Sure. For me, the problem is that I don't particularly care what happens to Meereen or the characters that came with it. I can't keep them straight, they eat dogs and locusts and in their free time enjoy watching slaves, dwarves and old women butcher each other in the fighting pits. I can't identify with these characters in any way whatsoever. So I don't care what happens to them or their city.
I feel much the same way about the rest of Dany's followers. IDK why GRRM never gave us a POV from any of them. It would really help to humanize them and help the reader understand where they're coming from and what they want.
I agree. The only people around Slaver's Bay that I can even connect with are the shepherds and farmers. And perhaps some of that is based on feeling bad for MMD's Lhazerheen when the Dothraki fall on them like flies on a corpse! The culture of the Ghiscari is pretty horrible, or at least the elite of the Ghiscari are.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I agree. The only people around Slaver's Bay that I can even connect with are the shepherds and farmers. And perhaps some of that is based on feeling bad for MMD's Lhazerheen when the Dothraki fall on them like flies on a corpse! The culture of the Ghiscari is pretty horrible, or at least the elite of the Ghiscari are.
I think there may be more to the Lhazareen than meets the eye. I don't have a cohesive theory, but a lot of things seem out of place for a culture of peaceful shepherds. First of all, why would their priestess train in Asshai in the first place? Is this normal for priests of the Great Shepherd? Actually, I think it may be - because in Fire & Blood, we meet the Shepherd - a man who leads the attack on the dragon pit, resulting in the death of several dragons. At one point, he appears to use a shadow baby to kill a dragon... suggesting he may have also visited Asshai or at least trained with shadow binders. In addition, we hear many times that the Valyrians started out as shepherds... and dragons' favorite food is mutton. Coincidence? Never mind that the lands of Lhazar, and the inhabitants the Lhazareen, sound a lot like Lazarus who of course came back from the dead. GRRM keeps them in the story by having Barristan train the Red Lamb - a Lhazareen boy who is one of his very best students. I do hope at some point we get to see this kid interact with one of the dragons! Oh and speaking of dragons... it was the burning of the Lhazareen priestess that woke them. Sure, maybe also Drogo, but he was already dead when he was burned, which according to Melisandre doesn't work.
Oh and lastly, there is my signature: “In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
Why would the Kindly Man include the Great Shepherd in this quote, if he is only the god of some random shepherds? It almost sounds like he is included as one of the faces of death. Do the Lhazareen worship death?? They are certainly the most interesting of all the Essosi peoples Dany has interacted with, aside from maybe the people of Qarth. The people of Slaver's Bay are just not well developed, they don't seem involved with any interesting mysteries or backstories, and I just don't think they would be missed if Dany were to burn them all.
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
I think there may be more to the Lhazareen than meets the eye. I don't have a cohesive theory, but a lot of things seem out of place for a culture of peaceful shepherds. First of all, why would their priestess train in Asshai in the first place? Is this normal for priests of the Great Shepherd? Actually, I think it may be - because in Fire & Blood, we meet the Shepherd - a man who leads the attack on the dragon pit, resulting in the death of several dragons. At one point, he appears to use a shadow baby to kill a dragon... suggesting he may have also visited Asshai or at least trained with shadow binders. In addition, we hear many times that the Valyrians started out as shepherds... and dragons' favorite food is mutton. Coincidence? Never mind that the lands of Lhazar, and the inhabitants the Lhazareen, sound a lot like Lazarus who of course came back from the dead. GRRM keeps them in the story by having Barristan train the Red Lamb - a Lhazareen boy who is one of his very best students. I do hope at some point we get to see this kid interact with one of the dragons!
Really interesting connections! I have not given much thought into shepherds/The Great Shepherd connection but one thing that has always stood out the me is "The Great..." etc. The Great Other, The Great Shepherd. I doubt it means anything at all, but... do they happen to have the same name, a name that is to powerful to speak?
Do all Lhazareen priestess' train in Asshai? I always thought that might just be MMD, and I certainly think she is special. Mirri Maz Duur and Melisandre seem similar to me, in cadence and tone, although not in looks by any means. MMD is burned to death and Mel uses fire by death as a tool. But did MMD allow herself and her life to be used as a tool?
Oh and speaking of dragons... it was the burning of the Lhazareen priestess that woke them. Sure, maybe also Drogo, but he was already dead when he was burned, which according to Melisandre doesn't work.
I have debated within myself for years that it was MMD's power that gave birth to the dragons, something in her song, something in the way that she states when talking about her training, "I know every secret of the bloody bed, Silver Lady, nor have I ever lost a babe". Is it a human birthing bed that she is talking about or does it have to do with dragons? After all, Asshai is associated with dragons, long before Valyria was, and she is trained in the songs of the "bloody bed".
Why would the Kindly Man include the Great Shepherd in this quote, if he is only the god of some random shepherds?
I have wondered if this "great shepherd" concept is a nod toward Christianity. Jesus being a shepherd of men, Jesus being a shepherd willing to lay down his life for his sheep. GRRM's strict Catholic upbringing makes me think this was a normal part of his formative years, just as he uses other Christian imagery in his story. The holy trinity (of which I think there are several in this story) but instead he gives us the seven gods in one. The idea of the Faith of the Seven mirroring the Holy Catholic Church, especially with it's power in the medieval world.
However, I can see GRRM taking that concept of the Christian Shepherd and turning it into something far, far different in his story.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I agree. The only people around Slaver's Bay that I can even connect with are the shepherds and farmers. And perhaps some of that is based on feeling bad for MMD's Lhazerheen when the Dothraki fall on them like flies on a corpse! The culture of the Ghiscari is pretty horrible, or at least the elite of the Ghiscari are.
I think there may be more to the Lhazareen than meets the eye. I don't have a cohesive theory, but a lot of things seem out of place for a culture of peaceful shepherds. First of all, why would their priestess train in Asshai in the first place? Is this normal for priests of the Great Shepherd? Actually, I think it may be - because in Fire & Blood, we meet the Shepherd - a man who leads the attack on the dragon pit, resulting in the death of several dragons. At one point, he appears to use a shadow baby to kill a dragon... suggesting he may have also visited Asshai or at least trained with shadow binders. In addition, we hear many times that the Valyrians started out as shepherds... and dragons' favorite food is mutton. Coincidence? Never mind that the lands of Lhazar, and the inhabitants the Lhazareen, sound a lot like Lazarus who of course came back from the dead. GRRM keeps them in the story by having Barristan train the Red Lamb - a Lhazareen boy who is one of his very best students. I do hope at some point we get to see this kid interact with one of the dragons! Oh and speaking of dragons... it was the burning of the Lhazareen priestess that woke them. Sure, maybe also Drogo, but he was already dead when he was burned, which according to Melisandre doesn't work.
Oh and lastly, there is my signature: “In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
Why would the Kindly Man include the Great Shepherd in this quote, if he is only the god of some random shepherds? It almost sounds like he is included as one of the faces of death. Do the Lhazareen worship death?? They are certainly the most interesting of all the Essosi peoples Dany has interacted with, aside from maybe the people of Qarth. The people of Slaver's Bay are just not well developed, they don't seem involved with any interesting mysteries or backstories, and I just don't think they would be missed if Dany were to burn them all.
It's GRRM's atheism shining through. I don't think I have to make it plain whom the Great Shepherd is based on...
Do all Lhazareen priestess' train in Asshai? I always thought that might just be MMD, and I certainly think she is special. Mirri Maz Duur and Melisandre seem similar to me, in cadence and tone, although not in looks by any means. MMD is burned to death and Mel uses fire by death as a tool. But did MMD allow herself and her life to be used as a tool?
Oh and speaking of dragons... it was the burning of the Lhazareen priestess that woke them. Sure, maybe also Drogo, but he was already dead when he was burned, which according to Melisandre doesn't work.
I have debated within myself for years that it was MMD's power that gave birth to the dragons, something in her song, something in the way that she states when talking about her training, "I know every secret of the bloody bed, Silver Lady, nor have I ever lost a babe". Is it a human birthing bed that she is talking about or does it have to do with dragons? After all, Asshai is associated with dragons, long before Valyria was, and she is trained in the songs of the "bloody bed".
I don't think MMD sacrificed herself on purpose to help wake the dragons. She seems worried and unhappy about it:
Rakharo chose a stallion from the small herd that remained to them; he was not the equal of Khal Drogo’s red, but few horses were. In the center of the square, Aggo fed him a withered apple and dropped him in an instant with an axe blow between the eyes. Bound hand and foot, Mirri Maz Duur watched from the dust with disquiet in her black eyes. “It is not enough to kill a horse,” she told Dany. “By itself, the blood is nothing. You do not have the words to make a spell, nor the wisdom to find them. Do you think bloodmagic is a game for children? You call me maegi as if it were a curse, but all it means is wise. You are a child, with a child’s ignorance. Whatever you mean to do, it will not work. Loose me from these bonds and I will help you.” “I am tired of the maegi’s braying,” Dany told Jhogo. He took his whip to her, and after that the godswife kept silent.
As she climbed down off the pyre, she noticed Mirri Maz Duur watching her. “You are mad,” the godswife said hoarsely. “Is it so far from madness to wisdom?” Dany asked. “Ser Jorah, take this maegi and bind her to the pyre.”
“You will not hear me scream,” Mirri responded as the oil dripped from her hair and soaked her clothing. “I will,” Dany said, “but it is not your screams I want, only your life. I remember what you told me. Only death can pay for life.” Mirri Maz Duur opened her mouth, but made no reply. As she stepped away, Dany saw that the contempt was gone from the maegi’s flat black eyes; in its place was something that might have been fear. Then there was nothing to be done but watch the sun and look for the first star.
MMD does sing just before she burns, but only for a few moments before it turns to screams:
The wood crackled, louder and louder. Mirri Maz Duur began to sing in a shrill, ululating voice. The flames whirled and writhed, racing each other up the platform. The dusk shimmered as the air itself seemed to liquefy from the heat. Dany heard logs spit and crack. The fires swept over Mirri Maz Duur. Her song grew louder, shriller... then she gasped, again and again, and her song became a shuddering wail, thin and high and full of agony.
So overall I don't think she was a willing participant in this sacrifice. But I do think that burning her is what woke the dragons. I was rereading this chapter, and it sounds like Rhaego's death is what paid for Drogo's "life". Then Dany kills Drogo, and burns his dead body in the usual Dothraki funeral tradition. It's not a sacrifice. Mel always burns living people when she wants to do magic- the option of killing them humanely and then burning the body is never even considered. There is also this HOTU vision that supports this idea:
Faster and faster the visions came, one after the other, until it seemed as if the very air had come alive. Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible. A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow. Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged. A white lion ran through grass taller than a man. Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed. Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. “Mother!” they cried. “Mother, mother!”
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
Think of Skahaz this way, he's the Meereenese version of Littlefinger, and you should be able to tell by what happens to him what'll happen to LF.
You're right, actually, and thanks to this back-and-forth I just re-read an excellent series of essays about the Meereenese knot and its importance to the story. I'm going to summarize, for all the Meereen haters like me:
- Skahaz was a noble who quickly sided with Dany after her conquest. Chaos is a ladder; this man is an opportunist.
- Skahaz is from a lesser noble house than Hizdhar, and they are rivals/borderline enemies
- Skahaz leads the Brazen Beasts, a new police force made up of half supportive nobles and half freedmen, all in masks
- Skahaz opposes Dany's marriage to Hizdahr, as this makes Hizdahr the king of Meereen and diminishes Skahaz's influence
- Skahaz most likely poisoned the locusts, with the goal of disrupting the peace/alliance between Dany and Hizdahr & the other nobles
-Hizdahr was probably the Harpy, or at least working closely with it. But he got what he wanted, and has no reason to kill Dany, let alone in such a public way.
Anyway, the actual point of this story line is that Dany felt bad after what happened in Astapor (accidentally made everything much worse), and then the death of Hazzea by Drogon. So she spends the book reining in her violent impulses (symbolized by chaining up the dragons) and sacrificing more and more for a peace and for her people. However, she becomes increasingly miserable starts regretting her decisions. This culminates in her hallucinations in the Dothraki Sea, in which she ultimately rejects peace and remembers that dragons plant no trees and her words are fire and blood.
It's funny, actually: in the show we're all mad that there wasn't more lead-up to Dany taking a dark turn, but in the books we're all annoyed that George is walking us through every step of the transformation slowly in her head, and shows us all the influencing factors, over the course of an entire endless book. Ha.
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
So overall I don't think she was a willing participant in this sacrifice. But I do think that burning her is what woke the dragons. I was rereading this chapter, and it sounds like Rhaego's death is what paid for Drogo's "life". Then Dany kills Drogo, and burns his dead body in the usual Dothraki funeral tradition. It's not a sacrifice. Mel always burns living people when she wants to do magic- the option of killing them humanely and then burning the body is never even considered.
Well, all of this is from Dany's perspective, with her personal interpretation of MMD's actions. We have no other POV that confirms that was how MMD said things, or if she said them at all. Disquiet, contempt, fear are all things that Dany could be misinterpreting. Dany is also weakened from child birth and sick with grief, for Drogo and her son. In this moment, just before she walks into the flames, I am certain that Jorah must find her to be absolutely mad. MMD says she is. She is sure she won't die, but so have several Targaryen's before her who have played with fire. As to MMD's song, what did it mean? What power does it have? Why, when facing her death, does she chose to sing? And certainly, a person can only sing so long when they are dying? Flames and heat will burn your lungs and airway far quicker than the fire will kill you! Most burn victims are intubated and ventilated mechanically, because damage to lungs and swelling of the airway will kill a person much quicker than the burns.
I know it's an fairly tinfoil interpretation of the events, but if MMD hadn't mentioned the "songs of the birthing bed" and then claiming to have never lost one, followed by Rhaego's death reported by MMD, leads me to think it wasn't the childs birth she was referring to. MMD did study in Asshai and Asshai is linked to dragons in Bran's coma dream. The dragon eggs themselves are linked to the shadow lands beyond Asshai. Melisandre also studied in Asshai and she is convinced she is on the path to waking dragons from stone. Melisandre sings when the statues of the seven are burned on Dragonstone, her voice noted to rise and fall like the sea. This could mimim MMD's sing in the pyre, described as ululating, high pitched and shrill. Does Mel sing every time she puts something or someone to the flames? Perhaps someday we will see Mel singing while herself being consumed by flames?
As to Mel's singing at human burnings, we have this. We do see one burning of humans she is part of (Mance/Rattleshirt) but not the other, as it's an abbreviated memory (Alester Florent). Interesting is that we get Davos' remembrance of Alester's burning (no song noted) just one chapter before we see Jon watch Mance/Rattleshirt burn (no song noted from Mel)!
Now, just to argue with myself a bit, MMD's birthing songs are said to come from the Jogos Nai, not from the people of Asshai. The Jogos Nai are tied to the religion of the moonsingers. What is up with the Moonsigners? Melisandre seems to worship fire and the power of the sun, but we know that the moon and it's light is actually a reflection of the sun. Also, when Mance/Rattleshirt is burned, Jon does not note that Mel is singing, and she might not be, because her concentration is on keeping Mance/Rattleshirt's glamour alive. She knows she is not really burning a king, or someone of special blood, so perhaps she doesn't waste a song. However, I find it interesting that during the burning of Mance/Rattleshirt, Jon actually think of a song and tells us some of the lyrics, so a song is present at the time of this burning, although Jon Snow is certainly not singing it.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
You're right, actually, and thanks to this back-and-forth I just re-read an excellent series of essays about the Meereenese knot and its importance to the story. I'm going to summarize, for all the Meereen haters like me:
- Skahaz was a noble who quickly sided with Dany after her conquest. Chaos is a ladder; this man is an opportunist.
- Skahaz is from a lesser noble house than Hizdhar, and they are rivals/borderline enemies
- Skahaz leads the Brazen Beasts, a new police force made up of half supportive nobles and half freedmen, all in masks
- Skahaz opposes Dany's marriage to Hizdahr, as this makes Hizdahr the king of Meereen and diminishes Skahaz's influence
- Skahaz most likely poisoned the locusts, with the goal of disrupting the peace/alliance between Dany and Hizdahr & the other nobles
-Hizdahr was probably the Harpy, or at least working closely with it. But he got what he wanted, and has no reason to kill Dany, let alone in such a public way.
when you managed to put it so succinctly in just a few lines
Actually i did not mind Meereen as such but i hated all these long unpronounceable names.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
As for finishing my book… I fear that New Zealand would distract me entirely too much. Best leave me here in Westeros for the nonce. But I tell you this — if I don’t have THE WINDS OF WINTER in hand when I arrive in New Zealand for worldcon, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on White Island, overlooking that lake of sulfuric acid, until I’m done. Just so long as the acrid fumes do not screw up my old DOS word processor, I’ll be fine.
As for finishing my book… I fear that New Zealand would distract me entirely too much. Best leave me here in Westeros for the nonce. But I tell you this — if I don’t have THE WINDS OF WINTER in hand when I arrive in New Zealand for worldcon, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on White Island, overlooking that lake of sulfuric acid, until I’m done. Just so long as the acrid fumes do not screw up my old DOS word processor, I’ll be fine.
Think of Skahaz this way, he's the Meereenese version of Littlefinger, and you should be able to tell by what happens to him what'll happen to LF.
You're right, actually, and thanks to this back-and-forth I just re-read an excellent series of essays about the Meereenese knot and its importance to the story. I'm going to summarize, for all the Meereen haters like me:
- Skahaz was a noble who quickly sided with Dany after her conquest. Chaos is a ladder; this man is an opportunist.
- Skahaz is from a lesser noble house than Hizdhar, and they are rivals/borderline enemies
- Skahaz leads the Brazen Beasts, a new police force made up of half supportive nobles and half freedmen, all in masks
- Skahaz opposes Dany's marriage to Hizdahr, as this makes Hizdahr the king of Meereen and diminishes Skahaz's influence
- Skahaz most likely poisoned the locusts, with the goal of disrupting the peace/alliance between Dany and Hizdahr & the other nobles
I actually think House Paul poisoned the locusts. Dany is not known to enjoy local Meereenese cuisine, but Strong Belwas is, especially locusts. Additionally, he has to eat A LOT before the poison starts working, which to me indicates the poison wasn't strong enough to kill in the first place (after all he's a big man, and he starts getting a stomachache after eating a good chunk), which hints at not a hit job aimed at Dany. Otherwise, why poison so lightly? Most likely it's House Paul looking to get some small satisfaction against the man who killed their family member. The Champion that Meereen sent out to fight Strong Belwas--Dany's champion--was from House Paul after all. And if someone else accidentially ate some of the locusts who wasn't Strong Belwas--they suffer from a minor inconvenience, while Belwas, who stuffs himself from the poison, either severely suffers or--if he eats them all--might potentially die.
After all, Dany's train gets stopped in front of the pyramid of House Paul on the way to the fighting pits--and that's when the locusts were probably poisoned, or even added to the train.
-Hizdahr was probably the Harpy, or at least working closely with it. But he got what he wanted, and has no reason to kill Dany, let alone in such a public way.
Anyway, the actual point of this story line is that Dany felt bad after what happened in Astapor (accidentally made everything much worse), and then the death of Hazzea by Drogon. So she spends the book reining in her violent impulses (symbolized by chaining up the dragons) and sacrificing more and more for a peace and for her people. However, she becomes increasingly miserable starts regretting her decisions. This culminates in her hallucinations in the Dothraki Sea, in which she ultimately rejects peace and remembers that dragons plant no trees and her words are fire and blood.
It's funny, actually: in the show we're all mad that there wasn't more lead-up to Dany taking a dark turn, but in the books we're all annoyed that George is walking us through every step of the transformation slowly in her head, and shows us all the influencing factors, over the course of an entire endless book. Ha.
Exactly. GRRM is taking the time to show Dany's evolution, D&D just decided: And one day she just snapped.
Post by whitewolfstark on May 29, 2019 0:26:39 GMT
So, if we accept that certain characters are ciphers for others--or at the very least similar to one another:
Skahaz = Littlefinger, both are scheming lower lords who are well connected to "new money" and are looking to rise up quickly
Hizdahr = probably the best Westerosi equivalent would be a Hightower, both are "old money" nobles, who have intimate ties with the Faith of the region, usually actively engaging in conspiracies with the Faith to undermine Targaryens (until they marry one). This is especially clear to me after reading Fire & Blood--and not just the Dance with the Dragons era, but also earlier under Jaehaerys' reign and Aenys and Maegor as well. The Hightowers and the Faith are very intertwined, similar to how Hizdahr's cousin is the Green Grace in the faith of the Harpy (I forget what the books call it). But who would be the closest parallel in the theoretical plot line where Dany came to Westeros instead of Meereen? Probably Garlan Tyrell would be the closest analogue to any of our known characters, and he is half a Hightower after all.
Ser Garlan the Gallant is a Tyrell yes, he was given the seat of Florents after they sided with Stannis. He also wore Renly's armour.
I'm actually quite curious about Garlan's arc, as he seems interesting. But also how he might tie into The Green Knight from Arthurian legend, even if he only wore that green armor once.
I hate to break it to you, but Crunch is dead. I just reread that chapter. The Ghiscari love eating dog (and also unborn puppies on a stick, apparently). His head is seen on a stick at one point... Tyrion keeps it from Penny and is annoyed that she is worried about her animals.
Considering that Cruch is not a puppy, he might be safe!
you are not alone in this one; i never quite got into that diversion in the story.
For a long time I've thought that she should stay there and try to manage her mess, and keep her bloody feet off Westeros. But it might be better if she just make the bay into a sheet of glass before retreating to that pale city she found after the Red Waste. She can pain one of the doors red, to make it home.
The show has made me fear that we might see more of the Dothraki, as that is another people I have no stomach for. I'm not hopeful that we will be spared that, however...
I was re-reading not long ago. The scenes with Selmy and Skahaz are actually pretty good. Could be a buddy cop spinoff. The Brazen Beasts are constantly going off-book and wrecking the city, and Selmy has to call the Shavepate into his office. BUT HE GETS THINGS DONE!
Barristan's chapters in Mereen are the only good chapters from that bloody bay! But that is probably just because I like Barristan.
Please stop it before you rekindle my interest and i have to go down to the cellar to disinter my books!
However, perhaps that is the best way to read this part of the story, by itself.
Haha! Have you stored them at the bottom closest to the Wall with much and more in front?
Not sure if I could stomach a Slaver's Bay exclusive read... It would be like a Catelyn reread... That being said, there are interesting stuff in there as well.
Sure. For me, the problem is that I don't particularly care what happens to Meereen or the characters that came with it. I can't keep them straight, they eat dogs and locusts and in their free time enjoy watching slaves, dwarves and old women butcher each other in the fighting pits. I can't identify with these characters in any way whatsoever. So I don't care what happens to them or their city.
I feel much the same way about the rest of Dany's followers. IDK why GRRM never gave us a POV from any of them. It would really help to humanize them and help the reader understand where they're coming from and what they want.
That's my main problem with both the Ghiscari and the Dothraki. When reading the books, I really hoped we had seen the last of the Dothraki, but no. They had to show up at the end of Dance... I hope she just burns them and that is that...
I agree. The only people around Slaver's Bay that I can even connect with are the shepherds and farmers. And perhaps some of that is based on feeling bad for MMD's Lhazerheen when the Dothraki fall on them like flies on a corpse! The culture of the Ghiscari is pretty horrible, or at least the elite of the Ghiscari are.
Yes on the Lhazerheen (and thanks that I didn't have to look up the spelling! ). As for the Ghiscari, I think the smallfolk aren't that much better, considering how popular the slaughtering pits are. Of course, there is good people in every group, but as a whole I can't see that culture as anything but nauseating.
Not promising, but creating a tremendous headache for New Zealand authorities; they have to ready that volcano for Martin´s stay now...
Meh, his readers will probably be happy to light a fire under his feet and blow various gasses into his face to inspire him. No need to involve the government over there, other than to permit the imprisonment of a man. But then again he has sanctioned it himself, so it will probably be ok!
Okay, GRRM... are you really promising next summer?
The 78th World Science Fiction Convention (Worldcon), also known as CoNZealand, will take place July 29th to August 2nd, 2020, in Wellington, New Zealand.
If not, we'll treat you just like you treated Cersei and Margaery and butcher your beard and repeat "shame, shame, shame" at you until you are finished!
And if that doesn't get him typing away, we can get inspiration from Ramsay!
Let's start a Go Fund Me account for the purpose of installing an air filtration system to keep his computer safe. The opportunity to lock up GRRM and force him to finish TWOW should not be wasted!!
Nope! We can't allow this to slip between our fingers!
I'm actually quite curious about Garlan's arc, as he seems interesting. But also how he might tie into The Green Knight from Arthurian legend, even if he only wore that green armor once.
Actually, I think GRRM might think Garlan is pretty important, too. He just mentioned Garlan the Gallant in a blog post, and has always made a bit of a fuss about the show cutting Garlan and Willis' character's from the show. Garlan seems to be a fairly decent human. Kind and honorable, sympathetic to both Sansa and Tyrion at Joff's wedding, smarter than his father (unless Mace is fooling us all), seems to be gentle and loving with his wife, a strong warrior. Although, I don't put it past him to have poisoned Joffrey. A little passing of black amethyst into a couple hands before it hit the bottom of the wine cup.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.