Post by shymaid on Jul 22, 2018 22:18:48 GMT
Ahhh, the implication that LF puts forth is fairly obscene, but I do wonder if LF has some suspicions. As you point out, Ned does get a bit prickly here, and shut's down LF's line of conversation. Is it just because Ned doesn't want to hear such foul language? Or is it more. Early in this chapter, Ned notes that one of his men is partaking in some "strip poker", another is admiring the skin revealing show, and one has been out in the stables with his pants unbuttoned. And Ned doesn't seem upset out this activity, which makes me think Ned is no prude. So the words that LF spoke affected him personally. Fuck with the kings... so, like a surrogate cock of kings? Your mention of Neddard fucking in the kings place is pretty interesting as Ned does seem affected by these words. Prickly! Is that a play on words! Prick-prickly! That is telling us something, I think. And who did Robert want to fuck more than any other woman in this story, why yes, Lyanna Stark! The woman the Ned loved with all of his heart! The woman that Ned made promises to, the woman the Ned still brings flowers to when he can. The implication is very interesting, I agree.
To me it seems like Lf is on a fishing trip in this chapter, starting with this question. (Right now I'm not sure I made that point in my post... Mayhaps I need to read my own post... ) And yes, it is quite obcene!
And you do point out one contradiction in the text when it comes to Ned; it seems most think of him as a prude, but he's really not. And another example is Jory's reaction to the order of searching the brothels for this girl, if his boss frowned upon these things he'd probably not give a huge grin and almost rubbing his hands in anticipation. Sidenote: this reminds me of Ned's comment when sending his men to help keep the order during the tourney, of his men is meant to stop fights, not start them! Just love that!
I do wonder if Ned recognized it as prodding into his bastard's origin, and so this could be the easy explanation for him shutting it down at once. Can't be ignored. But as you say, the implication from LF is that Ned had his way with his sister, which also can't be ignored... After seeing this, it colored the way I read this chapter to the end; hard to unsee and all.
I might never read "prickly" the same way, ever again...
This might be the one thing that Catelyn would not forgive him for, I think. Not just a bastard by any woman, even high born, but a bastard by incest. Cat makes it very clear where her thoughts lie on incest ... Abomination! "I need none of your absolution, bastard" might become "I need none of your absolution, abomination!"
Oh, her reaction would be epic! Also, it's one of the few reaction to the view of non-Targaryen incest bastardy we get, and that might tell us something.
"I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men." It does take another meaning when seen in this light, that's for sure!
Perhaps it was something very like this! Nice!
Thanks! This chapter is brimming with potential echoes/parallells/inversions from the past with Lyanna and toj etc I almost lost my track!
It would make Ned's feelings that much stronger if this is the case. What he might have brushed off as a small mishap having huge ramifications for all involved!
I don't get the impression that Ned feared for himself from Robert, not even when he totally pissed Robert off over Dany's assassination orders. But perhaps Ned does fear for Jon if he comes south. If Robert spent enough time around Jon, could he see Lyanna in Jon? Would he see Ned in Jon? Or even Brandon or Benjen? (did Robert know Brandon very well?) Would Robert suspect that Ned, whom he declares "never the boy you were" would have a sexual relationship with his sister? I almost doubt that Robert would ever suspect such a thing. But perhaps if the right people whispered in his ear, he might be led into suspicion. I just can't decide either way.
Well, Robert probably wouldn't look into it any further, he's not one for digging up secrets. So any similarity he'd see in Jon - to any Stark - would probably be dismissed as familial. And he's so locked into his hatred of Rhaegar, he's not likely to be able to see anything past that in any case. His bestie banging his betrothed that is also his sister? No way!
So it's clearly others Ned fear (no pun intended) to take a peak. We see he can shut it down with Robert, he's well aware of and expecting the rumors of him and Ashara and the uglier ones we see from Cersei, and here we see him shut down LF several times. With Jon not there, he's able to manage this as few are asking questions. With Jon there, it would be all but impossible. "Someone always tells." The truth might come out, or a whole host of rumors, which could be hard to handle.
I agree that Robert might not be the threat, as I doubt he'd listen to stories like this, but even as king he's not all-powerful. Even if he didn't do anything, others might. Like we see in the last bit in this chapter. Robert might not be able to protect Ned and/or Jon, even if he wanted to. Also, if he is engulfed sordid rumors, his position (and House Stark) would be weakened. Even as a non-ambitious LP, he'd probably see the downsides of that.
It's also possible that if Robert is Jon's father by Lyanna, that if Robert spent enough time with Jon, he might see himself in Jon. Another reason to keep Jon from coming to court.
Yes, it's possible. I just hate to admit it...
But why? The million dollar question! For some reason Ned feels VERY strongly that Jon cannot come to court. Or at least than he cannot come south!
If Catelyn II is anything to go by, his fear seems to be mostly of the effect it would have on Jon. His arguments are that he'd be treated badly, but that doesn't hold up on scrutiny. Still, I don't get the feeling he fears that much for his physical safety, but most of all what Jon would think and feel. Maybe... It's so frustratingly hard to say!