Post by stdaga on Aug 8, 2018 23:22:36 GMT
While trying to stick to parentage during this reread has become a bit of a challenge for me, I will say. I seem to have fallen into a pit where almost everything I read or interpret any more seems to hint at parentage. A double edged sword? Here goes with Bran V and I will try to keep it as tight as I possibly can.
The first quote is from the opening of the chapter, the second about midway. Bran notes snow melting on his own face like rain, as well as notes the snow melting on Robb's face. This of course brings to mind Jon seeing snow melting in Robb's hair and his poignant memories of it in Dance, when he is sending Sam to Old Town. I had always questioned if this indicated that Samwell would die before Jon ever saw him again. There is something about this snow melting that has a fatalistic quality to it.
Of course, we know Robb's fate at the Red Wedding. Two other Stark's have incidents where rain comes down on them, until they are soaked. Catelyn just prior to her kidnapping of Tyrion and Ned just before Jaime's men attack him in the streets. While Cat relishes the warm rain, and Ned thinks of blood and old guilt, we know they both ultimately die.
Could this be a hint at Bran's fate as well? That has nothing to do with Bran's parentage, but it brings to mind Samwell Tarly. Sam also has snow melting in his hair. Could this hint to us that not only he will die, but that he is perhaps of Stark blood? Ghost and Summer, the two direwolves that Sam has come across, seem to like him. Ghost licks tears off of Sam's face and Summer licks Sam's hand. It's a warm reaction, and the only other person I remember the direwolves licking besides one of the Stark children is Catelyn, and that is while Summer licks the blood from her hands after the catspaw attack. It stands out to me that Sam has some sort of gentle connection to at least two of these wolves, or they have it to him. Why?
Another possible hint at Bran's fate, which again has nothing much to do with parentage is this passage:
We know Robb was betrayed and murdered at the Red Wedding, and to reach the Twins, there were several times they had to ford rushing streams to reach the twin castles on the bank of the Green Fork. And then Robb dies. Here, we have Robb crossing the stream, and then he came back and lead Bran across the stream as well. Bran smiles, he feels whole again! Crossing streams also has the symbolism of death. Is this stream symbolically like the River Styx, and Robb plays the roll of Charon for himself and Bran, leading first himself across the water, and then eventually coming back for Bran. And in this moment, Bran feels strong and whole. Perhaps I am seeing far to much symbolism in this, but I really wonder if this also foreshadow's Bran's death? And a freedom of sorts that comes with death.
There is so much lovely foreshadowing in this chapter, such as "It was nice under the trees" from Bran, and when last we see Bran, he is living and learning in Bloodraven's cave under the tree's, tangled up in the roots of the weirwood.
Is this a hint of what might be watching through the eyes in the tree's. Not the wierwoods in this case, but other eyes. A black squirrel and an empress spider. The black squirrel could hint at Bloodraven, I think, but the empress spider makes me curious. Varys is often called a spider and it's a big part of his arc, but here we have a female spider. So, does that hint that there is someone else watching through that web (the web makes me think of Old Nan knitting) or is it a not to Varys actually being a female? Is this a hint at House Webber. I do have some tinfoil about Rohanne Webber being Old Nan, or could it tie Varys to House Webber? Just toying with ideas a bit. And if you squint at it, and turn your head sideways, this could hint at parentage, or at least blood connections in the story.
Ah, finally a parentage hint, perhaps.
This association of fury and Robb's eyes brings to mind Ned. Several times in the story, we are told that Ned has some fury in him. Cat see's that Ned's "fury was on him" when talking about sending Jon to the wall, Ned himself thinks of his fury being on him, and he once dismounts his horse in fury. He also has that moment of "red rage" which is not exactly fury, but it ain't calmness, either.
So, even though we are told that Robb doesn't look much like Eddard, are we to think that perhaps there is more of Ned is Robb that we think? I myself have wondered about Robb's father actually being Brandon, but here, in this instant, the text seems to connect him to Eddard. I still see Brandon as a possible father for Robb, depending on the time line.
There is all sorts of lovely teasing and hints in this passage of smoothness and flight and cloaks billowing in the wind, but I want to look at the horse riding abilities we have on display here. Robb was well ahead, which could indicate he is a superior rider, or has some deep connection to his horse, which is how the text hints to us about Brandon and Lyanna being like centaurs. Could this hint at Brandon as the father of Robb?
But then Bran picks up the pace and he catches Robb by the time they reach the forest. Both seem to have enjoyed the ride, but it does stand out to me that even a crippled Bran has managed to catch up to Robb on horseback. Robb even teases that Bran would win in a race. This brings to mind Jon and Robb racing in Bran's first POV, but also brings to mind Ned riding with Robert in the barrowlands. At first, it seems that Ned cannot keep pace with Robert, but when he truly wants to, it seems like Ned can keep pace with Robert just fine.
So, does this hint that all of the Stark's have this ability? Is this Bran catching up with Robb supposed to echo Ned catching up to Robert? We are never told about Rickon's riding skills, and Sansa says that horses smell and she would rather ride with the queen, but Sansa does go hawking with Margaery, and seems to enjoy that ride just find. We know that Arya can ride well, and I think it's implied that Jon also is a good rider. I don't know if it means anything about parentage, since even if Robb is Brandon's, Ned and Brandon seem to have this talent for riding.
And now a little tinfoil, because I just can't help myself. Let's take a peek at Theon.
For a long, long time, even way back when the world was simple and I though RLJ was the answer, I always hesitated when I thought of Theon and his connection to Winterfell and the Stark children. After my very first read of Game, I tried to tie Theon to being a Stark bastard. Brandon seemed the most likely, but I never figured how I could get Brandon in bed with Alannys Harlaw Greyjoy. I even imagined if Brandon was riding the rills, could he just hope a boat to the Iron Islands and shag Balon's wife? Doubtful, but still I wondered. There is a lot we don't know about Brandon.
Rickard is worth considering, although we seem to know less about him than we do about Brandon. Possible, I suppose!
I also wondered about Ned, although, if Theon is 19-20 at the start of our story, and Ned is 35, then I have to give Ned props for being as horny as Robert Baratheon at a young age and having a bastard by 15, and I have to work even harder to connect Ned to Alannys. One thing that always teased me about this idea is that this would mean Ned took Alannys child away from her, his own bastard but still, he would have stole her child, and that hints at one Cersei accuses Ned of with Ashara Dayne. Also, I really liked the idea that Ned planted not just one, but two, of his bastards right under Catelyn's nose, and I got some evil pleasure out of this, no lie. Weirdly, Alannys name does bring to mind Lyanna's name, as its an anagram of sorts.
But neither Brandon nor Ned nor Rickard really makes much sense in the story, except it does connect Theon to Winterfell, and his want to be part of Winterfell, in the same way that Jon wants to be part of Winterfell, to be the Lord of Winterfell. But, as the years went by, I let that tinfoil die, while picking up other tinfoil decorated banners.
But still, there is something about Theon that hints skinchanger to me. Perhaps it was the bond he had with his horse, Smiler! (I see what you are doing, GRRM) and how when Smiler died, the last brutal memory has is of Smiler screaming and with his mane a flame, and then Theon blacks out, which seems to be what happens to Varamyr when his eagle burst into flames. Vararmyr loses his shit, his mind and several of his animals, and Theon also seems to loose his mind. So, if Theon is a skin changer, where does it come from?
And, while reading this chapter again, (three times since last week), I really started to think on Theon's smile. And you know who is associated with smiling, rather often, actually? No, not Daario although he certainly smiles for Dany...
Euron Fooking Greyjoy! The Crows Eye!
Euron smiles a lot. And it's not always a nice smile. Sometimes it's not even an actual smile, but with his "smiling eye" as Victarion refers to it. But once I looked at it, I had a hard time looking away. Euron smiles a lot, Theon smiles a lot.
Or course, a smile isn't everything, but what we do know about Euron is he seems to be willing to spread his seed about, almost as much as dear Robert Baratheon. Euron has several "mongrel" bastards, and he was actually banished from the Iron Islands for either raping or seducing (who knows, he's kind of a hottie bad boy) Victarion's salt wife and getting her pregnant. What if Victarion wasn't the only brother that Euron decided to cuckold? Give the horns to, so to speak. What if he did the same thing to Balon and his wife Alannys? What if Balon always suspected what happened with Euron and Alannys, and used his suspicion with knowledge, since Victarion didn't keep it a secret when he beat the poor woman to death, and used this as his excuse to punish Euron? Lot's of speculation, of course ...
Now, I have some tinfoil that Euron is a skinchanger. That he either is the three eyed crow or is at least working for him/her, or was corrupted by the 3EC. This could give Theon a skinchanger gene. It could let Euron or the 3EC into Theon's dreams. Theon has some pretty terrible dreams at Winterfell, and I am not convinced it's because he was sleeping in Ned's bed or that the bed was made of weirwood. It could be, but it might not be, also.
That is probably enough tinfoil about this, but one thing this chapter showed me, was that GRRM is bringing attention to Theon and his smile for a reason. Perhaps this is the reason?
Creepy or what? 
Okay, really, I am done with the Theon/Euron tinfoil, but I just liked the pictures to much not to share!
And a little none parentage stuff that tempted me, even if it doesn't pertain to parentage:
Any idea's on what this could hint at? I am torn between thinking that Jon will give his life, in place of Bran's at some point of the story. Or, Bran will be expected to return the favor, and give something to Jon, something important. Life, perhaps, or blood? A dragon? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Why does the wolf named Summer have a howl that is like a cold wind? Cold winds make me think of the Other's, and whatever cold breath inhabits the Winterfell crypts. Hmmm!
The white and red connection always brings the weirwoods to mind, and in this case, it is the water that is white and it becomes red with blood. Perhaps this is a little blood sacrifice to the gods of the rocks and streams and the forest, such as Varamyr's mother was told by the woods witch?
A light snow was falling. Bran could feel the flakes on his face, melting as they touched his skin like the gentlest of rains. He sat straight atop his horse, watching as the iron portcullis was winched upward. Try as he might to keep calm, his heart was fluttering in his chest. AGOT-Bran V
"The message was from Alyn in King's Landing. Jory Cassel is dead. And Wyl and Heward as well. Murdered by the Kingslayer." Robb lifted his face to the snow, and the flakes melted on his cheeks. "May the gods give them rest." AGOT-Bran V
The first quote is from the opening of the chapter, the second about midway. Bran notes snow melting on his own face like rain, as well as notes the snow melting on Robb's face. This of course brings to mind Jon seeing snow melting in Robb's hair and his poignant memories of it in Dance, when he is sending Sam to Old Town. I had always questioned if this indicated that Samwell would die before Jon ever saw him again. There is something about this snow melting that has a fatalistic quality to it.
Of course, we know Robb's fate at the Red Wedding. Two other Stark's have incidents where rain comes down on them, until they are soaked. Catelyn just prior to her kidnapping of Tyrion and Ned just before Jaime's men attack him in the streets. While Cat relishes the warm rain, and Ned thinks of blood and old guilt, we know they both ultimately die.
Could this be a hint at Bran's fate as well? That has nothing to do with Bran's parentage, but it brings to mind Samwell Tarly. Sam also has snow melting in his hair. Could this hint to us that not only he will die, but that he is perhaps of Stark blood? Ghost and Summer, the two direwolves that Sam has come across, seem to like him. Ghost licks tears off of Sam's face and Summer licks Sam's hand. It's a warm reaction, and the only other person I remember the direwolves licking besides one of the Stark children is Catelyn, and that is while Summer licks the blood from her hands after the catspaw attack. It stands out to me that Sam has some sort of gentle connection to at least two of these wolves, or they have it to him. Why?
Another possible hint at Bran's fate, which again has nothing much to do with parentage is this passage:
The stream was running high and fast. Robb dismounted and led his gelding across the ford. In the deepest part of the crossing, the water came up to midthigh. He tied his horse to a tree on the far side, and waded back across for Bran and Dancer. The current foamed around rock and root, and Bran could feel the spray on his face as Robb led him over. It made him smile. For a moment he felt strong again, and whole. He looked up at the trees and dreamed of climbing them, right up to the very top, with the whole forest spread out beneath him. AGOT-Bran V
We know Robb was betrayed and murdered at the Red Wedding, and to reach the Twins, there were several times they had to ford rushing streams to reach the twin castles on the bank of the Green Fork. And then Robb dies. Here, we have Robb crossing the stream, and then he came back and lead Bran across the stream as well. Bran smiles, he feels whole again! Crossing streams also has the symbolism of death. Is this stream symbolically like the River Styx, and Robb plays the roll of Charon for himself and Bran, leading first himself across the water, and then eventually coming back for Bran. And in this moment, Bran feels strong and whole. Perhaps I am seeing far to much symbolism in this, but I really wonder if this also foreshadow's Bran's death? And a freedom of sorts that comes with death.
There is so much lovely foreshadowing in this chapter, such as "It was nice under the trees" from Bran, and when last we see Bran, he is living and learning in Bloodraven's cave under the tree's, tangled up in the roots of the weirwood.
It was nice under the trees. Bran kept Dancer to a walk, holding the reins lightly and looking all around him as they went. He knew this wood, but he had been so long confined to Winterfell that he felt as though he were seeing it for the first time. The smells filled his nostrils; the sharp fresh tang of pine needles, the earthy odor of wet rotting leaves, the hints of animal musk and distant cooking fires. He caught a glimpse of a black squirrel moving through the snow-covered branches of an oak, and paused to study the silvery web of an empress spider. AGOT-Bran V
Is this a hint of what might be watching through the eyes in the tree's. Not the wierwoods in this case, but other eyes. A black squirrel and an empress spider. The black squirrel could hint at Bloodraven, I think, but the empress spider makes me curious. Varys is often called a spider and it's a big part of his arc, but here we have a female spider. So, does that hint that there is someone else watching through that web (the web makes me think of Old Nan knitting) or is it a not to Varys actually being a female? Is this a hint at House Webber. I do have some tinfoil about Rohanne Webber being Old Nan, or could it tie Varys to House Webber? Just toying with ideas a bit. And if you squint at it, and turn your head sideways, this could hint at parentage, or at least blood connections in the story.
Ah, finally a parentage hint, perhaps.
Suddenly Bran was falling. He sprawled on the ground, his legs tangled under him, one foot in the stream. He could not feel the cold of the water, but he felt the steel when Stiv pressed his dagger to his throat. "Back away," the man warned, "or I'll open the boy's windpipe, I swear it."
Robb reined his horse in, breathing hard. The fury went out of his eyes, and his sword arm dropped. AGOT-Bran V
Robb reined his horse in, breathing hard. The fury went out of his eyes, and his sword arm dropped. AGOT-Bran V
So, even though we are told that Robb doesn't look much like Eddard, are we to think that perhaps there is more of Ned is Robb that we think? I myself have wondered about Robb's father actually being Brandon, but here, in this instant, the text seems to connect him to Eddard. I still see Brandon as a possible father for Robb, depending on the time line.
Bran's cloak billowed out, rippling in the wind, and the snow seemed to rush at his face. Robb was well ahead, glancing back over his shoulder from time to time to make sure Bran and the others were following. He snapped the reins again. Smooth as silk, Dancer slid into a gallop. The distance closed. By the time he caught Robb on the edge of the wolfswood, two miles beyond the winter town, they had left the others well behind. "I can ride!" Bran shouted, grinning. It felt almost as good as flying.
"I'd race you, but I fear you'd win." AGOT-Bran V
"I'd race you, but I fear you'd win." AGOT-Bran V
There is all sorts of lovely teasing and hints in this passage of smoothness and flight and cloaks billowing in the wind, but I want to look at the horse riding abilities we have on display here. Robb was well ahead, which could indicate he is a superior rider, or has some deep connection to his horse, which is how the text hints to us about Brandon and Lyanna being like centaurs. Could this hint at Brandon as the father of Robb?
But then Bran picks up the pace and he catches Robb by the time they reach the forest. Both seem to have enjoyed the ride, but it does stand out to me that even a crippled Bran has managed to catch up to Robb on horseback. Robb even teases that Bran would win in a race. This brings to mind Jon and Robb racing in Bran's first POV, but also brings to mind Ned riding with Robert in the barrowlands. At first, it seems that Ned cannot keep pace with Robert, but when he truly wants to, it seems like Ned can keep pace with Robert just fine.
So, does this hint that all of the Stark's have this ability? Is this Bran catching up with Robb supposed to echo Ned catching up to Robert? We are never told about Rickon's riding skills, and Sansa says that horses smell and she would rather ride with the queen, but Sansa does go hawking with Margaery, and seems to enjoy that ride just find. We know that Arya can ride well, and I think it's implied that Jon also is a good rider. I don't know if it means anything about parentage, since even if Robb is Brandon's, Ned and Brandon seem to have this talent for riding.
And now a little tinfoil, because I just can't help myself. Let's take a peek at Theon.
Bran looked away and pretended not to have heard, but he could feel Greyjoy's eyes on him. No doubt he was smiling. He smiled a lot, as if the world were a secret joke that only he was clever enough to understand. Robb seemed to admire Theon and enjoy his company, but Bran had never warmed to his father's ward. AGOT-Bran V
"Blood for blood." For once Greyjoy did not smile. His lean, dark face had a hungry look to it, and black hair fell down across his eyes. AGOT-Bran V
As the maester knelt to examine the wound, Bran turned his head. Theon Greyjoy stood beside a sentinel tree, his bow in hand. He was smiling. Ever smiling. A half-dozen arrows were thrust into the soft ground at his feet, but it had taken only one. "A dead enemy is a thing of beauty," he announced. AGOT-Bran V
Theon's smile was gone. He gave a sullen shrug and began to pull his arrows from the ground, one by one. AGOT-Theon V
For a long, long time, even way back when the world was simple and I though RLJ was the answer, I always hesitated when I thought of Theon and his connection to Winterfell and the Stark children. After my very first read of Game, I tried to tie Theon to being a Stark bastard. Brandon seemed the most likely, but I never figured how I could get Brandon in bed with Alannys Harlaw Greyjoy. I even imagined if Brandon was riding the rills, could he just hope a boat to the Iron Islands and shag Balon's wife? Doubtful, but still I wondered. There is a lot we don't know about Brandon.
Rickard is worth considering, although we seem to know less about him than we do about Brandon. Possible, I suppose!
I also wondered about Ned, although, if Theon is 19-20 at the start of our story, and Ned is 35, then I have to give Ned props for being as horny as Robert Baratheon at a young age and having a bastard by 15, and I have to work even harder to connect Ned to Alannys. One thing that always teased me about this idea is that this would mean Ned took Alannys child away from her, his own bastard but still, he would have stole her child, and that hints at one Cersei accuses Ned of with Ashara Dayne. Also, I really liked the idea that Ned planted not just one, but two, of his bastards right under Catelyn's nose, and I got some evil pleasure out of this, no lie. Weirdly, Alannys name does bring to mind Lyanna's name, as its an anagram of sorts.
But neither Brandon nor Ned nor Rickard really makes much sense in the story, except it does connect Theon to Winterfell, and his want to be part of Winterfell, in the same way that Jon wants to be part of Winterfell, to be the Lord of Winterfell. But, as the years went by, I let that tinfoil die, while picking up other tinfoil decorated banners.
But still, there is something about Theon that hints skinchanger to me. Perhaps it was the bond he had with his horse, Smiler! (I see what you are doing, GRRM) and how when Smiler died, the last brutal memory has is of Smiler screaming and with his mane a flame, and then Theon blacks out, which seems to be what happens to Varamyr when his eagle burst into flames. Vararmyr loses his shit, his mind and several of his animals, and Theon also seems to loose his mind. So, if Theon is a skin changer, where does it come from?
And, while reading this chapter again, (three times since last week), I really started to think on Theon's smile. And you know who is associated with smiling, rather often, actually? No, not Daario although he certainly smiles for Dany...
Euron Fooking Greyjoy! The Crows Eye!
Euron smiles a lot. And it's not always a nice smile. Sometimes it's not even an actual smile, but with his "smiling eye" as Victarion refers to it. But once I looked at it, I had a hard time looking away. Euron smiles a lot, Theon smiles a lot.
Or course, a smile isn't everything, but what we do know about Euron is he seems to be willing to spread his seed about, almost as much as dear Robert Baratheon. Euron has several "mongrel" bastards, and he was actually banished from the Iron Islands for either raping or seducing (who knows, he's kind of a hottie bad boy) Victarion's salt wife and getting her pregnant. What if Victarion wasn't the only brother that Euron decided to cuckold? Give the horns to, so to speak. What if he did the same thing to Balon and his wife Alannys? What if Balon always suspected what happened with Euron and Alannys, and used his suspicion with knowledge, since Victarion didn't keep it a secret when he beat the poor woman to death, and used this as his excuse to punish Euron? Lot's of speculation, of course ...
Now, I have some tinfoil that Euron is a skinchanger. That he either is the three eyed crow or is at least working for him/her, or was corrupted by the 3EC. This could give Theon a skinchanger gene. It could let Euron or the 3EC into Theon's dreams. Theon has some pretty terrible dreams at Winterfell, and I am not convinced it's because he was sleeping in Ned's bed or that the bed was made of weirwood. It could be, but it might not be, also.
That is probably enough tinfoil about this, but one thing this chapter showed me, was that GRRM is bringing attention to Theon and his smile for a reason. Perhaps this is the reason?
Okay, really, I am done with the Theon/Euron tinfoil, but I just liked the pictures to much not to share!
And a little none parentage stuff that tempted me, even if it doesn't pertain to parentage:
"Bran?" Robb asked. "What's wrong?"
Bran shook his head. "I was just remembering," he said. "Jory brought us here once, to fish for trout. You and me and Jon. Do you remember?"
"I remember," Robb said, his voice quiet and sad.
"I didn't catch anything," Bran said, "but Jon gave me his fish on the way back to Winterfell. Will we ever see Jon again?" AGOT-Bran V
Bran shook his head. "I was just remembering," he said. "Jory brought us here once, to fish for trout. You and me and Jon. Do you remember?"
"I remember," Robb said, his voice quiet and sad.
"I didn't catch anything," Bran said, "but Jon gave me his fish on the way back to Winterfell. Will we ever see Jon again?" AGOT-Bran V
Any idea's on what this could hint at? I am torn between thinking that Jon will give his life, in place of Bran's at some point of the story. Or, Bran will be expected to return the favor, and give something to Jon, something important. Life, perhaps, or blood? A dragon? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
They were on the far side when they heard the howl, a long rising wail that moved through the trees like a cold wind. Bran raised his head to listen. "Summer," he said. No sooner had he spoken than a second voice joined the first. AGOT-Bran V
Why does the wolf named Summer have a howl that is like a cold wind? Cold winds make me think of the Other's, and whatever cold breath inhabits the Winterfell crypts. Hmmm!
… and then Grey Wind was on him, bearing him down. He fell back into the stream with a splash and a shout, flailing wildly with his knife as his head went under. The direwolf plunged in after him, and the white water turned red where they had vanished. AGOT-Bran V
The white and red connection always brings the weirwoods to mind, and in this case, it is the water that is white and it becomes red with blood. Perhaps this is a little blood sacrifice to the gods of the rocks and streams and the forest, such as Varamyr's mother was told by the woods witch?