Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
It could be, though "some dead character on the show" covers a lot more people than just Jojen. And my one big problem with it being Jojen is that that to me doesn't feel natural. This is supposedly a twist he came up with in the last year, and yet since ACOK we've been told that Jojen knows how he's going to die. So I'd imagine that gardener or not, GRRM should know fairly well what happens in Jojen's storyline. It would seem weird that he's suddenly coming up with twists to that story. We don't know how Jojen's supposed to die so it technically could be twisted fairly easily given that he never gave us information, just again this is supposedly new and I feel like Jojen should be fairly mapped out.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
It could be, though "some dead character on the show" covers a lot more people than just Jojen. And my one big problem with it being Jojen is that that to me doesn't feel natural. This is supposedly a twist he came up with in the last year, and yet since ACOK we've been told that Jojen knows how he's going to die. So I'd imagine that gardener or not, GRRM should know fairly well what happens in Jojen's storyline. It would seem weird that he's suddenly coming up with twists to that story. We don't know how Jojen's supposed to die so it technically could be twisted fairly easily given that he never gave us information, just again this is supposedly new and I feel like Jojen should be fairly mapped out.
Good point. Wasn't it supposed to be someone who is in a group with a few other characters? That would eliminate Arya, Sansa, Davos and Samwell I believe. Could mean Cersei, Margaery, Mel or Stannis though. It would be cool to see Cersei get it unexpectedly before her TbC.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Wasn't it supposed to be someone who is in a group with a few other characters?
Maybe Barristan? He knows or does something?
Or Myrcella? Actually doing something with Rosamund (who seems to just be dangling there as a double for no reason. . . )
I'm now trying to list in my head who's dead in the show but not the books.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Wasn't it supposed to be someone who is in a group with a few other characters?
Here's the original twist
In one intriguing new wrinkle, Martin says he just came up with a big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” he teases, “but I love it. I’m still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It’s a great twist. It’s easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it’s just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved… it all makes sense. But it’s nothing I’ve ever thought of before. And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”
So it's a character who's dead on the show, but not in the books, the twist involves 3-4 characters, it's organic and natural to the characters.
Honestly I feel like we're right where we were when he first revealed he was thinking about the twist and no closer to knowing which character it's about, except we know he actually went and did it now.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Barristan, fearing that Dany's dead as she hasn't returned, and not wanting to be stuck as ruler of Mereen like he currently is, hears about Aegon's invasion of Westoros and goes to serve the last Targaryen.
Barristan then becomes Dany's betrayal for blood.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Barristan, fearing that Dany's dead as she hasn't returned, and not wanting to be stuck as ruler of Mereen like he currently is, hears about Aegon's invasion of Westoros and goes to serve the last Targaryen.
Barristan then becomes Dany's betrayal for blood.
It would be a betrayal--and fit with the turmoil of his POVs.
But would he leave the woman who reminds him of Ashara??
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Barristan, fearing that Dany's dead as she hasn't returned, and not wanting to be stuck as ruler of Mereen like he currently is, hears about Aegon's invasion of Westoros and goes to serve the last Targaryen.
Barristan then becomes Dany's betrayal for blood.
While I like the idea, I just can't see it from Barry. He's just taken her husband captive for her attempted assassination. Seems like he'd want to see it through.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
He's just taken her husband captive for her attempted assassination. Seems like he'd want to see it through.
Well I was talking more in that only if it's really clear that Dany's just not coming back (which I think there's a chance of that whether this occurs or not - it's her revelation at the end of Dance that's she wasting her time). Like if it's been months or something, which is what it would take for Aegon's invasion to reach Meereen. When it's just clear that Barristan has no place in Meereen if Dany's not there as well.
As to the whole Hizdahr thing, I really don't see that being that much of an issue, especially in the above scenario when it's been months. At least to me, Hizdahr didn't poison the locusts. Months are plenty of time for Hizdahr to be found innocent and given his power back, and then Barristan becomes even more useless in Meereen if Dany's not there seeing as Hizdahr didn't even want his services prior to his imprisonment. I mean if it really looks like Dany's gone, or if she actually just plain does abandon Meereen, why would Barristan stay in Meereen?
Of course anything with Barristan does require that he first survive the Battle of Mereen which isn't a guarantee.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Well I was talking more in that only if it's really clear that Dany's just not coming back (which I think there's a chance of that whether this occurs or not - it's her revelation at the end of Dance that's she wasting her time). Like if it's been months or something, which is what it would take for Aegon's invasion to reach Meereen. When it's just clear that Barristan has no place in Meereen if Dany's not there as well.
A fari point--given his uncertainty re: what to do after Robert's death, I could see his getting confused.
Of course anything with Barristan does require that he first survive the Battle of Mereen which isn't a guarantee.
Yes--this is what I think is the plan for Barristan--I'm hoping he gets a "noble" death. But this is Martinlandia. Forcing Barristan the Bold to die of the Pale Mare--might fit Martin's twisted sense of injustice.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
I'll be pissed if Barristan dies just yet. He still has a lot of story to tell about the rebellion! I mean, he might know the Rhaegar Lyanna story and what exactly Ruckard and Brandon were doing there. I don't think we know the whole story about why just a handful of northerners rode to KL. If it was just because of Rhaegar, I mean why didn't they ride to Dorne- that's where he was before he marched north. It says so in the Storm chapter when Brienne and Jaime have dinner with Roose and Jaime has his flashbacks.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Could always be Mance. He's dead on the show. So is Jeyne/Talisa.
Except I think it goes without saying that we should be suspicious of Mance, his actions, and his movements (I'm starting to suspect the Wildlings the more I think about it, because them suddenly being all nice to Jon after he betrayed them just doesn't make a lick of sense).
Stannis/Shireen/Selyse are other popular candidates however what we see is what we get with them. I can't see a twist of identity popping up. I could see Stannis being revealed to have written the Pink Letter being used as a possible twist in order to get Jon to abandon the Night's Watch. Shireen I can't see any kind of twist with. Selyse is more likely.
Increasingly I'm drawn to Jeyne/Talisa for some reason (while GRRM dodged the bullet of admitting the character was dead in the first interview, he did mention it was a couple of decisions, and a death is just one of those decisions--not a couple). And I like the idea that Robb lives on through his son, and might end up Lord of Riverrun after a negotiation with the surviving Starks have established themselves in Winterfell. However Robb Jr.--well, Eddard Jr. since Jeyne mentioned possibly naming the child after Eddard in ASOS--only has so much potential to impact the plot, he's surrounded by enemies, and if anything I could see it as an attempt by whatever surviving Tullys (Stoneheart & Blackfish, with Edmure dead) to ensure that they win back the Riverlands from having Frey influence (perhaps by denying Edmure's child--especially should the child be a girl). And considering the child would be born posthumously, enough doubt could be put upon it that whoever takes Winterfell in the end won't feel as obligated to put Robb's son on the throne he belongs.
However, while I like the twist, I don't think the thought of Jeyne being pregnant or Jeyne being switched out would have "only just occurred to him" considering fans have been hinting at thinking this might happen in interviews for a while now.
Barristan has been foreshadowed to have issues with Dany, and she's going to face a betrayal for blood for a while now. I half wonder what Barry will do when he hears about Aegon's existence, however this would be keeping with everything that's been set up so far.
Myrcella is just waiting for a twist to happen to her with Rosamund the double sitting there IMO. Actually, what if Rosamund dies and is sent to Cersei as Myrcella, and Cersei believes the prophesy fulfilled, when we know it hasn't? That might be an interesting twist. But I'd hardly call it unforeshadowed.