Post by Maester Sam on Apr 6, 2016 22:44:36 GMT
And neither Ned nor Jon Con blame Rhaegar. Jon Con lost everything, Ned gained a brother on the throne. Yet, the first only mourns Rhaegar's defeat, while the second ALSO MOURNS RHAEGAR'S DEFEAT. Shouldn't Ned be happy if his family prevailed and helped mend the realm? Clearly, he knows it was a false victory of a war founded upon false pretense. Our author writes amazing battles, but is quite anti-war.
Interesting point! While I wouldn't go as far as saying Ned mourns Rhaegar's defeat, I agree that if it had been up to him, he would have let Rhaegar's family live. In fact, maybe that's why he raced ahead of the wounded Robert. (Why would they be in a hurry to go after the Targ soldiers? They expected closed gates and a long siege, there was no need to rush...). Ned wanted to get there first, and offer them safe passage across the Narrow Sea. Maybe he would have even taken Aegon as his ward/hostage. But then the Lannisters ruined everything...
Ok, wow, this just led my mind on a tangent.... CRACKPOT alert!
What if Lyanna was on Dragonstone??? Wouldn't it be a natural place for Rhaegar to bring her? Isolated, safe, AND it's the place of salt and smoke where the PTWP is supposed to be born (and where his other two children were born). I know, I know. RLJ. But without the TOJ, at least, lol!
Ok, so here it is: Ned left KL in a cold rage. He went to Dorne, killing some KG on his way down, and spent some time with Ashara. By the time he left Dorne, he had Jon with him. [He wouldn't have traveled home alone, or with only two or three guys. So it would be known if he had picked up a baby and a wetnurse on his way home, yet everyone assumes the baby was born in Dorne. It's the one thing all the stories agree on.]
Ok, but now think about this: if you are all the freaking way in DORNE, as far south as south goes, and you need to get all way NORTH, almost as far north as north goes, and you have a NEWBORN with you... are you really going to ride??? Even in a carriage, it would take over a month, and the land is in terrible shape after the war, with outlaws surely still around. Wouldn't it make more sense to go by ship?? It's so much safer, and easier on a baby. You're also much less likely to be noticed... AND it has the added advantage of taking you right by Dragonstone, where you suspect your sister is hidden.
Ok, so Ned sails to DS, and flies a peace banner to be let in. Rhaella may or may not be alive, depending on how much time he spent at Starfall. [She also may have been in the TOJ b/c she was secretly in love with one of the KG, and Ned is returning her home. But that's a crackpot for another day.]
One person who was on DS was Lyanna. She probably did have a baby, and died as a result. But not in a tower in the mountains, but in a castle, attended by servants and probably a maester. They found Ned still holding her body, silent with grief. Howland Reed was the one to take her hand from his, b/c he was his only close friend that was still alive, and they were traveling home together. This explains why only Lyanna's body was brought home; it's a lot easier to bring a body from DS to White Harbor by ship than to carry 5 bodies through the mountains of Dorne.
And on the way home, Ned stopped in KL to reconcile with Robert, while they grieved together. At least the timeline and geography match up in this scenario..
The question remains as to the identity of the babies. The one Ned brought from Dorne could have been Rhaegar & Ashara's, or maybe Ned & Ashara's if he was down there for some time. Let's call this one Ashara's baby. Rhaella also had a baby, presumably Dany. It's possible, however, that this baby was a stillbirth, as she had had so many. So Rhaella's baby may or may not be alive, but if it is, I see no reason to doubt that it's Dany (though she may be Arthur Dayne's love child).
Then there is Lyanna's baby. If we assume - as I am doing now- that Lyanna was on DS, then I see no reason to doubt Rhaegar as the father. Which still leaves open a number of possibilities, but my favorite one is this:
Ashara's baby was Jon with Ned as the father, Rhaella's baby died, and Lyanna's baby by Rhaegar was taken from her and shipped out as Dany. Ned arrived after Rhaella was dead and the two kids (Viserys and fake Dany) were gone. Lyanna begged him to find Dany and keep her safe. He promised... but lost track of her after Darry died. Or maybe he was working on it (all those letters to Howland Reed...).
A few things would fit nicely here. In the tent with MMD, Dany sees a man writhing in flames, and a man with a wolf's face (IIRC). Fire and wolf. Targaryen and Stark. Earlier in the same book, Arya jokes about her sigil being a wolf with a trout in its mouth. (Yes I am down the rabbit hole, LOL). Dany was born among salt and smoke, and she raised dragons from stone eggs... why shouldn't hers be the song of ice and fire? It would be much less trite for it to be her, b/c we already see her as a semi-chosen one and a real contender for AA status.
Also, Dany has a pretty strong sense of justice and honor, especially for someone who has spent little or no time around honorable people, with only Viserys as an example to follow, and later the Dothraki. She prevents the rape of the Lhazareen, and FLIPS OUT when the masters of Meereen kill children. She also refuses to have her own hostages/cupbearers harmed, and she locks up the dragons after they eat one. Starks don't kill children. They also despise slavery, as she does. And she was a natural rider when Drogo gave her the silver mare- just like her mom.
Lastly, this would explain Ned's very strong reaction when Robert wants to kill Dany. Though to be fair, Ned clearly opposes child murder in general.
When Robert decided to kill Dany and her unborn child, Ned finally had enough, and could no longer pretend his brother-king was honorable:
A Game of Thrones - Eddard VIII
Robert had shame enough to blush. "It was not the same," he complained. "Ser Barristan was a knight of the Kingsguard."
"Whereas Daenerys is a fourteen-year-old girl." Ned knew he was pushing this well past the point of wisdom, yet he could not keep silent. "Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?"
"To put an end to Targaryens!" the king growled.
Weird. I thought they rose to get Lyanna back...? Guess not.
Brandon rode around the Red Keep calling for Rhaegar to come out and die. Wolf blood.
Meanwhile, the quiet wolf, the wolf who listens, seems to have learned that Rhaegar was blameless for Lyanna's disappearance/death. Brandon and Rickard were not quiet wolves, they threatened the King, and met the King's Justice.
Fair enough- but why did he then also call for the quiet wolf's head? Either Ned was involved somehow, or Aerys is not as just as he seems.