A thread for discussing who you believe to be the best written character in ASOIAF. Pull up your quotes for why you think this or maybe it's just a gut feeling you have but discuss away.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
For me at least, I feel it's Robert Baratheon, the man who has it all but hates his life. GRRM's done an incredible job of writing a PTSD character and you can really feel Robert's sense of loss and hopelessness as he just tries to live day by day. It makes me wish we had a Robert POV so we could actually read his inner thoughts.
How could they have all been so blind? The truth was there in front of them all the time, written on the children's faces. Ned felt sick. "I remember Robert as he was the day he took the throne, every inch a king," he said quietly. "A thousand other women might have loved him with all their hearts. What did he do to make you hate him so?" Her eyes burned, green fire in the dusk, like the lioness that was her sigil. "The night of our wedding feast, the first time we shared a bed, he called me by your sister's name. He was on top of me, in me, stinking of wine, and he whispered Lyanna." Ned Stark thought of pale blue roses, and for a moment he wanted to weep. "I do not know which of you I pity most."
I swear to you, I was never so alive as when I was winning this throne, or so dead as now that I've won it.
The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown ... it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe ... and mine again, as she was meant to be. I ask you, Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Funny. I was about to respond with Victarion after reading the first post. Then, after reading your second, I realized Victarion prettty much is like a Robert Baratheon POV character.
edit... wait no, it wasn't the Iron Captain... Let me find it....
Last Edit: Aug 30, 2015 4:48:24 GMT by Mojo: This vodka is so strong, I warged into Mojo and signed on to edit my own post!
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Ah, here we go... It's "Victarion" from ADWD. Before I looked at this chapter closely, my previous favorite was Bran's falling dream. Now, I find this one extremely intriguing, though, in truth, mayhaps not as well-written.
I might have to stick with Bran. Bran advances the true story like no other. I mean, how can you read this, and not be hooked?
The morning had dawned clear and cold, with a crispness that hinted at the end of summer. They set forth at daybreak to see a man beheaded, twenty in all, and Bran rode among them, nervous with excitement. This was the first time he had been deemed old enough to go with his lord father and his brothers to see the king's justice done. It was the ninth year of summer, and the seventh of Bran's life.
But Victarion is an amazing chapter. Even though it comes in one of the two loathsome tomes. LOL
Last Edit: Aug 30, 2015 4:49:38 GMT by Mojo: Hey Voice, when are you going to notice I've been following and editing all your drunk posts?
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
To me AGOT is the best written book in the series. Probably why people are still so hung up on the characters and stories from it
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
To me AGOT is the best written book in the series. Probably why people are still so hung up on the characters and stories from it
I completely agree. I've read them all more times than I'd like to admit, but Game is by far the best. And, to this day, Game is the most jarring. The Arya chapter at the end when Ned is executed still bothers me, even though it really shouldn't. I've vowed to leave it out of future rereads.
It's hard to beat Bran though. I mean, he's boring, and spoiled, and as annoying as Sweetrobyn at times, but his chapters are the ones I look forward to the most.
Last Edit: Aug 30, 2015 20:08:55 GMT by Mojo: I like bran, myself. Bran muffins, oat bran, bran flakes...
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Overall, I think Tyrion's the best written character. He's witty and educated, so you learn a lot of back story during his chapters. Tyrion is very narcissistic, and the chapters where he is full of self-pity sort of drag on. Yet he believes himself to be a good person with great insight into humanity; occasionally, he's correct. You see more sides to his personality, which makes him an interesting read, even while you look askance at the actions he takes. I don't sometimes like Tyrion, but I do look forward to his chapters.
Davos is a good one too. I definitely related to him while reading, but not, perhaps, as much as Eddard.
We don't have many Eddard chapters, but they are very well written. As a husband and father, it was easy to relate to his character. But, in terms of nitty-gritty writing, we have some amazing struggles in Eddard's character. The shadow of his father. Haunted by promises kept, and promises broken. Family vs Duty. Love vs Justice. Making sons into men. Trying to guide she-wolf daughters, without getting bit, and without them biting each other.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Yeah, it's hard choosing between Eddard and Davos in terms of father-characters. Thankfully, we don't really have to
The whole nature vs nurture thing is so prevalent throughout the series it's hard to put a finger on only one instance of it at times, but I think GRRM makes it pretty explicit with Ned and Arya. Like, purposefully explicit.
I can't think of another parent/child relationship that does this in the series. We have many examples of parents trying to force their children to conform to family norms (Tywin, Balon, etc), but very few that seem to nurture their child's nature the way Eddard does with Needle.
Needle seems awfully important for such a tiny little sword. It's even named in the 1993 letter. I might have to do a Needle reread if this next book takes much longer. LOL
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
We see that in Davos as well. He doubts his own ability to mentor his sons because of his low upbringing. His desire to have his sons be better than he ever was is one of the things that also clicks with me. We all want are kids to have the advantages we didn't have, and to leave this world a better place then when they entered it.
Davos sat beside his candle and looked at the letters he had scratched out word by word during the days of his confinement. I was a better smuggler than a knight, he had written to his wife, a better knight than a King's Hand, a better King's Hand than a husband. I am so sorry. Marya, I have loved you. Please forgive the wrongs I did you. Should Stannis lose his war, our lands will be lost as well. Take the boys across the narrow sea to Braavos and teach them to think kindly of me, if you would. Should Stannis gain the Iron Throne, House Seaworth will survive and Devan will remain at court. He will help you place the other boys with noble lords, where they can serve as pages and squires and win their knighthoods. It was the best counsel he had for her, though he wished it sounded wiser. He had written to each of his three surviving sons as well, to help them remember the father who had bought them names with his fingertips. His notes to Steffon and young Stannis were short and stiff and awkward; if truth be told, he did not know them half as well as he had his older boys, the ones who'd burned or drowned upon the Blackwater. To Devan he wrote more, telling him how proud he was to see his own son as a king's squire and reminding him that as the eldest it was his duty to protect his lady mother and his younger brothers. Tell His Grace I did my best, he ended. I am sorry that I failed him. I lost my luck when I lost my fingerbones, the day the river burned below King's Landing.
The whole nature vs nurture thing is so prevalent throughout the series it's hard to put a finger on only one instance of it at times, but I think GRRM makes it pretty explicit with Ned and Arya. Like, purposefully explicit. I can't think of another parent/child relationship that does this in the series. We have many examples of parents trying to force their children to conform to family norms (Tywin, Balon, etc), but very few that seem to nurture their child's nature the way Eddard does with Needle.
It's not a parent/child relationship, but there's Dunk/Egg
"I will take your son as squire, Your Grace, but not at Summerhall. Not for a year or two. He's seen sufficient of castles, I would judge. I'll have him only if I can take him on the road with me." He pointed to old Chestnut. "He'll ride my steed, wear my old cloak, and he'll keep my sword sharp and my mail scoured. We'll sleep in inns and stables, and now and again in the halls of some landed knight or lesser lordling, and maybe under trees when we must." Prince Maekar gave him an incredulous look. "Did the trial addle your wits, man? Aegon is a prince of the realm. The blood of the dragon. Princes are not made for sleeping in ditches and eating hard salt beef." He saw Dunk hesitate. "What is it you're afraid to tell me? Say what you will, ser." "Daeron never slept in a ditch, I'll wager," Dunk said, very quietly, "and all the beef that Aerion ever ate was thick and rare and bloody, like as not." Maekar Targaryen, Prince of Summerhall, regarded Dunk of Flea Bottom for a long time, his jaw working silently beneath his silvery beard. Finally he turned and walked away, never speaking a word.
Aegon wasn't like his brothers probably by nature, but Dunk's forced life of a hedge knight made him even less like his brothers. Which was the whole reason why Dunk only agreed to squire him like a hedge knight, and why Maekar agreed to it, because they didn't want Aegon ending up like Daeron (a drunk with no ambition) or Aerion (an arrogant prince who thinks he's above everyone). It was about ensuring that Aegon got a different upbringing than his brothers did and therefore an attempt at molding him by nurture.
And the same can be said of Aegon VI. He was Rhaegar's son and should have had a life of luxury and comfort, with eventually a kingdom gifted to him. Instead
Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them."
He's had basically the same upbringing that Aegon V had, in once again an attempt to make him a better person than the rest of his family. It remains to be seen if it worked, but Aegon's life of exile has produced a vastly different person than he would have been had his life played out as it naturally would have without Robert's Rebellion
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
