The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex

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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 28, 2016 5:55:48 GMT voice, haloid, and 1 more like this

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Post by Wraith on Oct 28, 2016 5:55:48 GMT

"I cannot forecast to you the actions of Petyr Baelish. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Baelish's self interest."

Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish is one of the most enigmatic characters in our story and most readers still have only the vaguest ideas of what he has done and what he is really up to. In preparation for my own theories on this issue I am collecting what theories I can find from the internet to make sure I have the most complete view possible.

Also Martin has confirmed several things in SSM and interviews that many readers have seemingly missed. I will also provide links to those.

So what do you think drives Baelish: Power, Ambition, Revenge, Cat, Sansa?

The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex

Relevant SSM/Martin quote:

Baelish will not be a POV because he knows too much
Ser Hugh's death
More on Robert winning the dagger
Baelish possible support of BWB against the Frey's: Anything is possible
Did LF influence Joff to kill Bran
Martin on Gatsby, lots of Gatsby in Baelish

Theories on Baelish:

Soubelle's theory that he is mostly about power and ambition and not revenge. Also notes that Petyr is friendly and an ally to Renly and House Tyrell.

Unified Theory 1
Unified Theory 2
Unified Theory 3
United Theory 4
The Petyr/Renly friendship

Ghostloversinger's essay's on the motivations of Baelish and the possibility of the Varys/Baelish team up.

Mockingbird 1
Mockingbird 2
Mockingbird 3
Silver Spiderweb

The_Halfhand's long summary of everything Baelish has done.

The Mad Genius of Baelish

BeautifulMania's theory that Baelish believes he is the hero of his own story, trying to save Cat who he believes chose her duty over her love of him.

Tragic life of Baelish

Theory on Baelish wanted to set a Braavosi style republic to remove the terrible Westerosi feudalism.

Republic of Littlefinger

From the Sansa Reread project:

Pod the Impaler's take on Baelish as a male influence on Sansa's and Sansa's influence on him

Baelish as a Male Influence

Ragnorak's take on Baelish motives and modus operendi

To Kill a Mockingbird

Elio and Linda's take on Baelish and Varys

Masterminds of Ice and Fire

Lady Dyanna's take on Petyr being the last scion of House Reyne

Petyr Reyne

Videos on Baelish:

Radio Westeros 2 part series on the life of Baelish. Possible motives, agents and schemes

Preston Jacobs Littlefinger Debt Scheme Baelish trying to fulfill prophecy? Discussion of Jon Arryn murder mystery.

Alt Shift X take on what Baelish has been up to.

The Order of the Greenhand's videos on Baelish.

Last Edit: Feb 4, 2018 11:50:16 GMT by Wraith: Added more videos

Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.

Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!

Commander of the Salt Troopers of the First Order

Wraith Administrator The Night's Mod Ready for Martin to fooking finish Winds of Winter Posts: 2,784 Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Long Night Wraith inherit The Night's Mod Male Administrator 55 0 1 May 19, 2022 5:04:26 GMT 4,962 Wraith Ready for Martin to fooking finish Winds of Winter 2,784 Puff the Magic Dragon Dec 6, 2015 4:04:54 GMT December 2015 wraith Long Night	The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 17, 2017 5:48:38 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Wraith on Oct 17, 2017 5:48:38 GMT Lots of views but no responses. Anyone find it interesting, helpful, a waste of time?
	Last Edit: Oct 17, 2017 5:48:58 GMT by Wraith Darkstar will be the next Vulture King. Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not! Commander of the Salt Troopers of the First Order

shymaid
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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 17, 2017 6:05:19 GMT Wraith likes this

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Post by shymaid on Oct 17, 2017 6:05:19 GMT

Oct 17, 2017 5:48:38 GMT Wraith said:

Lots of views but no responses. Anyone find it interesting, helpful, a waste of time?

Very interesting! Very helpfull! And definitely NOT a waste of time!

I'm still to get a grip on Littlefinger, so I felt I hadn't that much to add at this time. Hopefully I will get to it, though.

Thank you for this compilation, and I'd be very interested in what you put together on this enigmatic character!

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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 19, 2017 3:33:07 GMT shymaid likes this

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Post by Wraith on Oct 19, 2017 3:33:07 GMT

Oct 17, 2017 6:05:19 GMT shymaid said:

Oct 17, 2017 5:48:38 GMT Wraith said:

Lots of views but no responses. Anyone find it interesting, helpful, a waste of time?

Very interesting! Very helpfull! And definitely NOT a waste of time!

I'm still to get a grip on Littlefinger, so I felt I hadn't that much to add at this time. Hopefully I will get to it, though.

Thank you for this compilation, and I'd be very interested in what you put together on this enigmatic character!

One of the more misunderstood characters in all of ASIOAF. We have figured out more or less what everyone else is up do/done. Not Baelish though.

Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.

Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!

Commander of the Salt Troopers of the First Order

shymaid
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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 19, 2017 4:55:35 GMT Wraith likes this

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Post by shymaid on Oct 19, 2017 4:55:35 GMT

Oct 19, 2017 3:33:07 GMT Wraith said:

Oct 17, 2017 6:05:19 GMT shymaid said:

Very interesting! Very helpfull! And definitely NOT a waste of time!

I'm still to get a grip on Littlefinger, so I felt I hadn't that much to add at this time. Hopefully I will get to it, though.

Thank you for this compilation, and I'd be very interested in what you put together on this enigmatic character!

One of the more misunderstood characters in all of ASIOAF. We have figured out more or less what everyone else is up do/done. Not Baelish though.

Indeed! I really liked Preston's idea of him taking Sansa for magical reasons and connecting it to the crowning of Lyanna. Always seemed odd to me that winter returned shortly after that, as we don't hear of any other false springs.

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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 19, 2017 6:41:10 GMT

Quote

Post by Wraith on Oct 19, 2017 6:41:10 GMT

Oct 19, 2017 4:55:35 GMT shymaid said:

Oct 19, 2017 3:33:07 GMT Wraith said:

One of the more misunderstood characters in all of ASIOAF. We have figured out more or less what everyone else is up do/done. Not Baelish though.

Indeed! I really liked Preston's idea of him taking Sansa for magical reasons and connecting it to the crowning of Lyanna. Always seemed odd to me that winter returned shortly after that, as we don't hear of any other false springs.

What about the year of the false spring aka 281 AC?

Not sold on all of PJ's theory's but Sansa's materlinael roots to Harrenhal will be important I think. Also I love the idea that Baelish will attempt to hold a Great Tournament/Great Council at Harrenhal to see who will rule Westeros. If he survives that long.

Last Edit: Oct 19, 2017 6:42:01 GMT by Wraith

Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.

Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!

Commander of the Salt Troopers of the First Order

shymaid
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Posts: 1,444

Mini-Profile Theme: Long Night

The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 19, 2017 7:57:43 GMT

Quote

Post by shymaid on Oct 19, 2017 7:57:43 GMT

Oct 19, 2017 7:37:19 GMT Wraith said:

What about the year of the false spring aka 281 AC?

It's a little while since I listened to those videos, but IIRC he talked of Lyanna being crowned because she was a Winter Maid and that Sansa is an Autumn Maid. So crowning Sansa at Harrenhall could have some magical importance. Not sure of what exactly he means by that.
But I did find it odd that winter returned after the Tourney, as it seems like something unusual. In a superstitious world like Westeros I woundn't be suprised if some (or many) spun stories of why that happenend. It is mentioned that Aerys used wildfire to dispell winter, and Rhaegar mysteriously took to the roads at this time. Seems like something's up with that to me. Not convinced that magic had anything to do with it, but that some thought it had and acted on it. I haven't gotten farther than this as it's a new line of thought.

Oct 19, 2017 7:37:19 GMT Wraith said:

Not sold on all of PJ's theory's but Sansa's materlinael roots to Harrenhal will be important I think. Also I love the idea that Baelish will attempt to hold a Great Tournament/Great Council at Harrenhal to see who will rule Westeros. If he survives that long.

Haha, me neither, but he does provide nice food for thought!
Sansa's blood will come into play I think, and as the most Tully of Catelyn's children I think that is her way so to speak. Mayhaps Littlefinger's Great Tourney will flip to Littlefinger's Great Trial? No, that smells too much of D&D... The idea is good as you say!
I can't decide if he will survive to the end, or close to it, or not. He's like a wet bar of soap! Hard to get a grip on.

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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 19, 2017 10:30:39 GMT shymaid likes this

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Post by Wraith on Oct 19, 2017 10:30:39 GMT

Oct 19, 2017 10:23:16 GMT shymaid said:

Haha, me neither, but he does provide nice food for thought!
Sansa's blood will come into play I think, and as the most Tully of Catelyn's children I think that is her way so to speak. Mayhaps Littlefinger's Great Tourney will flip to Littlefinger's Great Trial? No, that smells too much of D&D... The idea is good as you say!
I can't decide if he will survive to the end, or close to it, or not. He's like a wet bar of soap! Hard to get a grip on.

branvras.free.fr/HuisClos/Bat.html From a retired but another underappreciated theorist.

Yup its possible the Whent/Lothson blood could be just as magical as Stark. After all Sweetrobin seems to have powers, or PJ thinks so at least.

Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.

Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!

Commander of the Salt Troopers of the First Order

shymaid
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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 19, 2017 11:09:48 GMT Wraith likes this

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Post by shymaid on Oct 19, 2017 11:09:48 GMT

Oct 19, 2017 10:30:39 GMT Wraith said:

branvras.free.fr/HuisClos/Bat.html From a retired but another underappreciated theorist.

Yup its possible the Whent/Lothson blood could be just as magical as Stark. After all Sweetrobin seems to have powers, or PJ thinks so at least.

Thanks for the link! I think I've read some on there before, but not this part.

The Lothson stories we hear of (bathing in blood etc) is probably the usual horrorstories, but where we find smoke... Something's there! I haven't been able to look past Sweetrobin the brat yet, so not sure what is going on there. He's probably one of the dreamers in the story though, as it seems maesters are instructed to use poitions (as a general term) to keep dreams like we see out.

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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 25, 2017 6:26:49 GMT shymaid likes this

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Post by Wraith on Oct 25, 2017 6:26:49 GMT

Oct 19, 2017 11:09:48 GMT shymaid said:

Oct 19, 2017 10:30:39 GMT Wraith said:

branvras.free.fr/HuisClos/Bat.html From a retired but another underappreciated theorist.

Yup its possible the Whent/Lothson blood could be just as magical as Stark. After all Sweetrobin seems to have powers, or PJ thinks so at least.

Thanks for the link! I think I've read some on there before, but not this part.

The Lothson stories we hear of (bathing in blood etc) is probably the usual horror stories, but where we find smoke... Something's there! I haven't been able to look past Sweetrobin the brat yet, so not sure what is going on there. He's probably one of the dreamers in the story though, as it seems maesters are instructed to use poitions (as a general term) to keep dreams like we see out.

The parallels to Bran and Sweetrobin are so heavy that he must also have powers of some sort. PJ does a good job pointing them out.

It sad that most people don't find the political machinations of the story as interesting as I do and would rather spend all their time rehashing XY=Z. :deadhorse

Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.

Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!

Commander of the Salt Troopers of the First Order

shymaid
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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 25, 2017 10:32:44 GMT Wraith likes this

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Post by shymaid on Oct 25, 2017 10:32:44 GMT

Oct 25, 2017 6:26:49 GMT Wraith said:

The parallels to Bran and Sweetrobin are so heavy that he must also have powers of some sort. PJ does a good job pointing them out.

He does! I'll get to that too in time!

Oct 25, 2017 6:26:49 GMT Wraith said:

It sad that most people don't find the political machinations of the story as interesting as I do and would rather spend all their time rehashing XY=Z. :deadhorse

It is! What is so great about this story is that it's so layered in so many ways, rarely seen with so many topics. Most stories (litterature, film, tv-shows) have a couple, maybe three, so Martin has taken it to the next level imo.
Honestly, most people isn't really interested in politics, and those that are usually keeps it to the superficial level in my humble opinion. So when a story has many other interesting mysteries it's easy to keep looking at that, and let the realpolitik be. Just like irl. One should think after years and years in reading these books this topic would get more attention, but alas. Humans will be humans in the end, and click-bait is a factor that can't bee ignored in this.
As I've been in this game only for about 7 months I find the xyz interesting, but it's not highest on my list. I do get dragged into it more than I intend, but... I got stuck in the mysterymeat beyond the Wall early on, and it's a bit irritating to be honest. So I just have to figure it out!

Give me more time to get a hold of the politics, and we can hash it out! :cheers

(Disclaimer: I will not claim to be the most political astute person, but I do try hard to look at deeper levels.)

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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 26, 2017 3:16:53 GMT shymaid likes this

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Post by Wraith on Oct 26, 2017 3:16:53 GMT

Oct 25, 2017 16:42:10 GMT shymaid said:

Give me more time to get a hold of the politics, and we can hash it out! :cheers

(Disclaimer: I will not claim to be the most political astute person, but I do try hard to look at deeper levels.)

Take all the time you need I will be here when you are ready.

Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.

Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!

Commander of the Salt Troopers of the First Order

shymaid Nymeria Posts: 1,444 Mini-Profile Theme: Long Night shymaid inherit Female 323 0 Jan 2, 2020 16:06:32 GMT 1,665 shymaid 1,444 Nymeria May 1, 2017 7:39:50 GMT May 2017 shymaid Long Night	The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Oct 26, 2017 3:47:54 GMT Wraith likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by shymaid on Oct 26, 2017 3:47:54 GMT Oct 26, 2017 3:38:29 GMT Wraith said: Take all the time you need I will be here when you are ready. Perfect! That's a date!
	High priestess of the Sacred Order of Shy Maids Blood is the seal of our devotion.

Wraith Administrator The Night's Mod Ready for Martin to fooking finish Winds of Winter Posts: 2,784 Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Long Night Wraith inherit The Night's Mod Male Administrator 55 0 1 May 19, 2022 5:04:26 GMT 4,962 Wraith Ready for Martin to fooking finish Winds of Winter 2,784 Puff the Magic Dragon Dec 6, 2015 4:04:54 GMT December 2015 wraith Long Night	The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Feb 2, 2018 9:48:30 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Wraith on Feb 2, 2018 9:48:30 GMT Oct 26, 2017 3:47:54 GMT shymaid said: Oct 26, 2017 3:38:29 GMT Wraith said: Take all the time you need I will be here when you are ready. Perfect! That's a date! Still waiting on that date.
	Darkstar will be the next Vulture King. Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not! Commander of the Salt Troopers of the First Order

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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex Feb 2, 2018 12:19:52 GMT Wraith likes this

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Post by shymaid on Feb 2, 2018 12:19:52 GMT

Feb 2, 2018 9:48:30 GMT Wraith said:

Oct 26, 2017 3:47:54 GMT shymaid said:

Perfect! That's a date! :cheers

Still waiting on that date.

Oh dear, I left you hanging there, didn't I... :bag

A fur clad king stole me and took me all the way over to Essos and Slaver's Bay, I blame him!

Well, the pesky little finger just entered my very slow going reread (Cat IV turned out to be a wormhole!), and I have finished my Feast with Dragons and so things are a bit more sorted in my head for the later stages in the story.
This video from Radio Westeros has some interesting bits on Littlefinger and Renly, and what they might have been up to. It's long and I don't have the relevant times at hand, but they follow Renly's life chronologically.
Edit: most of the relevant stuff is between 40 and 60 minutes, roughly speaking.

In addition to that, I'm on part 4 of the Unified Theory. Lastly, I think my calendar has freed up enough to get back into the books! Been a bit busy in the new year.

So, where do you want to start? If you take the lead, I'll dance with you, good ser! :cool

Last Edit: Feb 3, 2018 6:04:53 GMT by shymaid: Adding times for video

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The Petyr Baelish Motive Codex

Post by Wraith on Oct 28, 2016 5:55:48 GMT

Post by Wraith on Oct 17, 2017 5:48:38 GMT

Post by shymaid on Oct 17, 2017 6:05:19 GMT

Post by Wraith on Oct 19, 2017 3:33:07 GMT

Post by shymaid on Oct 19, 2017 4:55:35 GMT

Post by Wraith on Oct 19, 2017 6:41:10 GMT

Post by shymaid on Oct 19, 2017 7:57:43 GMT

Post by Wraith on Oct 19, 2017 10:30:39 GMT

Post by shymaid on Oct 19, 2017 11:09:48 GMT

Post by Wraith on Oct 25, 2017 6:26:49 GMT

Post by shymaid on Oct 25, 2017 10:32:44 GMT

Post by Wraith on Oct 26, 2017 3:16:53 GMT

Post by shymaid on Oct 26, 2017 3:47:54 GMT

Post by Wraith on Feb 2, 2018 9:48:30 GMT

Post by shymaid on Feb 2, 2018 12:19:52 GMT