I'd like to begin a forensic reread of the A Feast for Crows Prologue. Please join in with your thoughts! Here are the first three paragraphs to start the discussion....
“Dragons,” said Mollander. He snatched a withered apple off the ground and tossed it hand to hand.
“Throw the apple,” urged Alleras the Sphinx. He slipped an arrow from his quiver and nocked it to his bowstring.
“I should like to see a dragon.” Roone was the youngest of them, a chunky boy still two years shy of manhood. “I should like that very much.”
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
“I should like to see a dragon.” Roone was the youngest of them, a chunky boy still two years shy of manhood. “I should like that very much.”
Well, if Dany would get her act together, you might get your wish.
But Roone sounds a lot like Sam here. In this very brief moment.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Symbolism? What dragons do to all things living? Whither and waste.
Maybe the apples represent the dragons themselves? There are three of them aren't there? I have heard speculated that they are representative of the living Targaryans as well, but remember very little about the case for it. Also, in one of his early essays, LmL compared each of the apples to an orbit of the red comet, or something similar, I believe. He's since changed that essay, so I'm not sure if he still believes that or not?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
And I should like to sleep with Rosey's arms around me, Pate thought. He shifted restlessly on the bench. By the morrow the girl could well be his. I will take her far from Oldtown, across the narrow sea to one of the Free Cities. There were no maesters there, no one to accuse him.
He could hear Emma's laughter coming through a shuttered window overhead, mingled with the deeper voice of the man she was entertaining. She was the oldest of the serving wenches at the Quill and Tankard, forty if she was a day, but still pretty in a fleshy sort of way. Rosey was her daughter, fifteen and freshly flowered. Emma had decreed that Rosey's maidenhead would cost a golden dragon. Pate had saved nine silver stags and a pot of copper stars and pennies, for all the good that would do him. He would have stood a better chance of hatching a real dragon than saving up enough coin to make a golden one.
"You were born too late for dragons, lad," Armen the Acolyte told Roone. Armen wore a leather thong about his neck, strung with links of pewter, tin, lead, and copper, and like most acolytes he seemed to believe that novices had turnips growing from their shoulders in place of heads. "The last one perished during the reign of King Aegon the Third."
"The last dragon in Westeros," insisted Mollander.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Another underrated power in the books. The Rhoynar wield Water (not the cotf, folks)...and have been the only race of people in the series to defeat the dragonlords when they actually had dragonmounts.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Another underrated power in the books. The Rhoynar wield Water (not the cotf, folks)...and have been the only race of people in the series to defeat the dragonlords when they actually had dragonmounts.
Though this would be interesting if Dany really was cared for by the Orphans.
What would they want from her if they, too, are anti dragon?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
And I should like to sleep with Rosey's arms around me, Pate thought. He shifted restlessly on the bench. By the morrow the girl could well be his. I will take her far from Oldtown, across the narrow sea to one of the Free Cities. There were no maesters there, no one to accuse him.
The Targ dragons were born too late--their time is done.
Faith in the dragon (gold or fire) will lead young novices to despair.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Is this the parallel you are thinking for Lyanna? Either Arthur or Rhaegar?
Indeed it is.
I'm toying with the idea of Robert Baratheon as Pate.
not smart
only sees the girl's beauty
he never really knew her
poisoned
dies thinking of her
And Leo Tyrell as Rhaegar.
threatens to take the Rose(y) maiden from Pate (Robert).
is a fan of the higher mysteries
higher-born than Pate (Robert)
handsome
believes in dragons
Alleras is the Sphinx, and I think (s)he might be the stand-in for Arthur (hear me out. LOL)
"the sphinx was the riddle, not the riddler"
Dornish
a clue as to gender swap (again, if Sarella)
(if Sarella,) is a clue that the answer to a riddle it is not a man, but a woman (Jon's connection to WF)
keeper of secrets (smiling at a jape only "he" knows)
missed the last shot (died at the tower of joy)
slim, slight (like a sword)
eyes of onyx (might fit Arthur, might not, but it fits Jon)
A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion XI That seemed to amuse the sellsword.1 "Who told you that?" "No one. Most of the stories you hear about dragons are fodder for fools.2 Talking dragons, dragons hoarding gold and gems3, dragons with four legs4 and bellies big as elephants, dragons riddling with sphinxes5 … nonsense, all of it.6 But there are truths in the old books as well.7 Not only do I know that the queen's dragons took to you, but I know why."8
A swordsman
False stories about dragons? Sounds familiar to me.
False stories about dragons hoarding precious property? Sounds familiar to me.
False stories about dragons with four legs (like a wolf)? Aye, I've heard that one afore too, George.
dragons (Rhaegar) "riddling" with sphinxes (runaway women playing their own game, not where they are supposed to be)
Yup.
"truths" ...the riddle, not the riddler... an answer to a deeper question... one that relates to the swordsman.
Relatively off topic (for me anyway), but one of the most intriguing sentences in all the books. Why did the dragons take to Brown Ben Plumm? And why was it knowledge Tyrion could learn from a book, but Ben could not learn from his mother? And why did it surprise Dany? -- yet -- it made her take to Brown Ben the same as her dragons...
Edit: Sorry to go off topic. I haven't read this chapter is a while. These echoes were floating around in my head. Just had to get those out before sleep claimed me. And I should tag Maester Sam into the convo before we get too far in the reread.
Edit: Sorry to go off topic. I haven't read this chapter is a while. These echoes were floating around in my head. Just had to get those out before sleep claimed me. And I should tag Maester Sam into the convo before we get too far in the reread.
No worries--I'm going to come back to this once we get further into the prologue--not sure I remember it well enough to comment reasonably.
But I'm liking this so far.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Well seems to me that if you wanted to do symbolism of the apple to the dragons would be through eggs from which the dragons hatch. Dany didn't receive live eggs, she received petrified stones. Her eggs had withered away.
I'm toying with the idea of Robert Baratheon as Pate.
not smart
only sees the girl's beauty
he never really knew her
poisoned
dies thinking of her
And Leo Tyrell as Rhaegar.
threatens to take the Rose(y) maiden from Pate (Robert).
is a fan of the higher mysteries
higher-born than Pate (Robert)
handsome
believes in dragons
Not saying I don't see the parallels, just don't think you can really claim that Leo can represent Rhaegar by virtue of his being handsome, and Robert as Pate, considering that Robert himself was extremely handsome and Pate is... Pate lol. The parallel doesn't fit through physical looks because Pate doesn't mirror in this regard.
Everything else I can more or less see, just don't really see the claim for Leo's looks being a parallel, because you have to also acknowledge that Robert vastly differed Pate in this regard.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Not saying I don't see the parallels, just don't think you can really claim that Leo can represent Rhaegar by virtue of his being handsome, and Robert as Pate, considering that Robert himself was extremely handsome and Pate is... Pate lol. The parallel doesn't fit through physical looks because Pate doesn't mirror in this regard.
More a whim than a theory. But yes. LOL Bobby B was a muscled like a maiden's fantasy... and Pate... not so much.
There is another fella (Mollander?) present too iirc who is heavily muscled, and drunk. Might be that they all mirror Robert to a degree.
What stands out to me is that a rosey maiden child-woman is coveted, lusted, and never plucked. She's advertised as being available for a dragon...wink wink... yet the dragon never claims her. Pate dies with her name on his lips, mirroring Rhaegar, but the dragon was doomed. Rosey is still walking around without shoes, brushing elbows, and making guys jealous. Alleras alone seems to be close to her...
I'm not sure where it leads. The story has been folded upon itself and hammered again and again, but I think the ripples support the idea that Lyanna, while noticed, was not plucked for a dragon.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
What stands out to me is that a rosey maiden child-woman is coveted, lusted, and never plucked. She's advertised as being available for a dragon...wink wink... yet the dragon never claims her.
Yes, that could work.
And, given that the novels' prologues so far have been pretty significant, seems like delving further makes sense.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.