1.35 Eddard IX

I guess I am going to go through the chapter in the order that it reads, and I know I am cursed both with ridiculous wordiness as well as tinfoil so shiny it can be seen from outer space, but I am going to try, so very very hard, to stick to parentage.

I understand that people wear gloves, but this action by Ned reminds me so much of Jon, it actually gives me some little chills.

Gloves and hood. Jon is often pulling on his gloves and raising his hood. I have often wondered if Jon uses his hood as a means of protecting himself. I know, it's cold and windy on the wall, but Jon seems to use it as a almost protective mechanism. And perhaps so does Ned.

Here, Ned is using his hood to protect himself from the rain, but also to protect his identity, I would guess. But for Ned, the warm rain seems to remind him of old guilts and that warm rain will eventually make Ned feel soaked to the bone with his soul growing cold.

Jon is often using his hood to protect himself from the elements, but also to hid his youth and inexperience from those around him, and perhaps to hide from himself.

Jon hiding from his brother's and himself as he deserts Castle Black and rides south to join Robb. There are several other incidents of Jon pulling up his hood and pulling on his gloves that remind me of Ned is this scene. I know this doesn't necessarily indicate biologic parentage, but by gosh, I don't know how they can be so alike without being father and son, honestly! Okay, enough Ned and Jon comparisons.



We get Ned's remembrance of Robert's daughter in the vale and his comparison of her to young Barra in the brothel.

Fine, dark hair, like black silk. We are given a description of Barra's mother, with her light red hair and a powdering of freckles. We get no description of Mya's mother, but we do know that when Ned researched the Baratheon/Lannister matches in the past, the coal always won over the gold. We also know that Gendry is black haired and described his mother as yellow haired. It seems like at least with light-headed mother's, Robert's Baratheon black should win out.

Of course, we have Jon with dark hair, dark brown hair, of the Starks. Ned has this hair, Arya has this hair, and Jon has this hair. Dark brown is not black, but I guess that doesn't dismiss Robert completely from being Jon's father based on looks. We don't know what color Lyanna's hair was, and if it was dark, like Ned's, then her dark hair might win out over Robert's black. It's possible.

There is much in this chapter that trigger's thoughts of Lyanna to Ned. One thing is Lyanna questioning that Robert already has a bastard daughter. This seems to make Ned feel guilty in his memories, but doesn't really indicate any parentage. However, we are given the idea that Lyanna might not approve of Robert being so casual about planting his seed, which does hint to me that she might not be very pleased to be a part of Rhaegar, or any mans, casually planting his seed in he field.

We get the warm rain beating on Ned, relentless as old guilts, then the thought of Lyanna questioning Ned about Robert's daughter. Is it the rain that makes Ned feel guilty, or something else? I am inclined to think it's the rain. Ned doesn't strike me as someone who is afraid to get dirty, so why pull his hood up to protect himself from the rain? From clean, warm water? Why feel guilt right after the sensation of warm rain? Something about rain and Lyanna, is bringing up some old guilt's for the Neddard.

Then, Ned goes from thinking of Lyanna, to Robert's young prostitute and how she must have been a virgin. Is this something that Ned know's that Robert likes in a girl, innocence until he has taken it? This reminds me of Robert's anger over Rhaegar's supposed raping Lyanna hundreds of times, and again I find myself suspicious that this is jealousy on Robert's part, that he thinks that Rhaegar had some part of Lyanna that he never had. No sex, no baby!


Ah, the promises that Ned keeps. This passage could be seen as Ned thinking about promises made to people or women in general, but I think it's more specific than that. Ned is thinking of Robert making promises to women who are his lover's, and how those promises would be forgotten before evenfall, while Ned Stark kept his vows. Vow's to who? To some woman who was Ned's lover? If that is the case, then Ned's next thought is of Lyanna, which certainly hints at a possibly shocking relationship between Ned and Lyanna. It's been almost two years since I started considering Starkcest as a viable parentage option, and it still is amazing to me how, once I took my blinders off, I feel like I can see the subtle hints everywhere in the text. Ned and Lyanna! This remembrance scene isn't something that I can just plug in a different Stark for. This is a personal memory, leading from Ned to Lyanna.

Ned thinks of vows to someone he loves, a lover, and his next thought is of Lyanna as she lay dying. Promises he made to her at this moment. Promises to tell someone how beautiful a child is, how the mother was waiting for the father. Now this does hint at Ned not being the father of Lyanna's child (if she had a child) Seriously, I will howl like a wolf if it turns out Lyanna died a maid!

So, if Ned was to tell some father about Lyanna's child, who would that father be? Robert is certainly an option, and this whole memory is triggered by Ned's search and eventual finding of one of Robert's bastards. So, Bobby B is a possibility here, and Ned never told Robert some truth he was hiding. Arthur Dayne is another possibility, I think, and this would indicate to me that either Lyanna died before SAD did, and Ned never had the chance to tell SAD about his child and Lyanna's love, or Ned had already killed SAD, and didn't have the heart to tell a dying Lyanna that he had killed her baby's father.

In this case, some of our other options, such as Mance doesn't work with this idea. Or Brandon either, since he is dead, and Lyanna must have known he and Rickard are dead if she wants to be buried in the crypts near them.

Then, Barra's mother smiles at Ned in a way that he thinks of Lyanna, a smile so sweet and tremulous that Ned feels like his heart has been cut right out of him. THAT is a visceral reaction. Ned feels just like his heart has been cut out, all from Lyanna's smile. And then, Ned thinks of Jon Snow's face (it's odd that he uses Jon's full name, but I guess that needs to be done to distinguish Jon Snow and Jon Arryn to the reader. It is a bit confusing)

However, we get this path of thoughts.
-Lyanna's smile that cut's Ned's heart out then,
-Jon Snow's face which is so like a younger version of Ned's face then,
-God's frowning on bastards but the same gods giving people lusts that create those bastards then,
-Ned dully questions men being filled with lust (his lust, Robert's lust, SAD's lust?) Ned seems to take this very personal. I think he is talking
  about himself.
So I am leaning toward Ned and Lyanna make baby Jon here, until-

-we get Ned asking Baelish about Robert's bastards! Hmmm! Which kind of hints at Jon as Robert's bastard. And I remind myself, as I have in the last several chapters, that when one of Robert's bastards shows up, we then get a thought tied to Jon Snow.

This idea of Jon as Ned's biologic bastard son still has plenty of possible mother's in the works. Lyanna, I have already discussed, but there are hints in the text about Ned and Ashara, and Ned himself names Wylla to Robert (and us) as at least a lover he had in the past, if not his bastards mother, and then there is the fisherman's daughter, whoever the heck she is. I am inclined to think that both Wylla and the fisherman's daughter could be pseudonym's for other character's that are already named, but they might not be either. Of course, I even have some Eddard/Cersei tinfoil in the back of my mind, but nothing here hints at that, although Ned does think of Cersei in relation to Robert's bastards in this chapter, so she certainly is in our mind.

In my mind, we get the idea of lust leading to bastards, and in this case, Jon Snow is named as the bastard and he looks an awful lot like a young Ned. He could look like Brandon Stark as well, or possibly Rickard, so even this thought by Ned doesn't mean Jon IS his own son, it just means he is probably a bastard born of lust that seems to look a lot like Ned. 

So, then we get LF's version of a couple of Robert's bastards. He doesn't mention Barra, but he obviously knows of her, or he could not have led Ned to her. He is from the vale, so he must know of Mya, but he never mentions her. Still, he tells us of Edric Storm, Robert's only publicly acknowledged bastard. So, it seems like Robert didn't go out of his way to claim Edric Storm, as much as Stannis sent the baby to Renly at Storm's End, making it almost impossible for Robert not to acknowledge the child. This really doesn't speak well for Robert at all. I find myself disappointed in him, over and over. Must be how Ned felt!

We also hear about the twins at Casterly Rock. Is this all LF knows of?



Some thing about this, the sideways glance, the rumor's about Cersei, reminds me of a test. Is something about this murder of children by the Lannsiter's meant to trigger a thought or reaction out of Ned? It really doesn't seem to, not like I would suspect if Ned knew of such an incident in the past. Ned grimaces. Sure, he doesn't like the idea, but he's not pissed off or tearing his hair out. It's a pretty passive reaction. What was LF trying to get at?

And, this is a pretty passive reaction from the Neddard, who seems to be usually all in a dither about the death of children. He doesn't really react very strongly to the thought of murdered infant twins. It's odd!

And perhaps these twins don't even exist. The story is a bit unbelievable. Why kill children and not the mother? Why send the mother into slavery?It's like LF is just trying to rile Ned up with things that he thinks will upset him. If these twins truly existed, and they might have, I have no reason to doubt that Cersei would kill the mother has quickly as the children, in truth.

And ... Ned wondering why Jon Arryn is even concerned about these baseborn children? Well, Ned hasn't pieced the twincest together yet, but LF must know. So, Ned doesn't think that Jon Arryn would normally be concerned about these type of children. Is that because Ned knows that Jon Arryn was never concerned before, perhaps about Mya in the vale? Jon Arryn would have to have known about Mya. So, who made sure that Mya was raised at the Gates of the Moon? If it wasn't Robert (he doesn't seem to care) and it wasn't Jon Arryn (whom Ned seems surprised that he is even looking into Robert's bastards) does that mean that perhaps it was a young Eddard Stark who made sure that Mya had a home in the vale? This seems like something Ned would do!    Which makes me think that Ned did have something to do with getting Gendry out of King's Landing.


Soaked to the bone and his soul had grown cold. That is a visceral reaction from Ned. Why?

Even more interesting to me is LF's hints about whores and fishwives. It seems Littlefinger is hinting about something to Ned. Whores and fishwives. We will later see Cersei accuse Ned of his bastards mother being a whore, and by gosh, at times, Ned is very touchy about the subject of whores. But this doesn't get any reaction from Ned.  Nor does the fishwives concept, which actually makes me think of the fisherman's daughter, but also Robert mentioning to Ned way back in Eddard I that Robert had bedded a fishmaid once, which also makes me think of the fisherman's daughter. Who was she, which one of them was tilling that field, and what child belongs to her? Perhaps Robert has spent time with more than one fishmaid in his days?

Then we get the one Rhaegar reference in this chapter.

Despite the oddity of Ned claiming he hadn't thought of Rhaegar in years, even though in the last several months Ned has talked to Robert about him several times, Ned seems to assume that Rhaegar would not spend time in brothels. Now, this doesn't mean that Rhaegar might not have a bastard some where, but it does seem to indicate that he didn't get that bastard in a brothel, if he has one. Also, just by the lack of knowledge on Rhaegar, it does indicate that Ned probably doesn't think of him much, and by gosh, I think if you are raising the princes' bastard son, you would think about the man most every time you set eyes on that bastard child. Okay, to be fair, Ned doesn't think of Jon much, either. But honestly, the majority of the time that Rhaegar comes up in Ned's thoughts, it's related to Robert and his hatred. Jon doesn't come up on those occasions ... but at least on one occasion, Daenerys does!

So, this chapter doesn't completely dismiss Rhaegar as a possibility as Jon's father, but I do think it lesson's the odds. Still, it waves a flag a little bit in the fact that Rhaegar even comes into Ned's thoughts at a time like this. The idea of Robert's  bastards lead's Ned to question if Rhaegar would spend time in brothels is more than vague, but could be translated into thinking of Robert's bastards makes Ned think of Rhaegar as a sewer of bastards, and Jon is pretty closely connected to this thought. 

Damn it GRRM!!! When you decided to be vague and play with the readers thoughts, you didn't mess around!!!

Thank's for this! All the information in this chapter has had my head spinning in all directions, which is one reason for my long delay. It helped me along with my thoughts, and with new equipment it should be along shortly! 

Maybe I should reread it myself. Feeling pretty stuck on the Starkcest thing, but kingmonkey isn't exactly any help on that front.

S+L=J (Yes. That's right. Be afraid).

stdaga , wonderful analysis!


I was about to say "He must!" because not only is KL far warmer than the Wall, Ned is also thinking about how warm the rain is. But then I remembered that people often put on gloves before riding horses. The reigns can wear on your hands even in good weather, and in rainy (like KL) or windy (like the Wall) conditions, it would be far more comfortable to wear gloves. 


"...warm as blood and relentless as old guilts" is a good line. I think it hints at another circumstance of Jon's birth. 

It isn't a pleasant thought experiment, but imagine you are looking down at a pregnant woman who is dying. Maybe she's your 16 year old sister...

She's afraid, but that is the only time she can be brave... She is dying and she wants to save the baby. She wants to be laid to rest beside your father and brother. 

It is unbearably painful, but love and duty overcome that pain. 

You give her your word, and instantly the fear leaves her eyes. She knows you will keep your promises. 

You draw your blade and she smiles. A smile so tremulous and sweet that it tears your heart out, as you tear out the child that has filled her heart with this bravery beyond her years. 

She gives up her hold on life, but you do not. 

I think this is what "...warm as blood and relentless as old guilts" is about here. Ned is already thinking of Lyanna before GRRM puts us in his head. I have a feeling he's been thinking of her ever since his previous chapter.

Why?

Well that's the one when Ned resigned as Hand because Robert had consented to killing a pregnant teenager and her unborn child.

That idea was a bridge too far, for Ned.  


LOL! No, we want more!


Preach!

I can see Lyanna now:





Makes sense. Ned did comment that he was once muscled like a maiden's fantasy, and GRRM likes to turn fantasy into harsh reality. 


It is. And I agree. Ned and Lyanna. Lyanna and Ned...

But I think that intimacy might have been borne of Lyanna's deathbed, rather than her sex-bed. 


I'll howl right along with you!


Benjen is another possibility. 


I think Brandon still works, even if Lyanna knew he was dead... and maybe even moreso with her knowing he was dead. 

Imagine if Lyanna had told Ned, as she faded away, "He looks so like Brandon, does she not, Ned? He has his nose, and his hair …"

After all, at this moment Ned is experiencing a young mother's voice, speaking of a bastard sired by a lustful man whom Ned calls "brother". 

I have a feeling this moment strikes Ned as such a parallel because he's seen this story before, with another lustful brother. 


Another great catch – Ned using Jon's full name. I don't think it's a necessity, because of the context (his face looking like a younger version of Ned's own. Jon Arryn was much older than Ned, and he's been dead for a while at the time of this thought).

This word choice shows a formality and distance between Ned and infant Jon that should be expected. Regardless of who Jon's father is, Ned will only have met Jon after he was born.

The act of naming Jon would likely have been yet another bittersweet ordeal for Ned. And there is a SSM floating around somewhere in which GRRM states that Ned did indeed name Jon Snow.

I suspect Lyanna died before she knew Jon's sex. 


It does. And, as markg171 is wont to point out, Ned+Wylla is canon and perfectly acceptable for Jon's storyline. 

But, what markg171 and other Ned+Some Woman advocates tend to dismiss, is the 1993 letter. GRRM had the secret of Jon's parentage on the brain in the earliest days of dreaming up this series. 

And what literary purpose would the secret of Jon's parentage serve? 


So the secret of Jon's parentage, once revealed, will cause Jon and Arya to longer feel tormented about their half-siblinghood, and accept their passion for one another. 

No true king. No Azor Ahai. No Sword of the Morning.

Nope. Jon's parentage, once revealed, will allow for some good old-fashioned Westerosi incest.

Wylla doesn't do that, nor does Ashara. And, it should be noted, the 1993 letter accompanied "the first thirteen chapters" of A Game of Thrones, which implies GRRM had already penned the Wylla and Ashara red herrings at the time of the letter. 


Yup. More than a lot, though. 

People react to Jon as if he is a clone of Eddard's younger self. Like a long lost twin half his age...

It's so bad that Jon is recognized as a Stark outside of the country!

Tyrion, who has experience with such clones, nailed Jon's parentage the first time he saw him. 

The only question that remains, for me, is which Stark impregnated Lyanna, and I think this chapter points most strongly toward Brandon – a man the gods filled with lust. Per Ned's own conscience, that is not a charge that could be laid at the door of Eddard Stark, nor Rhaegar Targaryen. 


Considering that Ned is married to Catelyn Tully, I don't think it's that odd. He can understand and rationalize how women are cruel to other women's children, and he never expects ethical behavior from Lannisters.

I mean, the guy's son was recently tossed from a window. Infanticide is almost as common as incest in Westeros.  


I don't know what to make of the story of the fisherman's daughter, other than GRRM attempting to create more red herrings for Ned to bed.

Dude already had a cold trout at home, so I don't know why he would cheat on her with a red herring. 


X marks the spot. 

If it looks like a Rhaegar+Ashara bastard, and quacks like a Rhaegar+Ashara bastard... it's a Duckerys.

GRRM wants to make us smack ourselves for not seeing it clearly before. 

And the same goes for uber-Stark Jon. 


To the contrary, Ned thinks of Robert as a sewer of bastards and contrasts that sewing hobby with Rhaegar's lack of it. 

I feel as if I have been away for ever. Perhaps the break will have allowed my mind to regroup some. My brother took a trip down a flight of stairs, ass over tea kettle a couple weeks ago, ended up with an open tib-fib fracture and head and neck injuries. It was 8 days in the hospital five hours from home and while I thought I could do some reading with all the wait time, I found my mind was not going to cooperate. However, I am ready to get back into the discussion now.


That is the thread that actually brought me to this board a couple years back. Once my mind was ready to really consider the concept, then I was searching all over the internet for other thoughts on the subject.


Thanks! I have to say that going through this chapter left me rather drained. There are so many possibilities and complicated thoughts and actions going on in this chapter, it's A LOT to process!

BTW voice , nice to see you back in action!


I noted the gloves and hood thing as almost a part of Jon being who he is. It's something that the author does with Jon very often. For some reason, this time around, Ned doing the glove and hood thing almost felt like a right hook to the jaw.

I do agree that it makes sense to put gloves on before riding, and we have a few other examples of Ned riding, but only twice is Ned noted to be wearing gloves. Once putting them off and once putting them on. Actually, gloves only come up in Ned's POV four times. Two times are in relation to himself, once to Robert and once to Littlefinger and Varys. The first time is when Ned notes that Robert is wearing gloves, and one of those times, Robert also has a hood pulled up over his head.


I had come to think that the gloves and hood imagery in Jon's story could be related to Robert, so for me, it was exciting to connect this action to Ned. Robert also has some bear imagery in this text and Jon is given a sword by a bear, a sword meant for a son. I certainly can't count Robert out as the seed donor for baby Jon!

When first arriving in King's Landing, Ned does remove his riding gloves, so it's possible that this action of doning gloves in this chapter is only about the proper attire for riding, and not a clue at all!

As to the hood, that is odder. Perhaps Ned is using it to hide his identity, but if he want's to hide, he should be in disguise in the brothel, as well as out on the street. So, it's the rain that Ned is covering himself from, I guess. But is Ned afraid of rain? Doubtful. You might be very correct when you say that perhaps this idea of warm rain is a trigger to a painful memory for the Neddard, one he wants to protect himself from, or hide himself from.

An interesting thought on warm rain that struck me in this reread that when Cat is at the crossroads, before she kidnaps Tyrion, she relishes the feeling of the warm rain, and how it brings back warm memories of her childhood and home at Riverrun, and she won't wear her hood, even when Ser Rodrik prompts her too. Here, Ned wants nothing to do with the warm rain, covers himself from it. It makes me think again of how different Ned and Catelyn are, and how perhaps they really didn't adapt to each other as well as we might think. Still, the warm rain seems to have lead both Cat and Ned into making mistakes, or at least allowed them to be apart of important turns in the story involving a Lannister sibling.


Ahh, yes, the coup de grace! I do think it's possible that Ned did have to put Lyanna out of her misery, and even perhaps deliver her child while he did so, although the c-section I am less convinced of. It seems to me that Robert is the one caught up with concern for Daenerys' pregnancy, while Ned seems to think only of Dany as a child, with no real thought about her pregnancy. Although, Robert does mention dragonspawn, but Ned does not seem concerned about this.

However, it could relate back to how Ned might feel about Lyanna's child if it was dragonspawn, but that doesn't seem to trigger thoughts of Jon, only a continued conversation of Dany. Which is why I am inclined to think that Dany probably is Rhaegar's child, in spite of all the lovely tinfoil I have tried to weave into a silver storm cloth about Dany being Robert's child.

Still, this very conversation with Ned and Robert is one of the things that supporters of RLJ use to help with proof of Prince Silverstring and the Wolf Maid begetting Jon Snowflake!


I swear I feel like every time I see a new similarity between Jon and Ned that there must be a million eyes rolling back into their heads! Ha! I see it everywhere, though!

 
Bahahaha! That is a nice image! It's FULL of meaning!


It could be. The hardest part to imagine about Ned and Lyanna hooking up is Ned's image as a staid and grim tight ass getting busy with his sister!





Benjen is possible, I can't deny it. And we don't really know how much younger than Lyanna he was, but it certainly could be that he was old enough to get the job done. There are some things that lead me to think Benjen planted the y-seed. The way that Benjen ruffles Jon's hair in Jon's first chapter is so intimate it's hard to ignore. Something a father might do more than an uncle. We don't really know what Benjen looks like, or even if he has the Stark look, but I would think that Benjen would be the Stark that Craster is most familiar with, and Craster recognizes Jon as a Stark right from the start. Benjen also hints of bastards. But if Jon is Benjen's bastard, and the mother isn't important (since Ned never names her to his people), then why did Ned not just tell the truth and say that Jon was Benjen's son and still not name the mother? It's a major hang up for me!


Depending on how the time line works out, when Brandon died and when Jon was born, Brandon could be the most likely candidate. Brandon and Lyanna and that darn wolf blood!!! It seems like Brandon and Ned must look something alike, although Brandon was taller and Ned was plainer, but they both have the grey eyes. Jon could very much look like Ned because Ned and Brandon looked similar. And I think there are many parallel's between Robert Baratheon and Brandon Stark, so Brandon littering the world with bastards like Robert does is very possible. Jaime also draws a parallel to himself and Brandon Stark, while distancing himself from Ned. However, I think Jaime and Ned are more alike than it seems. Jaime wants to be honorable, he wants to make good choices, he wants to serve as justice bringer in the riverlands. Those are traits of Ned's that Jaime is emulating, not something we have been told about Brandon Stark!

But if we consider Brandon, then I still consider Rickard as a slight possibility. We are given the concept of father-daughter incest with Craster, and plays a large role in Jon's storyline. Still, the first type of incest the story gives us is the Targaryen sister-brother incest, and we quickly transition to the Jaime-Cersei sibling incest story. So, sibling incest is still my preferred type Starkcest! Eeech! What the hell is wrong with me that I find this so easy to discuss anymore!? 

The idea of sibling incest fit's the story so well, I will admit to being surprised if Brandon, Eddard or Benjen is not Jon's father and Lyanna the mother. If it turns out NOT to be the case, I might even consider that GRRM missed a grand opportunity in storytelling to make much of the fandom squirm and moan in dispair!!!


Yes, GRRM does seem to give Ned credit for naming Jon. Here's the SSM link and quote:

Mothers can name a child before birth, or during, or after, even while they are dying. Dany was most like named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned.

But still, he is tricky in his answers, using the wording "most like" to give him some wiggle room if this turns out not to be the exact truth.

When you mention the formality of Ned thinking of Jon as Jon Snow, that is very interesting. It does seem to set a distance between Jon and Ned but I am not sure what it means. It has made me reread the exchange in Bran I between Jon and Ned, where Jon first calls Ned "father" in an excited and casual and very natural way (when they first found the direwolf pups and Ned then referring to Jon and Robb as his "sons"). Then, later in that chapter, we hear Jon very formally call Ned "Lord Stark". Then, Ned refers to Jon thrice as "Jon" is a soft and affectionate way, and pretty informal. That chapter ends with Bran referring to Jon as Jon Snow and he notes the chilling look that Jon directs at Theon.

Truly, I think it could be another similarity between Jon and Ned. Both carry different names and persona's, depending on what is needed in the situation. Casual versus formal versus an extension of power. Lord Stark, Lord Snow. Ned and Jon. Eddard Stark and Jon Snow. Perhaps the problem is that I just can't stop seeing the similarities between Jon and Ned. Bran and Cat seem to note this persona change in Robb, as well.

As to Lyanna being dead before Jon was born, I think if Ned cut the child from her womb, she might have still has a moment for Dr Eddard to call out "it's a boy", but I would agree that there was no time for Lyanna to have named the child. I still think the connection for Jon's first name lies with the King Jon Stark who built the Wolf's Den in White Harbor, and I think that Lyanna and Ned will have a link to the Wolf's Den and the heart tree in that castle! That is perhaps my own version of fan fiction!


Honestly, that is how I interpret that too. It was okay for the Targaryen's, we will come to see that our two surviving Lannister incest babies (so far, they are alive) Tommen and Myrcella are decent humans and Jaime even thinks at one point that he will have Tommen and Myrcella marry publicly, giving us one more generation deep of Lannister-cest. Why not interpret this as a clue to the future of the Stark's?


Well, it does seem like Brandon Stark and Robert Baratheon fit a certain "type" of loud, lustful and brash, and who might be the Johnny Appleseed's of their respective north and south. So, if Brandon was planting seeds as the King of Winter even while he was just a prince under his father's rule, then it does fit that Jon could be Brandon's. I do see it as a strong possibility. And it still leaves Ned as not stumbling into the black pool of incest that many of our character's have, and I do think there will be a huge outcry from the fandom if Ned is linked to incest in a personal way. GRRM's vagueness of the timeline as left the door for Brandon as the father to be the outcome.

Okay, yikes, we have a storm rolling in and the power just browned out, so I am going to post this first part, and come back to the rest in a moment. I just hate hate hate to lose all my work!