Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Post by whitewolfstark on Apr 18, 2016 23:32:50 GMT
I've been watching this all day, and I think this might help us understand why Quentyn is thus warned against being trusted if he has the potential for more future interactions with Dany.
At the same time it kinda contradicts the entire thematic premise of the set up of Dorne that's summed up by the overripe blood oranges falling to the ground and smashing that we see in Aero Hotah's first chapter (our first Dornish chapter), that the Dornish have waited too long to be important, that they're too late, and plans are overripe.
At the very least I think it's meant to at least be like this. We're told that Quentyn died sure, but if you look into the details more closely I think there's enough there to argue that he's possibly still alive. I'd argued it elsewhere using a lot of the same passages that PJ did, but like seems like that Brazen Beast fellow fits the description better than Quentyn does. At the very least, the fact that the corpse had most of it's face burnt off means that it wasn't truly identifiable.
Plus as you touch on, why does Dany keep getting warned about "the sun's son" if Quentyn's dead? It could just refer to Aegon, as Aegon being Elia's son can be the sun's son, but doesn't seem to fit better than Quentyn does as Aegon would be the dragon's son going by how family's work patrilinieally in ASOIAf, and it especially doesn't work if Aegon is "the mummer's dragon" as Quaithe warns her about both of these people implying that they're two separate people. So who's the "sun's son" if not Quentyn?
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Yes--no way any of this is conclusive--prestonjacobs says as much. And the analysis of the whip and the heat temperatures in real life seemed. . . . a bit much at times.
seems like that Brazen Beast fellow fits the description better than Quentyn does. At the very least, the fact that the corpse had most of it's face burnt off means that it wasn't truly identifiable.
This. Plus the analysis of the convo with Barristan after the dragons roasted their marshmallows. That convo really does seem off. And none of them all trusts the other.
Plus as you touch on, why does Dany keep getting warned about "the sun's son" if Quentyn's dead? It could just refer to Aegon, as Aegon being Elia's son can be the sun's son, but doesn't seem to fit better than Quentyn does as Aegon would be the dragon's son going by how family's work patrilinieally in ASOIAf, and it especially doesn't work if Aegon is "the mummer's dragon" as Quaithe warns her about both of these people implying that they're two separate people. So who's the "sun's son" if not Quentyn?
Very true--though one could argue she was warned, never met him, and the threat went away.
But that makes his threat less a "threat" and more of a social annoyance.
Seems like there's a decent chance Quentyn is a future threat, still.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
And the analysis of the whip and the heat temperatures in real life seemed. . . . a bit much at times.
I agree, but for a different reason than you probably do. My reason being that Dany stared down Drogon with a whip. I'm admittedly too lazy to do the research here lol, but I know that Quentyn only tries to tame Viserion after Dany had tamed Drogon with nothing but a whip. So he likely chose to take a whip with him in the first place precisely because he'd just seen Dany use one to do exactly what he wants to do.
And Dany's whip never caught fire, and Dany actually does get hit with a "furnace wind" that was hot enough to blister her skin and burn away all her hair. So her whip should've caught fire if this was what happened to Quentyn.
Quentyn catching fire really no matter how you slice it is a mystery seeing as he was never hit with any dragon fire, and Dany herself came away, relatively speaking, fine from the exact same type of "furnace wind" that is all that ever hit Quentyn.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
While my own crackpot is the Quentyn that was sent to Mereen isn't the real one. This would be a decent enough alternative. Not sure I believe it but PJ made some good points.
markg171, all that Quaithe prophecy is just BS. She just used the candles to see who was on the way to Mereen at the point in time.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
I agree, but for a different reason than you probably do. My reason being that Dany stared down Drogon with a whip. I'm admittedly too lazy to do the research here lol, but I know that Quentyn only tries to tame Viserion after Dany had tamed Drogon with nothing but a whip. So he likely chose to take a whip with him in the first place precisely because he'd just seen Dany use one to do exactly what he wants to do.
And Dany's whip never caught fire, and Dany actually does get hit with a "furnace wind" that was hot enough to blister her skin and burn away all her hair. So her whip should've caught fire if this was what happened to Quentyn.
An excellent point.
Any chance his whip burned because the dragons are bigger???
Quentyn catching fire really no matter how you slice it is a mystery seeing as he was never hit with any dragon fire, and Dany herself came away, relatively speaking, fine from the exact same type of "furnace wind" that is all that ever hit Quentyn.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
