A few days past, he had taken Ned aside to show him an exquisite rose gold locklet. Inside was a miniature painted in the vivid Myrish style, of a lovely young girl with doe’s eyes and a cascade of soft brown hair. Renly had seemed anxious to know if the girl reminded him of anyone, and when Ned had no answer but a shrug, he had seemed disappointed. The maid was Loras Tyrell’s sister Margaery, he’d confessed, but there were those who said she looked like Lyanna. “No,” Ned had told him, bemused. Could it be that Lord Renly, who looked so like a young Robert, had conceived a passion for a girl he fancied to be a young Lyanna? That struck him as more than passing queer.
What the???
Not too weird. Renly is trying to replace Cersei with Margaery. Ned wrongly assumes Renly desired her.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Yes, this is what I was wondering. Why was Renly anxious to know if Ned thought she looked like Lyanna? It seems so deliberate like this is supposed to be a clue planted in our subconscious for something later.
That's interesting. Are you thinking that something Marg does will echo in some way what happened to Lyanna? I really hadn't thought that before. Maybe her imprisonment by the High Sparrow is supposed to reflect Lyanna's fate in some way? Hmm, that merits some thought.
Guessing: High Sparrow is a zealot. Rhaegar wasn't, but was highly interested in prophecy. . .
Was also thinking that even all these years after her death, people are still using Lyanna to manipulate politics. And trying to get her family involved. Reply's just being a bit of an idiot, but still. . . ugh.
Makes me wonder, Melisandra, if that moment gives the "Tywin was meddling" theories another boost.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Yes, this is what I was wondering. Why was Renly anxious to know if Ned thought she looked like Lyanna? It seems so deliberate like this is supposed to be a clue planted in our subconscious for something later.
That's interesting. Are you thinking that something Marg does will echo in some way what happened to Lyanna? I really hadn't thought that before. Maybe her imprisonment by the High Sparrow is supposed to reflect Lyanna's fate in some way? Hmm, that merits some thought.
There is also a subliminal parallel there as well. The picture is in a ROSE gold locket.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
That's interesting. Are you thinking that something Marg does will echo in some way what happened to Lyanna? I really hadn't thought that before. Maybe her imprisonment by the High Sparrow is supposed to reflect Lyanna's fate in some way? Hmm, that merits some thought.
There is also a subliminal parallel there as well. The picture is in a ROSE gold locket.
Interesting mix, too. The Rose of Highgarden, potentially referencing Lyanna and Bael. In gold--Lannister. Hmmmm.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Yes. I think people were and are manipulating politics around the Stark family, Lyanna herself chief among them. The parallel could also be that just like Marg, Lyanna was a skilled political player. Marg, worked her way into the heart of the court to become queen. Who's to say that Lyanna wasn't doing the same?
Arya is compared to Lyanna several times, and Arya could care not one fig about being a lady much less a queen, so in my opinion Lyanna would also not be interested.
Yes and no. Arya is flat out compared to Lyanna in several instances. However, I've been slowly trying to reread things and what I have really noticed standing out is how often Sansa is described as dressing in blue. We don't often think of her this way, but Sansa does have some wolf blood of her own.
I've reread the first Sansa chapter where she goes off with Joff and stumbles on Arya and the Ned chapter right after that multiple times now. There's an echo there of something that occurred in the past, but damn if I can't put my finger on what exactly it is. I feel like Cersei might be the stand in for the mad King Aerys, but that's as far as I can get.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Yes. I think people were and are manipulating politics around the Stark family, Lyanna herself chief among them. The parallel could also be that just like Marg, Lyanna was a skilled political player. Marg, worked her way into the heart of the court to become queen. Who's to say that Lyanna wasn't doing the same?
Arya is compared to Lyanna several times, and Arya could care not one fig about being a lady much less a queen, so in my opinion Lyanna would also not be interested.
Yeah--I was thinking that Lyanna might be more symbolically used: By Aerys (whether he had a hand in taking her or not). By the North and their allies (given rumors of Southron ambitions).
But am wondering if Lyanna didn't also play leverage if she wanted "away". wolfmaid7 did an excellent job persuading me that I'd misinterpreted Lyanna's and Robert's relationship. But that doesn't preclude her perhaps wanting out. If she had leverage. . . maybe.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Yes and no. Arya is flat out compared to Lyanna in several instances. However, I've been slowly trying to reread things and what I have really noticed standing out is how often Sansa is described as dressing in blue. We don't often think of her this way, but Sansa does have some wolf blood of her own.
I've reread the first Sansa chapter where she goes off with Joff and stumbles on Arya and the Ned chapter right after that multiple times now. There's an echo there of something that occurred in the past, but damn if I can't put my finger on what exactly it is. I feel like Cersei might be the stand in for the mad King Aerys, but that's as far as I can get.
Will have to look at that again.
Off the top of my head--Sansa gets tempted away for just a moment from her wolf. And if gets entirely out of hand.
And the moment being taken before the King--it has traces of Brandon and Rickard's sham "trial."
Hmmm. . . need to think a bit.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Yes and no. Arya is flat out compared to Lyanna in several instances. However, I've been slowly trying to reread things and what I have really noticed standing out is how often Sansa is described as dressing in blue. We don't often think of her this way, but Sansa does have some wolf blood of her own.
I've reread the first Sansa chapter where she goes off with Joff and stumbles on Arya and the Ned chapter right after that multiple times now. There's an echo there of something that occurred in the past, but damn if I can't put my finger on what exactly it is. I feel like Cersei might be the stand in for the mad King Aerys, but that's as far as I can get.
Will have to look at that again.
Off the top of my head--Sansa gets tempted away for just a moment from her wolf. And if gets entirely out of hand.
And the moment being taken before the King--it has traces of Brandon and Rickard's sham "trial."
Hmmm. . . need to think a bit.
Exactly. And Cersei with substituting one wolf that was available for another who was not.
The queen regarded him coolly. “I had not thought you so niggardly. The king I’d thought to wed would have laid a wolfskin across my bed before the sun went down.” Robert’s face darkened with anger. “That would be a fine trick, without a wolf.”“We have a wolf,” Cersei Lannister said. Her voice was very quiet, but her green eyes shone with triumph. It took them all a moment to comprehend her words, but when they did, the king shrugged irritably. “As you will. Have Ser Ilyn see to it.”
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
I agree that the current story has many parallels to the past, but it feels like Cersei should play Joffrey if she found Lyanna.
I don't know. Later in the series she seems to be paralleling Aerys's descent into madness. She is quick to promote the substitution of one direwolf for another here. Might Aerys have done the same thing with Brandon/Rickard?
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
I don't know. Later in the series she seems to be paralleling Aerys's descent into madness. She is quick to promote the substitution of one direwolf for another here. Might Aerys have done the same thing with Brandon/Rickard?
I'm not quite following. Lyanna is taken, but then Aerys gets Brandon and Rickard too.
I guess the question is, who was Aerys truly trying to get? To Cersei one wolf is very much the same as another. She is perfectly fine with executing Lady when Nymeria is out of reach. Which wolf was out of Aerys's reach? I can feel the backstory poking through there. I'm just not sure of the interpretation.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
I think later on Varys and Illyrio were discussing Renly's plan to bring Maergery to court (I think) in hopes that Robert would put Cersei aside for a woman that looks like Lyanna.
::i agree::
This is the typical explanation, and the one that makes sense to me. Renly was hoping Robert might be attracted to Margaery... the draw for Renly, of course, being that Loras would likely have accompanied his sister to court.
"Anticlimax is, of course, the warp and way of things. Real life seldom structures a decent denouement." - Martin Silenus
Great point. The direwolves are almost representative of Aerys and his frustration. Lyanna gets away from him and Nymeria gets away from Cersei.
And we can see that parallel with Aerys again carry over to Cersei as well. She's worried about Robert putting Ned in the powerful position of Hand because she doesn't have anything on him and house Stark has never gotten along well with the Lannisters. She fears a loss of power with that move. Like Aerys, she tries and fails to secure house Stark by holding Sansa.
She also is suspicious, and with good reason, of the Tyrells. They have aspirations to greatness and she knows they're the second most powerful house to the Lannisters in terms of wealth. Now while there is no conspiracy presently between the houses banding together to take down Robert and his legacy, there is plenty of political manoeuvring going on that threatens her reign.
So, is this back to the Knight of the Laughing Tree? Aerys never found the Knight. Some say he thought it was Jaime. Perhaps he eventually figured out that the Starks were more likely?
Orders/wants a kidnapping. But . . . . goes bad? Then, Voila!!! Brandon shows up yelling and chest thumping.
Like Cersei--no way she doesn't want leverage on Ned against Robert. She at least pretends to try to seduce him later. Then this happens--she's angry. Can't get what she wants. But, lo and behold! Lady.
The above speculation was brought to you by insomnia.. . .
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
