children. I think that GRRM is telling us with that peach that Renly is the fruit of Robert's fertility and a women's lost inhibitions. This is a jump, I admit it. There is not a lot of proof, just some wild speculation. But if follow the idea of a peach meaning a child born of lost inhibitions, or as Ned tells us in Game "lusts" that lead to bastards, and you follow the peach around the story, it could lead us to several of Robert's bastards.

But I spent all of Part 1 with Robert and Renly's connection, so I will use part two for other possible bastards of Robert's.

I am not sure how the POV character's fall into this, if they are part of puzzle or just a witness, but when Stannis talks to Renly, Brienne of Tarth, is beside Renly, carrying his standard and protecting his life. Brienne who has startling blue eyes, eyes that are her best feature, eyes that could just as easily be Baratheon blue instead of being related to the Isle of Tarth, the sapphire isle. And Brienne is tall, and muscular and strong. All features that we associate with Robert. And in an SSM, when asked about the heights of some of his taller character's, GRRM gives us this:

Of all of the characters that Brienne is described by GRRM as being closest in height to, it is Robert Baratheon. I have to admit I let this GRRM quote lead me into the idea of Brienne being one of Robert's bastards, and perhaps that is an error on my part. But we know that Brienne is from the Stormlands, and the Isle of Tarth is not that far from Storm's End. We know she had an elder brother who drowned when she was eight. Perhaps Brienne was a child of Selwyn of Tarth's wife and Robert, or perhaps she was a bastard that was placed into the household at Tarth at the request of Robert to his vassal Selwyn of Tarth. My best guess is that Robert got a girl pregnant, and gave her to Selwyn to marry, therefore claiming the child as his own. Any of these is possible. Brienne was never meant to be Selwyn's heir, but all of her siblings died. 

We get a little information on Brienne from Ser Cortney Penrose. "I knew Brienne when she was no more than a girl playing at her father's feet in Evenfall Hall, and I knew her still better when the Evenstar sent her here to Storm's End. She loved Renly Baratheon from the first moment she laid eyes on him, a blind man could see it." Okay, so why did Selwyn send his daughter and heir to Storm's End? Was she a page, which is an odd duty for a girl child, a girl child that had three failed betrothals.  Storm's End is the home of not only Renly, whom she loved, but Robert, our fertile storm lord.

If Brienne is one of Robert's bastards, perhaps this is the reason that Lord Selwyn sent her to Storm's End. This might even fit the timeline for when Edric Storm was born, Robert's only acknowledged bastard, who was raised at Storm's End. Perhaps, Lord Selwyn decided if one of Robert's bastards was to be raised in Robert's traditional home, then why not another? The idea that Brienne was also secretly in love and lust with her half-brother toys with the idea of sibling incest that we get in this story, hinted at with Gendry and Bella, and also Theon and Asha.

Not much evidence, I admit, more wild speculation involved in this whole concept of the peach being a hint to Robert's bastards.

Since I brought up Gendry and Bella, we can look at The Peach brothel in Stoney Sept, which we are told about through Arya's POV. I am not sure how the POV character's fall in with this theory, if they are just window's for the audience to see this concept through, or if they are involved in subtle ways.

The text is pretty explicit in naming Gendry one of Robert's bastards, and I don't think there is much arguing about this in the fan base. Bella is not as readily accepted as a bastard child of Robert, although it seems her story and her timeline fit's the time that Robert spent in Stoney Sept before the Battle of the Bells, as well as the time he spent in The Peach. 

Bella is described as having a head of coal black hair, just like Robert, just like Gendry. I used to think that Bella had blue eyes, but that is not ever stated in the text, as lynn pointed out to me. I certainly had those blue eyes as part of my head canon about Bella, but even without the blue eyes, Bella's time of conception could place Robert as her father, and she does share the same coal black mop of hair that Gendry has in common with Robert. While Gendry and Bella don't have a connection to an actual fruity peach, they both are strongly connected to The Peach brothel, where it seems Robert spent some time. 

Bella also claims that Robert spent time with some of the other prostitutes as well, which could lead to other bastards in or near Stoney Sept. Arya is actually mistaken for a young working girl, which could hint at something that happened in Lyanna's past, but I don't think that has to do with any of Robert's bastards, although there is always the possibility of Jon being Robert's son.

This seem's like a good time to address the possibility of Jon as Robert's bastard. Using my peach idea, Jon has one link in the text to peaches, and it is in Mance's song The Dornishman's Wife.

The Dornishman's wife would sing as she bathed,

in a voice that was sweet as a peach,

But the Dornishman's blade had a song of its own,

and a bite sharp and cold as a leech.

Now, this isn't a lot to go on, but this song does come to us in Jon's POV, sung by Mance. I always thought this song could actually link Ser Arthur Dayne to Jon, as he is one of the more noted men from Dorne in the story. I don't have much more to add to this idea, except that while the idea of Jon being Robert's is not my favorite idea, I won't let myself dismiss it just because I don't favor it as much as other parentage idea's for Jon.

Another person whom the idea of a peach show's up in relation to often in the story is Daenerys. During this parentage reread, I begin to see hints and similarities between Robert and Dany. I have speculated for a long time that the Stormborn aspect of Dany's was a hint, not of a storm at Dragonstone, but that Dany was born either in the Stormlands, or as a bastard of someone from the stormlands. I link Robert to Storm's in this story about as much as I do Dany. During this reread, in Dany's first POV chapter, we get this passage:


Twice in one chapter we are told that Dany needs to "bring out the violet in her eyes", which is odd, if her eyes are indeed a shade of Targaryen purple, which could be violet, lilac or indigo. It seems to me that the reason they wish to dress her in certain colors is to perhaps enhance the color of her eyes. Or perhaps it is to change the appearance of her eyes. If Dany's eye's were a shade of dark blue, could a plum dress make her eyes appear violet?

This bring's me back to the idea of Brienne's brilliant blue eyes. What if Dany's eyes are blue, but only appear to be violet around certain colors? Once people think her eye's are purple, they might see what they want to see. Like I keep thinking Bella has blue eyes, even though that is never stated in the text. Our minds can fool us to see what we want to see, if only we thought we saw it once.

Storm's and questionable eye color are some of my links for Dany to Robert, but Dany has a peach show up several times in her story line.



The first is very reminiscent of how Robert Baratheon might have enjoyed peaches, as much as Dany is enjoying this peach. The second and third remind me of Daenerys becoming a conqueror. Hinting at the Seven Kingdom's falling into her hands like ripe peaches, as well as the man she double-crossed to gain her army, while not trading Drogon, also screams that Dany is ruthless and unafraid to be be a conqueror. Robert was also unafraid to be a conqueror!

This peach connection to Dany and Robert is very loose, but if I combine it with the stormborn hints and the questionable eye color, I think it's possible that Daenerys is Robert's child.  I think this could be one of the reasons that Ned fought so hard to protect Dany from Robert's assassin, because he was trying to protect his best friend from becoming a kingslayer. We know how the gods frown on kinslaying!

Okay, so using this peach idea, I have crazily speculated that Renly, Brienne, Gendry, Bella, possibly Jon and possibly Daenerys are Robert's bastards. To be completely fair, we have two known bastards of Robert, Mya Stone and Edric Storm, who have no peach imagery that I can see. Neither does baby Barra in the brothel, but perhaps the brothel is enough of a connection, even though that brothel isn't known as the peach. Could Barra have been conceived in the Peach and brought to Kings Landing by meddling people, like Littlefinger, perhaps? I think this leaves the hinted at twins of Robert's at Casterly Rock, and we have no imagery at all that surrounds them, or even confirmation of the truth of their births.


There are a few more peach hit's in a text search but for this theory, I am going to leave out the idea of peach-fuzz, which pops up in regard to young men attempting to grow beards. 

The second connection to a peach in our story in order of the narrative, coming four chapter's after Robert first talks to Ned about the joy of peaches, and other southern summer delights, is in Bran's POV, and I admit I am a bit confused by it.

A winter peach? And in Bran's POV. If this came in Jon's story, it would not surprise me at all, but why Bran's? Perhaps this is my clue that I am overthinking the text and there is nothing to this whole peach idea. But, since my pot is already cracked, I am going to go with some more wild speculation. Could Bran in any way be related to Robert Baratheon?

It seems so unlikely, I almost can't wrap my head around the idea. But then I think about Cat's reaction to Ned wanting to take Bran south, and how Cat and Ned has just discussed how none of Robert's bastards were seen or safe at court, and I wonder about why Catelyn clung to the idea of Bran staying at Winterfell so strongly, so strongly that she prayed to the gods that Ned would leave Bran at Winterfell. This is a huge leap, and if Cat and Robert are the parents of Bran, which I can't even really take serious but I am just going along with the flow at this point, then this would mean that Bran has no Stark blood in him.

It seems crazy, but then I think of Bran naming his direwolf pup Summer, and I think of Robert's Summer King imagery, and it does make me wonder just a but. Just a crazy little bit!

As to why I was speculating about POV character's is because Catelyn has one peach image pop up when she is alone, with only her own thoughts.

Catelyn, whom is certainly Bran's mother, unless Bran was snuck into her nursery without her knowledge (as I have tinfoiled up about Arya as the grumkin) is alone in a king's pavillion that is noted to have bowls of peaches. Is there any way possible that Cat and Robert bumped like ships in the night and Bran, sweet Bran with the direwolf named Summer, is the consequence? I hate this idea so much I want to poke my eye out, but if I am going to be fair to the idea that I am trying to establish, I feel I at least need to address the winter peach in Bran's POV.

But, a winter peach? There is no winter imagery in Catelyn or Robert.

But perhaps I am wrong about the peach being indicative of Robert's bastards, and it is just indicative of bastards in general. Then, perhaps, we have the idea of Catelyn and Benjen, which could give us a wintery bastard.  But I hate this for Ned! 

So, could something in Bran's story being telling us something about Jon. Because, as I stated above, if Jon had the winter peach image in his POV, it wouldn't surprise me. It would even nicely fit the idea of Lyanna and Robert having a bastard, winter and summer, a winter peach. But why is this in Bran's storyline? I would love any help anyone could give me on this line of speculation with Bran's winter peach!

Tyrion has a peach show up in his story line a couple times, and I certainly don't think that Tyrion is Robert's bastard, but it's certainly possible that Tyrion is a bastard, if Aerys is actually his father.

This is actually a link more to Varys than to Tyrion, but it's worth noting. Is Varys a bastard? That would not surprise me.

I can't tell if this reference is for Tyrion or Sansa. I have no real feeling one way or another, but to note it's in the text.

Sansa has one peach reference in her own POV.

I have supposed in the past that when Sansa makes the grumkin comment about Arya, sensing that she and Arya are not full siblings, that Sansa is incorrect about which sibling is the bastard, but I honestly find that to be super unlikely. So why Sansa has this peach imagery around her here, I cannot say. Unless, my whole theory is just as wrong as wrong could be.

The last peach reference comes to us from Asha Greyjoy's POV.

Since I cannot see how Asha could be Robert's bastard, although her sexual appetites might be very similar to Robert's, and while I think her age could fit with Renly's age approximately, I don't see how Robert could have snatched some time with Alannys Harlaw Greyjoy. But if this happened, it certainly might have been a reason for Balon to rebel against Robert's rule. But hightly unlikely!

And we don't have enough information on Qarl to speculate, except he can't grow much of a beard, which doesn't sound like Robert. We don't know how old Qarl is, so I suppose he could be Robert's bastard, and the only thing we are really told of Qarl's family is that he is the grandson of a thrall, we have no reference to his parents. So, it's minutely possible that we will find out that Qarl the Maid is Robert's bastard.  The only real connection I can see between the two men would be that they are both said to be fierce warriors.

This story of Asha and Qarl makes me lean more toward the idea of the peach as a symbol of bastardy in the story. After all, Asha and Qarl are lovers, have sex the night that Asha is captured by northmen at Deepwood Motte, and she never has time to drink her moon tea, hinting that she could find herself pregnant. Although, Asha is technically married, I would think any child she bore would be considered a bastard.

So, even if all of these references might not be to Robert Baratheon's bastards, I still think several of these children are. And even if that is not the key, I do think that the idea of the peach, leads to wanton behavior, love and lust, and to bastards.

Really interesting ideas and something that I’ve wondered about off and on for some time without really looking into it. It definitely stands out to me that they left a son as young as Renly at home for such a long trip. Not to mention that IIRC, there would have been an extra incentive for Cassana to have a child at that point, especially had it turned out to be a girl. Aerys was obviously looking for a wife for Rhaegar. As the closest current relative to the King, the child of Steffon Baratheon would be the next best thing to a sister wife. Unfortunately Renly was not a girl. Having a “daughter” married to the Crown Prince seems like a pretty good incentive to claim their son’s bastard as their own.

Also, I just recently read a comment from GRRM, I can’t remember where, maybe Reddit?, that one of the things that GRRM was disappointed to not have D&D include in the show was Renly’s peach. He seems to think it was an important plot point for some reason?

stdaga, looking forward to getting your insight on the Renly's damn peaches.

I have also read this information that GRRM was unhappy that the peach was not included in the scene with Renly and Stannis. I think it has some important meaning that GRRM is trying to convey that perhaps D&D didn't know about, didn't understand or didn't care about.

I hope to get the rest of my thoughts about the peach down soon. I know there are lot's of theories about what the peach could mean, and my idea's are different than those I have read, but it seems many people think the peach does have some special meaning in the story! We might all be wrong about the exact meaning but I do think we are correct about the idea that it hints at something important.

I finally hashed out my thoughts into some form of barely organized thoughts ... and my pot is cracked even more than I had previously thought. Please read Part 2 with an open mind and some laughter in your heart! The more I typed, the crazier it sounded, but I felt I was committed to the speculation that I opened up about that darn peach!

Hahaha! It's super extremely unlikely! I just followed the peach, even when it rolled down into a cracked pot so deep I feared I might not make it out. 

Some of the people with a peach connection are very hard to link to Robert. The whole idea of either Qarl the Maid or Asha Greyjoy being one of Robert's bastards is hard to swallow. Although we don't know much about Qarl.

I still think that the peach is a strong connection between Robert and Renly, who I would almost be shocked to find out, was not Robert's bastard. The irony of Robert having one bastard son raising another bastard son is delicious! And we have several bastards missing, if Maggy the Frog's 16 is to be believed. 

I also think Brienne is super interesting. Those eye's! That height being associated to Robert's, by GRRM the man himself in an SSM seems like he could be trolling us just a bit. And I think he is very capable of that behavior.

It was during this reread that all of the imagery between Robert and Dany hit me like a ton of bricks. It's very possible that the only connection between them is that they are both conqueror's, but I am going to keep my eye on Dany's parentage.  And her eye color situation, where as she needs to wear a certain color to "bring out" the violet in her eyes. If her eyes are already violet, this is unnecessary, unless you are trying to fool someone. Her eyes could be blue, they could be grey! I am leading toward blue! My gut tells me Rhaegar is Dany's father, but some squirrely little part of me wonders if the woman that Robert and Rhaegar battled over at the Trident was Ashara and never Lyanna!

As to Bran, the idea of the winter peach is intriguing, but it's a hard sell, even for my own speculation. If that winter peach had come in Jon's story, I would be all over Robert + Lyanna = Jonno! As to Bran, why does Catelyn not want Bran to go to Kings Landing. She is easily willing to let her daughters go, but  not Bran. She prayed and prayed that he would not go to Kings Landing. Why? Except we do know that Ned has already told us that none of Robert's bastards are allowed at court, because of Cersei! And Cat does not want Bran to go? This is extreme tinfoil, even for me, but I see the sliver of a possibility! That's all I am presenting.

Also, I really think that all 6 Stark children are the children of the Ned's loins. The children who received the direwolves have to have a Stark parent (at least one) and Ned is the most likely Stark. 

Wraith , thanks for reading and commenting. I know the idea is of the variety of tinfoil that is "alive with light" it's so thin, but it's still fun to work through the text and see what shakes loose!