Post by stdaga on May 31, 2018 1:11:15 GMT
As pointed out in another thread, there is not much parentage hinted at in this chapter, at least that I can see. However, there is one passage that hints to me as the anti-RLJ and I thought I would mention it.
The Starks know no music but the howling of wolves.
A lot is made of the howling of wolves. I think all the Stark children are aware of it. We don't get Robb or Rickon in POV, but Robb tells us, and Catelyn, that Bran needs to hear the wolves sing, so Robb is aware of the howling song of the wolves and the Starks. Rickon I have no proof for, but it's hard to imagine that little wild child, so in tune to Shaggydog, not being aware of the song of the wolves.
Sansa is a little harder to consider in this case, as she never thinks about wolves howling, but she did lose Lady very early in the story. Also, while in the Eyrie, Sansa often notes the wind is howling. I wonder if it is the wind, or if that is the song of her pack? Though, she is probably the least Stark of these children, and the song that she seems most drawn to is the songs of bards and musicians.
Arya is most definitely aware of the howling of wolves, both physical and metaphysical. Of this I have no doubt. Other songs play a part in her story as well, but she is not drawn to them or focused on them, I don't think. Bran is also connected in this way, to the direwolves themselves, but the howling of wolves in general. The yet unnamed Summer seemed to try to warn Bran not to climb the tower that day, but Bran couldn't speak the language yet. That is probably something that he will take away from his time with the CotF. That the howling of wolves is another part of the language of the world, one that most people can no longer speak, but that Bran might be the most likely to learn.
And Jon Snow, who is probably the reason that this whole parentage reread was started initially to look at hints into his parentage. Jon looks like a Stark, enough that strangers recognize him for his blood. One of Jon's parents (at least one) had Stark blood. I see no way to dispute that. And Jon has a direwolf as well. Now, Ghost is the quiet wolf, the silent wolf, a white shadow, and he might not sing with his pack, but he can hear them, and lifts his head in song, whether he makes a sound or not. In one dream that Jon has, Ghost does howl in the dream "He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound". Although to be honest, when I read this passage, I am unsure if it ghost that lifts his head in song, or if it is Jon. Even when Jon approaches Bran who lies in a coma, I believe it is the howl of a wolf that gives Jon the strength to enter that room in spite of Cat's harsh and unwelcoming presence.
So, yes, I think the Stark's are aware of the howling of wolves, and it is their song.
Which brings me to the previous generation of Starks's. We are told from Ned himself that Brandon and Lyanna had the wolf blood. Do I know that they heard the song of the wolves howling for a fact. No! But Arya is also of the wolf blood, and she is aware, and I think Brandon and Lyanna were aware too. Benjen tells us he hears direwolves while he is out ranging. I would bet that if the connection needs to be made with a direwolf to help with this bond, Benjen might have developed that ability north of the wall. As to Ned, there is no indication that he is aware of the howling of wolves, but the Quiet Wolf might have been the least vocal of his pack, but like Ghost, I bet that Ned could hear the song of his pack.
The Starks know no music but the howling of wolves.
Years ago I read an interesting thread about how Jon hears singing and music, and how it is everywhere in his story. I was firmly on board the RLJ train at that point, and had no reason to really question it. Last year, I came across that same thread, but my perspective was a bit different. My eyes were looking at the text and hints in new and more open ways. And it occurred to me, that most of the things pointed out in the thread to attempt to connect Jon to Rhaegar were not the concise connections I had once thought. And could just as easily tie Jon to Mance, another singer in our story.
But Rhaegar is known for his song and his harp in this story. Rhaegar singing to high born and peasants, Rhaegar's song making women weep, Rhaegar strumming his silver harp, are things that are probably most commonly associated with him. That and rubies, I would say. How does Rhaegar, so known for his song and his harp and his music, produce a son with a silent direwolf, a son we never hear sing in this story, unless you consider the howl of an otherwise silent direwolf in a dream to be Jon singing.
The one song that Jon seems to be consistently drawn to that is not the song of wolves, is the song of swords. But not of harps! To be fair, he is interested in Ygritte's songs and enjoys her singing, and Mance speaks to him of songs!
But Lyanna was a Stark, Lyanna had the wolf blood, Ned tells us, and the Stark's "know no music by the howling of wolves". For this reason alone, I have a hard time thinking that Lyanna was attracted to Rhaegar or his song. That does not discount a rape situation, but it is the love story that I really question. And if it was rape, then Ned's reactions are pretty vanilla. If Lyanna and Arya are alike, as Ned tells us, then so much of the songs and music that is associated with Rhaegar does not seem like it would draw our wolf-blooded Arya.
To be fair, Sansa might be the one exception to this idea of the Stark's that are drawn to the howling of wolves. And there might be a strong part of Lyanna that is like Sansa, although if we go on Ned's words, it is Arya that is like her aunt. That comparison is never made between Sansa and Lyanna. Although, I think Cersei does at one time describe Lyanna as insipid (and I think of Sansa as insipid, which is perhaps unfair). It could be true, but it's hard to imagine a girl that rode like a centaur and who would even pick up tourney swords against three squires (whether she was good or not) could be considered insipid.
So, while looking at this idea of songs and singing, it seems like it does not connect Jon to Rhaegar, but connects Jon to his Stark roots. Does Jon even hear the song of dragon's in his dreams? I guess it's possible, but we are not told that. While I don't really feel that Jon is really drawn to to songs in the story, I would love to hear some arguments that dispute with my opinion.
And speaking of the songs/music of dragons (which is how first book ends), let's look at Daenerys for a moment. She is drawn to songs, it is in her story line we hear of The Song of Ice and Fire, several times in fact, and the songs of dragons (which she has a front row seat at the dragon concert) but Dany also hears the howling of a wolf. After she has fled Meereen on Drogon's back, in the distance, it is a wolf howl that she hears. It makes her feel lonely and sad. Dany is my wildcard for Stark blood.
The Starks know no music but the howling of wolves.
"And Winterfell?" she asked him. "Have you traveled north?"
"Why would I?" Marillion asked. "It's all blizzards and bearskins up there, and the Starks know no music but the howling of wolves." AGOT-Catelyn V
"Why would I?" Marillion asked. "It's all blizzards and bearskins up there, and the Starks know no music but the howling of wolves." AGOT-Catelyn V
The Starks know no music but the howling of wolves.
A lot is made of the howling of wolves. I think all the Stark children are aware of it. We don't get Robb or Rickon in POV, but Robb tells us, and Catelyn, that Bran needs to hear the wolves sing, so Robb is aware of the howling song of the wolves and the Starks. Rickon I have no proof for, but it's hard to imagine that little wild child, so in tune to Shaggydog, not being aware of the song of the wolves.
Sansa is a little harder to consider in this case, as she never thinks about wolves howling, but she did lose Lady very early in the story. Also, while in the Eyrie, Sansa often notes the wind is howling. I wonder if it is the wind, or if that is the song of her pack? Though, she is probably the least Stark of these children, and the song that she seems most drawn to is the songs of bards and musicians.
Arya is most definitely aware of the howling of wolves, both physical and metaphysical. Of this I have no doubt. Other songs play a part in her story as well, but she is not drawn to them or focused on them, I don't think. Bran is also connected in this way, to the direwolves themselves, but the howling of wolves in general. The yet unnamed Summer seemed to try to warn Bran not to climb the tower that day, but Bran couldn't speak the language yet. That is probably something that he will take away from his time with the CotF. That the howling of wolves is another part of the language of the world, one that most people can no longer speak, but that Bran might be the most likely to learn.
And Jon Snow, who is probably the reason that this whole parentage reread was started initially to look at hints into his parentage. Jon looks like a Stark, enough that strangers recognize him for his blood. One of Jon's parents (at least one) had Stark blood. I see no way to dispute that. And Jon has a direwolf as well. Now, Ghost is the quiet wolf, the silent wolf, a white shadow, and he might not sing with his pack, but he can hear them, and lifts his head in song, whether he makes a sound or not. In one dream that Jon has, Ghost does howl in the dream "He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound". Although to be honest, when I read this passage, I am unsure if it ghost that lifts his head in song, or if it is Jon. Even when Jon approaches Bran who lies in a coma, I believe it is the howl of a wolf that gives Jon the strength to enter that room in spite of Cat's harsh and unwelcoming presence.
So, yes, I think the Stark's are aware of the howling of wolves, and it is their song.
Which brings me to the previous generation of Starks's. We are told from Ned himself that Brandon and Lyanna had the wolf blood. Do I know that they heard the song of the wolves howling for a fact. No! But Arya is also of the wolf blood, and she is aware, and I think Brandon and Lyanna were aware too. Benjen tells us he hears direwolves while he is out ranging. I would bet that if the connection needs to be made with a direwolf to help with this bond, Benjen might have developed that ability north of the wall. As to Ned, there is no indication that he is aware of the howling of wolves, but the Quiet Wolf might have been the least vocal of his pack, but like Ghost, I bet that Ned could hear the song of his pack.
The Starks know no music but the howling of wolves.
Years ago I read an interesting thread about how Jon hears singing and music, and how it is everywhere in his story. I was firmly on board the RLJ train at that point, and had no reason to really question it. Last year, I came across that same thread, but my perspective was a bit different. My eyes were looking at the text and hints in new and more open ways. And it occurred to me, that most of the things pointed out in the thread to attempt to connect Jon to Rhaegar were not the concise connections I had once thought. And could just as easily tie Jon to Mance, another singer in our story.
But Rhaegar is known for his song and his harp in this story. Rhaegar singing to high born and peasants, Rhaegar's song making women weep, Rhaegar strumming his silver harp, are things that are probably most commonly associated with him. That and rubies, I would say. How does Rhaegar, so known for his song and his harp and his music, produce a son with a silent direwolf, a son we never hear sing in this story, unless you consider the howl of an otherwise silent direwolf in a dream to be Jon singing.
The one song that Jon seems to be consistently drawn to that is not the song of wolves, is the song of swords. But not of harps! To be fair, he is interested in Ygritte's songs and enjoys her singing, and Mance speaks to him of songs!
But Lyanna was a Stark, Lyanna had the wolf blood, Ned tells us, and the Stark's "know no music by the howling of wolves". For this reason alone, I have a hard time thinking that Lyanna was attracted to Rhaegar or his song. That does not discount a rape situation, but it is the love story that I really question. And if it was rape, then Ned's reactions are pretty vanilla. If Lyanna and Arya are alike, as Ned tells us, then so much of the songs and music that is associated with Rhaegar does not seem like it would draw our wolf-blooded Arya.
To be fair, Sansa might be the one exception to this idea of the Stark's that are drawn to the howling of wolves. And there might be a strong part of Lyanna that is like Sansa, although if we go on Ned's words, it is Arya that is like her aunt. That comparison is never made between Sansa and Lyanna. Although, I think Cersei does at one time describe Lyanna as insipid (and I think of Sansa as insipid, which is perhaps unfair). It could be true, but it's hard to imagine a girl that rode like a centaur and who would even pick up tourney swords against three squires (whether she was good or not) could be considered insipid.
So, while looking at this idea of songs and singing, it seems like it does not connect Jon to Rhaegar, but connects Jon to his Stark roots. Does Jon even hear the song of dragon's in his dreams? I guess it's possible, but we are not told that. While I don't really feel that Jon is really drawn to to songs in the story, I would love to hear some arguments that dispute with my opinion.
And speaking of the songs/music of dragons (which is how first book ends), let's look at Daenerys for a moment. She is drawn to songs, it is in her story line we hear of The Song of Ice and Fire, several times in fact, and the songs of dragons (which she has a front row seat at the dragon concert) but Dany also hears the howling of a wolf. After she has fled Meereen on Drogon's back, in the distance, it is a wolf howl that she hears. It makes her feel lonely and sad. Dany is my wildcard for Stark blood.
The Starks know no music but the howling of wolves.