What do people think of these? Especially the parts on House Darry? I am starting work on the "Grand Darry Conspiracy" and a big inspiration is these videos.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
This will help preview my Darry theory. Although I just accidentally lost several pages of writing and quotes.
I will post a small preview of my ideas here. This is very barebones and for that I apologize. Darry characters and Darry lands have been playing a role in ASOIAF for most of the story.
The Frey-Darry rivalry is due to the betrayal of House Frey not showing up on the Trident. The Darry's have two intermarriages with Frey's and both the Frey's have been killed in the story. Raymun Darry's three older brothers died on the Trident fighting for Rhaegar. This is part of the conspiracy along with bringing down the current usurper regime. The Darry's are huge Targaryen supporters to trying to bring down the Usurper makes perfect sense.
Raymun Darry saw the sparks of enmity between the Starks, Lannisters, and Baratheon while they were staying at Castle Darry. Raymun Darry came to King's Landing to fan the flames and blame attacks on Gregor Clegane, the Mountain. Raymun joins Berric's crew and is supposedly killed by the Mountain. What if the BWB spread rumors of his death while he is leading another cell of outlaws? He also could be hiding in Riverrun as disguised as Rymund the Rhymer.
Lord Darry, Raymun's father also brother of Willem and Jonothor. I think he is the man who ends up becoming the High Sparrow. He is in perfect position to help end the Baratheon/Lannister regime. Also Lancel the new Lord of Darry gives up his lands and titles and joins the Faith Militant. Also Jaime notes the Sparrows are all over Darry. Also Bryden "Blackfish" Tully and Norbert Vance squired for Lord Darry in their youth.
Raymun's son Lyman is supposedly killed by the Mountain. By the only report on it are Blackfish and Tom O'Sevens a member of the BWB. The same one whose cousin Pate of the Blue Fork was married to "Gatehouse" Amy, the later wife of Lancel. Pate is of course killed by the Mountain and yet his own cousin has no knowledge of his death. With Lancel's removal the land is once again in the hands of members of House Darry.
The Elder Brother is the one who gives us the line on the Frey/Darry rivalry. It made me think he is a member of House Darry that survived the Trident. Raymun's three older brothers are possible candidates also Jonothor Darry of the Kingsguard. He is the only major member of the Targaryen forces whose death has no detail. After Sandor Clegane is hiding on the Quiet Isle, surely there is room for one more ex Kingsguard member?
Cleos Frey was married to Jeyne Darry. He accomplined Jaime and Brienne through the Riverlands and was killed by outlaws in lands not too far from Darry lands. His cause of death was his head literally "plowing" a field. The sigil of Darry is a brown Plowman. Also Brienne is riding a brown plow horse. . Mariya Darry was married to Merritt Frey, who was hung by Lady Stoneheart and the BWB. She is the mother of Gatehouse Ami.
So the Lords of Darry help start the War of Five Kings then fake their deaths and secretly turn outlaw. They know that the Riverlands will be at the forefront of this war and most Darry forces escape the other battles the destroy other Houses. With the male line "ended" the lands should have passed to Jeyne or Mariya Darry or their kids. This would bring them back to the lands of Darry and make them easy picking for the "outlaws" in the area. Instead the Lannisters married Lancel to Ami and seize the lands for themselves. Lancel is later persuaded to join the Faith Militant, likely by the Elder Brother. This returns the lands of Darry to proper members of House Darry.
The Darry outlaws and other members of the BWB are ready to unleash revenge on the Lannisters and Freys.
With the rise of the Faith Militant and the Sparrow movement the outlaws and sparrows look virtually identical. Scruffy armed men, sparrows wear the red star of the seven, which would be incredibly easy to put on and remove. Interesting to note that Yugoslavian Communist Partisans also wore a red star and also practiced guerilla warfare.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Cleos Frey was married to Jeyne Darry. He accomplined Jaime and Brienne through the Riverlands and was killed by outlaws in lands not too far from Darry lands. His cause of death was his head literally "plowing" a field. The sigil of Darry is a brown Plowman. Also Brienne is riding a brown plow horse.
Oaky--I must confess I didn't trust you on this until I'd looked it up. That's exactly how he's described.
"Who else? The last I saw of cousin Cleos, his palfrey was using his head to plow a furrow. Though I suppose we ought to find him. He is a Lannister of sorts." Storm, Jaime III.
Which, even if the rest of your argument hadn't been so strong, would have helped sell me on the rest of your argument.
This is a very interesting idea--that the Riverlands are basically reasserting themselves.
I'm also wondering if the Freys were with the Lannisters during Robert's Rebellion. Thus, not just late, but complicit.
I'm about to put up a theory fleshing out multiple conversations re: Tywin's being behind Lyanna's disappearance. Part of that speculation is that the Freys might have helped him do it.
But if that ends up holding, the Darrys' and smallfolks' pushback against the Freys might be more than just their ties to the Lannisters and being late. The Freys have now risen for their treachery. While the Darrys were undone by their loyalty. And the Freys may have been treacherous from the start.
One question--if the Elder Brother is a Darry, do you see him as re-embracign the conflict or as trying to help with peace? If he is a Darry, his staying on the Quiet Isle might not be much help.
Or are you seeing something that I should see but am stupidly missing?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
What do people think of these? Especially the parts on House Darry? I am starting work on the "Grand Darry Conspiracy" and a big inspiration is these videos.
I'm glad Sly Wren posted because I meant to comment on this thread and never did.
Viserys' assessment foreshadowed the wot5k, and House Darry helped start it.
The hidden tapestries really drive the point home imo. I never realized Jonothor was missing. Makes me wonder about all the wackiness @prettypig laid out, and the contradictions markg171 laid out regarding Willem.
It also makes me think of the missing maester, Wyllas. Might he have been a Darry once? ...abandoning the Starks to raise Dany?
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
The Frey-Darry rivalry is due to the betrayal of House Frey not showing up on the Trident. The Darry's have two intermarriages with Frey's and both the Frey's have been killed in the story. Raymun Darry's three older brothers died on the Trident fighting for Rhaegar. This is part of the conspiracy along with bringing down the current usurper regime. The Darry's are huge Targaryen supporters to trying to bring down the Usurper makes perfect sense.
Yup. I'm seeing it. It makes perfect sense with the tension at the Trident as well. House Darry played reluctant host to the Usurper and his dogs: Lannister and Stark. That is a tough pill to swallow, and would certainly have provided some extra motivation.
I've long held that the third shadow looming over Ned's family at the Trident is the King's Justice. Ilyn Payne just happens to be the contemporary incarnation of the King's Justice, but I believe he looms over Ned at the Trident in particular because that is where the usurpers undid the dragonkings. That created a mini-miasma (LOL sorry, but I see all this shit in terms of Miamsa, and I can finally start using the word!) for which Ned must needs atone.
It came to pass, on the steps of the Great Sept of Baelor Targaryen. King's Justice, Ice wielded by Ilyn Payne, in service to the Stag with shattered antlers (the antlers of the stag carry House Baratheon's crown...and the Lions stole it via treachery in the form of twincest), slicing off the head of the Stark away from Winterfell. It all bespeaks a cosmic justice imo. The Lion had served the Dragonprince (imo), and now, the Lion is finally able to slay the usurper-kings. First Robert, then Ned. King-slayers, aye, but they first slew Madness, then Drunkeness, then the Quiet Wolf haunted by broken promises, ghosts, and rebellion. Maggy the Frog's prophecy will come true, if only to root out the Lions and force them to atone for supporting the Usurpers.
It all bespeaks a looming miasma created at the Trident by Ned and Robert when they smashed the intelligent and dutiful prince who was filled with promise rather than lust. Ilyn Payne saw to it, but where did the power lie? Where did it originate? It came from the Prince of Dragonstone kneeling to Robert Baratheon in rush of the Trident.
Raymun Darry saw the sparks of enmity between the Starks, Lannisters, and Baratheon while they were staying at Castle Darry. Raymun Darry came to King's Landing to fan the flames and blame attacks on Gregor Clegane, the Mountain. Raymun joins Berric's crew and is supposedly killed by the Mountain. What if the BWB spread rumors of his death while he is leading another cell of outlaws? He also could be hiding in Riverrun as disguised as Rymund the Rhymer.
Yup. It all sounds very Targaryen/Blackfire in execution and method really. We have ample examples of them going about in disguise in Dunk and Egg.
Lord Darry, Raymun's father also brother of Willem and Jonothor. I think he is the man who ends up becoming the High Sparrow. He is in perfect position to help end the Baratheon/Lannister regime. Also Lancel the new Lord of Darry gives up his lands and titles and joins the Faith Militant. Also Jaime notes the Sparrows are all over Darry. Also Bryden "Blackfish" Tully and Norbert Vance squired for Lord Darry in their youth.
I can see it. Certainly Lancel's brainwashing was not so obvious as Theon-Reek, but it is nonetheless evident. The brainwashing of titled, landed lordlings cannot be without political purpose. Even Ramsay had his. There is a method to the madness, whether it be religious or sacrilegious (and really, I think GRRM wants us to equate the two).
Raymun's son Lyman is supposedly killed by the Mountain. By the only report on it are Blackfish and Tom O'Sevens a member of the BWB. The same one whose cousin Pate of the Blue Fork was married to "Gatehouse" Amy, the later wife of Lancel. Pate is of course killed by the Mountain and yet his own cousin has no knowledge of his death. With Lancel's removal the land is once again in the hands of members of House Darry.
Yup. It all adds up. And the inconsistencies you raise that do not add up only support your premise all the more.
The Elder Brother is the one who gives us the line on the Frey/Darry rivalry. It made me think he is a member of House Darry that survived the Trident. Raymun's three older brothers are possible candidates also Jonothor Darry of the Kingsguard. He is the only major member of the Targaryen forces whose death has no detail. After Sandor Clegane is hiding on the Quiet Isle, surely there is room for one more ex Kingsguard member?
Cleos Frey was married to Jeyne Darry. He accomplined Jaime and Brienne through the Riverlands and was killed by outlaws in lands not too far from Darry lands. His cause of death was his head literally "plowing" a field. The sigil of Darry is a brown Plowman. Also Brienne is riding a brown plow horse. . Mariya Darry was married to Merritt Frey, who was hung by Lady Stoneheart and the BWB. She is the mother of Gatehouse Ami.
We also met a squealing young Lord Frey in the Mystery Knight, where House Butterwell held a tourney commemorating its marriage to a Lady of Frey.
The Mystery Knight
The bride's father followed close behind her, hand in hand with his young son. Lord Frey of the Crossing was a lean man elegant in blue and grey, his heir a chinless boy of four whose nose was dripping snot. Lords Costayne and Risley came next, with their lady wives, daughters of Lord Butterwell by his first wife. Frey's daughters followed with their own husbands. Then came Lord Gormon Peake; Lords Smallwood, and Shawney; various lesser lords and landed knights. Amongst them Dunk glimpsed John the Fiddler and Alyn Cockshaw. Lord Alyn looked to be in his cups, though the feast had not yet properly begun.
That tourney also happened to be a pretext for supporters of a Blackfyre Prince.
Mayhaps part of House Frey and House Darry's dis-alliance comes from House Frey being only semi-loyal to House Targaryen. RR is one example, but hardly the first.
So the Lords of Darry help start the War of Five Kings then fake their deaths and secretly turn outlaw. They know that the Riverlands will be at the forefront of this war and most Darry forces escape the other battles the destroy other Houses. With the male line "ended" the lands should have passed to Jeyne or Mariya Darry or their kids. This would bring them back to the lands of Darry and make them easy picking for the "outlaws" in the area. Instead the Lannisters married Lancel to Ami and seize the lands for themselves. Lancel is later persuaded to join the Faith Militant, likely by the Elder Brother. This returns the lands of Darry to proper members of House Darry.
The Darry outlaws and other members of the BWB are ready to unleash revenge on the Lannisters and Freys.
With the rise of the Faith Militant and the Sparrow movement the outlaws and sparrows look virtually identical. Scruffy armed men, sparrows wear the red star of the seven, which would be incredibly easy to put on and remove. Interesting to note that Yugoslavian Communist Partisans also wore a red star and also practiced guerilla warfare.
Had never considered this but it seems quite intentional now that you point it out.
Which, even if the rest of your argument hadn't been so strong, would have helped sell me on the rest of your argument.
This is a very interesting idea--that the Riverlands are basically reasserting themselves.
I'm also wondering if the Freys were with the Lannisters during Robert's Rebellion. Thus, not just late, but complicit.
Yup. I think so. They too had already intermarried, which is strange considering House Tully dismissed such betrothals. This would have pushed the Trolls of the Bridge towards the Lions.
And, per my Catspaw Assassin theory, I contend that the Lions were ever allied with Rhaegar against his father Aerys.
It makes for multiple webs of loyalty all overlapping, crisscrossing, and at times connecting to each other. Some of these webs seem very isolated, like the Freys. I'm not sure if they are truly loyal to anyone aside from themselves. I still cling to the notion that House Lannister was loyal to Rhaegar, but Maester Sam has certainly planted seeds of doubt in my mind regarding that.
I'm about to put up a theory fleshing out multiple conversations re: Tywin's being behind Lyanna's disappearance. Part of that speculation is that the Freys might have helped him do it.
It would make a lot of sense. Looking forward to it!
But if that ends up holding, the Darrys' and smallfolks' pushback against the Freys might be more than just their ties to the Lannisters and being late. The Freys have now risen for their treachery. While the Darrys were undone by their loyalty. And the Freys may have been treacherous from the start.
It does indeed imply a tide. I'm completely sold on Wraith's notion of the Darry's as Targaryen loyalists. I mean, we're given the sentiment rather directly in the books, and unless they alone are the inert house in Westeros, it makes sense that they are actually subversive players in the game.
Like Viserys, it also makes sense to me that they would hold the Lions in low regard following their alliance with Robert. They might have started out on Rhaegar's side, but they certainly didn't end fighting for him.
One question--if the Elder Brother is a Darry, do you see him as re-embracign the conflict or as trying to help with peace? If he is a Darry, his staying on the Quiet Isle might not be much help.
Or are you seeing something that I should see but am stupidly missing?
I of course cannot answer for Wraith, but my interp would be that the Elder Brother, BWB, and the Faith Militant are all paving the way for Aegon VI. I've long felt that Aegon's Landing would be smooth as silk, and that he would take the Iron Throne as easily as one might pull up a seat at their own table.
The only question then, in my mind, is if it is actually his table. Whether he is a Blackfyre or Rhaegar's son makes little difference to me. A bastard is still family. But if he is actually some random boy sired or purchased by Illyrio, it might demonstrate a new brand of usurpation.
...one that stems from the Free Cities, rather than Valyria.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Cleos Frey was married to Jeyne Darry. He accomplined Jaime and Brienne through the Riverlands and was killed by outlaws in lands not too far from Darry lands. His cause of death was his head literally "plowing" a field. The sigil of Darry is a brown Plowman. Also Brienne is riding a brown plow horse.
Oaky--I must confess I didn't trust you on this until I'd looked it up. That's exactly how he's described.
"Who else? The last I saw of cousin Cleos, his palfrey was using his head to plow a furrow. Though I suppose we ought to find him. He is a Lannister of sorts." Storm, Jaime III.
Which, even if the rest of your argument hadn't been so strong, would have helped sell me on the rest of your argument.
This is a very interesting idea--that the Riverlands are basically reasserting themselves.
I'm also wondering if the Freys were with the Lannisters during Robert's Rebellion. Thus, not just late, but complicit.
I'm about to put up a theory fleshing out multiple conversations re: Tywin's being behind Lyanna's disappearance. Part of that speculation is that the Freys might have helped him do it.
But if that ends up holding, the Darrys' and smallfolks' pushback against the Freys might be more than just their ties to the Lannisters and being late. The Freys have now risen for their treachery. While the Darrys were undone by their loyalty. And the Freys may have been treacherous from the start.
One question--if the Elder Brother is a Darry, do you see him as re-embracign the conflict or as trying to help with peace? If he is a Darry, his staying on the Quiet Isle might not be much help.
Or are you seeing something that I should see but am stupidly missing?
I will be sure to have that quote in the full version.
I think Walder Frey is mostly an opportunist but it is possible that he is been with Tywin since the married of Tywin's sister to Walder's son. Looking forward to seeing the theory on Tywin's machinations during the Rebellion.
As far as the Elder Brother goes... I'm am unsure of his greater purpose. I think he will be heal Sandor Clegane who will eventually become a "true knight." As voice, said they will help pave the way for Aegon or Dany.
voice, thanks for all the feedback I will start addressing it in the near future. I need to read your idea on miasmas.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
This also ties into the Wacky Willem threads, but I just had to mention this quote I came across today. I think it further supports your position Wraith :
A Game of Thrones - Catelyn V The rain obscured the fields beyond the crossroads, but Catelyn saw the land clear enough in her memory. The marketplace was just across the way, and the village a mile farther on, half a hundred white cottages surrounding a small stone sept. There would be more now; the summer had been long and peaceful. North of here the kingsroad ran along the Green Fork of the Trident, through fertile valleys and green woodlands, past thriving towns and stout holdfasts and the castles of the river lords. Catelyn knew them all: the Blackwoods and the Brackens, ever enemies, whose quarrels her father was obliged to settle; Lady Whent, last of her line, who dwelt with her ghosts in the cavernous vaults of Harrenhal; irascible Lord Frey, who had outlived seven wives and filled his twin castles with children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, and bastards and grandbastards as well. All of them were bannermen to the Tullys, their swords sworn to the service of Riverrun. Catelyn wondered if that would be enough, if it came to war. Her father was the staunchest man who'd ever lived, and she had no doubt that he would call his banners … but would the banners come? The Darrys and Rygers and Mootons had sworn oaths to Riverrun as well, yet they had fought with Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident, while Lord Frey had arrived with his levies well after the battle was over, leaving some doubt as to which army he had planned to join (theirs, he had assured the victors solemnly in the aftermath, but ever after her father had called him the Late Lord Frey). It must not come to war, Catelyn thought fervently. They must not let it.
Okay. So of course the loyalty of House Frey was questionable, and plays out in spectacular fashion at the Red Wedding. It diverts our attention away from the Darrys, Rygers, and Mootons however. It is rather interesting that they jumped ship to remain with the Dragon instead of their own Riverlords.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
This also ties into the Wacky Willem threads, but I just had to mention this quote I came across today. I think it further supports your position Wraith :
A Game of Thrones - Catelyn V The rain obscured the fields beyond the crossroads, but Catelyn saw the land clear enough in her memory. The marketplace was just across the way, and the village a mile farther on, half a hundred white cottages surrounding a small stone sept. There would be more now; the summer had been long and peaceful. North of here the kingsroad ran along the Green Fork of the Trident, through fertile valleys and green woodlands, past thriving towns and stout holdfasts and the castles of the river lords. Catelyn knew them all: the Blackwoods and the Brackens, ever enemies, whose quarrels her father was obliged to settle; Lady Whent, last of her line, who dwelt with her ghosts in the cavernous vaults of Harrenhal; irascible Lord Frey, who had outlived seven wives and filled his twin castles with children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, and bastards and grandbastards as well. All of them were bannermen to the Tullys, their swords sworn to the service of Riverrun. Catelyn wondered if that would be enough, if it came to war. Her father was the staunchest man who'd ever lived, and she had no doubt that he would call his banners … but would the banners come? The Darrys and Rygers and Mootons had sworn oaths to Riverrun as well, yet they had fought with Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident, while Lord Frey had arrived with his levies well after the battle was over, leaving some doubt as to which army he had planned to join (theirs, he had assured the victors solemnly in the aftermath, but ever after her father had called him the Late Lord Frey). It must not come to war, Catelyn thought fervently. They must not let it.
Okay. So of course the loyalty of House Frey was questionable, and plays out in spectacular fashion at the Red Wedding. It diverts our attention away from the Darrys, Rygers, and Mootons however. It is rather interesting that they jumped ship to remain with the Dragon instead of their own Riverlords.
The Mootons have been on my radar since Myles Mooton was Rhaegar's squire but he was killed at the Battle of the Bells (I think). The currently Lord Mooton is a coward and has been hiding in his castle the whole story. Well until Randyll Tarly came to clean up Maidenpool. Interestingly he also married Dickon to the eldest Mooton daughter. Since I think Randyll Tarly is one of the Golden Companies "friends in the Reach" there could be some kind of connection, but I don't have anything really.
We haven't seen too much of House Ryger. One was the captain of the guards at Riverrun (odd considering his family recently fought against the Tully's). Another is a friend of a friend of Edmure Tully's. Also Jaime notes they aren't at the siege of Riverrun. Perhaps they are helping the BWB? Again I don't have anything to support this.
Also its not unknown for a House to side with the King over there own Lord Paramount. They swear to both after all, which do you choose? Also its interesting to note that at the start of the Rebellion the Vale, Riverlands, and Stormlands all had Lords that stayed loyal to the Targs. None in the North, not even the Boltons.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Okay. So of course the loyalty of House Frey was questionable, and plays out in spectacular fashion at the Red Wedding. It diverts our attention away from the Darrys, Rygers, and Mootons however. It is rather interesting that they jumped ship to remain with the Dragon instead of their own Riverlords.
YUP! And this is right before Cat takes Tyrion, right? In the Riverlands, not many leagues from Harrenhal. Where Lyanna was taken.
Which seems to again point to Cat's taking Tyrion as a hint at what happened with Lyanna.
And, back to Wraith's point, the Riverlands is where the rebellion began and "ended." Which would make sense that it's the place this part of the current civil war will end again, no?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Okay. So of course the loyalty of House Frey was questionable, and plays out in spectacular fashion at the Red Wedding. It diverts our attention away from the Darrys, Rygers, and Mootons however. It is rather interesting that they jumped ship to remain with the Dragon instead of their own Riverlords.
YUP! And this is right before Cat takes Tyrion, right? In the Riverlands, not many leagues from Harrenhal. Where Lyanna was taken.
Which seems to again point to Cat's taking Tyrion as a hint at what happened with Lyanna.
And, back to Wraith 's point, the Riverlands is where the rebellion began and "ended." Which would make sense that it's the place this part of the current civil war will end again, no?
She could have been taken at the Inn at the Crossroads for all we know. So many important events just happen to take place there. I think Harrenhal will have a role to play before the end. Many powerful men have shown interest in it: Tywin, Roose, Petyr. Its next to the God's Eye, and close to the Trident. Dany sees herself fighting near the Trident, I figure it will be close to the final battle. Then Harrenhal will be rebuilt as the new Capitol of Westeros.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
She could have been taken at the Inn at the Crossroads for all we know. So many important events just happen to take place there.
First up: sorry to take so long to get back to this--I keep finding arguments that I've missed for ages.
Second up: agreed. Or even run off from there, as Arya runs off from a close by area and ends up in Castle Darry to be judged. While Sansa is dragged into the same room and makes her huge mistake re: lying. Though, let's face it, they would have killed Lady anyway--so, maybe Lyanna was done once she got nabbed.
I think Harrenhal will have a role to play before the end. Many powerful men have shown interest in it: Tywin, Roose, Petyr. Its next to the God's Eye, and close to the Trident. Dany sees herself fighting near the Trident, I figure it will be close to the final battle. Then Harrenhal will be rebuilt as the new Capitol of Westeros.
On Harrenhal--I could very much see it being the sight or staging ground of the Final Battle with Dany. Aegon defeated with his dragons and left Harrenhal a haunted ruin. If Dany falls in the Riverlands either at the Trident or at Harrenhal--if it's at Harrenhal that Drogon is killed (which I think is likely--killed by Jaime or Brienne is my current pet theory)--that would be a reversal.
Perhaps too tidy of a reversal, but still.
As for Harrenhal as the new capitol--if Kings Landing goes boom as seems very likely, they'd need a new capitol if and only if the country stays unified. I'm thinking the North with still be just the North, but who knows?
But I could also see Harrenhal being taken out entirely in the Riverlands. It's almost like the Titanic of Castles: too big and too prideful to stand. Wash the slate clean and bash the ghosts.
Back to your OP: I like the idea that both the Freys and the Darrys were involved in starting the War. And that they were both involved in Robbs Rebellion on opposite sides.
And I'm now hoping the Darrys somehow end up with the Twins. . .
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
I think Harrenhal will have a role to play before the end. Many powerful men have shown interest in it: Tywin, Roose, Petyr. Its next to the God's Eye,
yes I agree and there is unfinished business there
On Harrenhal--I could very much see it being the sight or staging ground of the Final Battle with Dany. Aegon defeated with his dragons and left Harrenhal a haunted ruin. If Dany falls in the Riverlands either at the Trident or at Harrenhal--if it's at Harrenhal that Drogon is killed (which I think is likely--killed by Jaime or Brienne is my current pet theory)--that would be a reversal.
not quite a ruin, a semi ruin.
Harrenhal, built on the misery of the riverlanders and from the destruction of weirwoods, by Harren the Black, needs to be cleansed and I would not be surprised if Drogon, the black dragon, finished the job that Balerion, the black dread, started.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
She could have been taken at the Inn at the Crossroads for all we know. So many important events just happen to take place there.
First up: sorry to take so long to get back to this--I keep finding arguments that I've missed for ages.
Second up: agreed. Or even run off from there, as Arya runs off from a close by area and ends up in Castle Darry to be judged. While Sansa is dragged into the same room and makes her huge mistake re: lying. Though, let's face it, they would have killed Lady anyway--so, maybe Lyanna was done once she got nabbed.
I think Harrenhal will have a role to play before the end. Many powerful men have shown interest in it: Tywin, Roose, Petyr. Its next to the God's Eye, and close to the Trident. Dany sees herself fighting near the Trident, I figure it will be close to the final battle. Then Harrenhal will be rebuilt as the new Capitol of Westeros.
On Harrenhal--I could very much see it being the sight or staging ground of the Final Battle with Dany. Aegon defeated with his dragons and left Harrenhal a haunted ruin. If Dany falls in the Riverlands either at the Trident or at Harrenhal--if it's at Harrenhal that Drogon is killed (which I think is likely--killed by Jaime or Brienne is my current pet theory)--that would be a reversal.
Perhaps too tidy of a reversal, but still.
As for Harrenhal as the new capitol--if Kings Landing goes boom as seems very likely, they'd need a new capitol if and only if the country stays unified. I'm thinking the North with still be just the North, but who knows?
But I could also see Harrenhal being taken out entirely in the Riverlands. It's almost like the Titanic of Castles: too big and too prideful to stand. Wash the slate clean and bash the ghosts.
Back to your OP: I like the idea that both the Freys and the Darrys were involved in starting the War. And that they were both involved in Robbs Rebellion on opposite sides.
And I'm now hoping the Darrys somehow end up with the Twins. . .
Well I have an interesting quote from the Princess and the Queen.
Beyond the city walls, fighting continued throughout the Seven Kingdoms. In the riverlands, Ser Criston Cole abandoned Harrenhal, striking south along the western shore of the Gods Eye, with thirty-six hundred men behind him (death, disease, and desertion had thinned the ranks that had ridden forth from King’s Landing). Prince Aemon had already departed, flying Vhagar. No longer tied to castle or host, the one-eyed prince was free to fly where he would. It was war as Aegon the Conquerer and his sisters had once waged it, fought with dragonflame, as Vhagar descended from the autumn sky again and again to lay waste to the lands and villages and castles of the river lords. House Darry was the first to know the prince’s wroth. The men bringing in the harvest burned or fled as the crops went up in flame, and Castle Darry was consumed in a firestorm. Lady Darry and her younger children survived by taking shelter in vaults under the keep, but her lord husband and his heir died on their battlements, together with two score of his sworn swords and bowmen. Three days later, it was Lord Harroway’s Town left smoking. Lord’s Mill, Blackbuckle, Buckle, Claypool, Swynford, Spiderwood … Vhagar’s fury fell on each in turn, until half the riverlands seemed ablaze.
Could have the young Lord Lyman hid in these vaults than secreted away after the battle? It would be poetic justice to see the Darry's take the Twins, I don't think the Frey's will survive the series.
Also we see a similar thing (a secret room) in the memories of Jon Connington. I wonder if many castles have such secrets? Another would be the hidden passageways of Winterfell that Bran knows of.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Well I have an interesting quote from the Princess and the Queen.
WHOA! That is a VERY interesting quote! Well done, ser!
Okay, so we've already got the Blackfish likely getting out of Riverrun in a sneaky way, A Riverlands lord "saved" sneakily.
And we've got Mance's baby saved and possibly Aegon saved--the idea of a Darry being out there . . . I could see that.
And would explain why Martin keeps bringing them up--as you say, he's planning to use them. But if he's got a Darry out there ready to come back, he's laid his groundwork.
Also we see a similar thing (a secret room) in the memories of Jon Connington. I wonder if many castles have such secrets? Another would be the hidden passageways of Winterfell that Bran knows of.
Agreed. And the Red Keep's many tunnels and hidden places. And possibly Dragonstone, too. Lots of places for Martin to play with.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Harrenhal, built on the misery of the riverlanders and from the destruction of weirwoods, by Harren the Black, needs to be cleansed and I would not be surprised if Drogon, the black dragon, finished the job that Balerion, the black dread, started.
A good point re: the ruin.
Aegean left Harrenhal a liminal space--not destroyed, not intact. Full of stories of ghosts and bats and no one house can hold Harrenhal for long.
And yes--it would be very interesting if Drogon took it down for good. Dragon seems unlikely to be anywhere as big as Balerion. I could see the Riverlanders using Harrenhal as a staging ground--everyone else does in other conflicts--when Dany invades. And the battle takes down Harrenhal.
But I could also see Drogon being taken down at the same time.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.