Post by DarkSister1001 on Jun 22, 2016 19:20:13 GMT
There are oodles of astrological connections in the story. Dawn, Long Night, Starfall, etc. I haven't been able to locate anything indicating Tarth's connection. The Head of the House is called the EvenSTAR and their seat is EvenFALL. Surely this means something? SlyWrenLmLvoice @ladydyanna
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
Always possible. I'm not good on LotR stuff. I never was able to get into it. I've been doing the slowest reread known to mankind for months now. I'll have to add this into what I'm looking for along with echoes, mentions of dawn, dreams, pigs, cats, sheep, magical illness, effects of magic, how magic impacts burning swords and the twelve other things I'm currently not remembering. lol. Wonder why the reread is taking months, huh. It has been in the back of my mind for a while now though.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
There are oodles of astrological connections in the story. Dawn, Long Night, Starfall, etc. I haven't been able to locate anything indicating Tarth's connection. The Head of the House is called the EvenSTAR and their seat is EvenFALL. Surely this means something?
Brienne speaks of Ser Galladon of Morne, and Tarthians claim to be his descendants. He was the perfect knight (like Arthur *wink wink*) whose valor was so great, the Maiden (like Lyanna *wink wink*) of the Faith of the Seven fell in love with him. She gave him a magical sword (like Dawn *wink wink*).
Tarth is the sapphire isle of course, and that calls to mind Symeon Star-Eyes who placed blue sapphires in his eye sockets, and watched hellhouds fight at the Nightfort. Symeon Star-Eyes, in my mind, was a sword brother of the Night's Watch who was enchanted with strange sorceries by Night's King and his Queen and came to look like an Other, with stars for eyes. (Same goes for Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, whose shield was forged of ice, imo... and it should be noted that Brienne's father's name differs from Serwyn by only a single letter. His name is Selwyn Tarth, the Evenstar.)
In this way, we have a Long Night connection with Tarth, though it's only tangential and highly speculative.
Evenfall and the Evenstar sound a lot like harbingers of darkness, and the titles themselves are said to date to the Dawn Age. So yes, I think we can conclude there are some astronomical components to their heritage.
One could even say their arms are a song of ice and fire:
And lastly, the Evenstar, as LmL will attest, is Venus, Lightbringer, Lucifer, the "Evening Star." A harbinger of darkness visible above the western horizon as darkness falls. Once Venus lies on the other side of the sun, from Earth's perspective, it becomes the Morning Star.
The rise and fall of Lucifer is far older than Christianity, and is found in accounts of paleoastronomy the world over. Sumer springs to mind from an old class I had in college. Sumerian astronomy is a fascinating subject. But anyhoo, yes, Evenstar in particular brings to mind the Long Night, and a herald/hero who descended into it and is transformed (the fall of my Night's King, and the fall of LmL's Azor Ahai).
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
And don't forget. Brienne is part of a limited number of characters shown fighting with a sword glowing with a pale blue light alongside Jaime in his dream. The same color as the sword of the ww we see in the prologue.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Brienne speaks of Ser Galladon of Morne, and Tarthians claim to be his descendants. He was the perfect knight (like Arthur *wink wink*) whose valor was so great, the Maiden (like Lyanna *wink wink*) of the Faith of the Seven fell in love with him. She gave him a magical sword (like Dawn *wink wink*).
Do you have an eye twitch? jk
It's very interesting that despite being a woman, Brienne is the "perfect knight". I think she will follow in Dunk's footsteps and wear the white cloak bringing them back to greatness.
Tarth is the sapphire isle of course, and that calls to mind Symeon Star-Eyes who placed blue sapphires in his eye sockets, and watched hellhouds fight at the Nightfort. Symeon Star-Eyes, in my mind, was a sword brother of the Night's Watch who was enchanted with strange sorceries by Night's King and his Queen and came to look like an Other, with stars for eyes. (Same goes for Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, whose shield was forged of ice, imo... and it should be noted that Brienne's father's name differs from Serwyn by only a single letter. His name is Selwyn Tarth, the Evenstar.)
Ohhh, very cool. I always thought there was a connection between Star Eyes, Serwyn and the Others but couldn't get the dots to fully connect. Thanks!
Evenfall and the Evenstar sound a lot like harbingers of darkness, and the titles themselves are said to date to the Dawn Age. So yes, I think we can conclude there are some astronomical components to their heritage.
Yes! I was thinking it might be an indication that Tarth/Brienne/Selwyn could be intricate in the arrival of the Long Night. Tarth was the first conquered by the Andals, they could be the first to be overrun by greyscale.
And don't forget. Brienne is part of a limited number of characters shown fighting with a sword glowing with a pale blue light alongside Jaime in his dream. The same color as the sword of the ww we see in the prologue.
Right! Dawn is also described similarly but I'm with Sly that Jon will wield that one. I can't have the theories I like contradicting themselves. I wonder if that blue sword in Jaime's dream is only a nod to Oathkeeper being forged from Ice?
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
There are oodles of astrological connections in the story. Dawn, Long Night, Starfall, etc. I haven't been able to locate anything indicating Tarth's connection. The Head of the House is called the EvenSTAR and their seat is EvenFALL. Surely this means something? SlyWrenLmLvoice @ladydyanna
Sorry to be so late--I saw this before I left and then forgot to get back to it.
I agree with you all that the story of Galladon is likely to be tied to Dawn. And brings me back to the speculation we had with ladybarbrey about Dawn's possibly being bestowed by women to the worthy wielder.
And, no I'm not only saying that because I hope we meet Allyria or Ashara (if Ashara is still with us)--though I do hope we meet them.
But the story of Galladon is very specific. And, as kingmonkey has well noted, Starfall has a lot of grail imagery and Arthurian imagery around it--on an island in a river, on the shores of the Summer Sea, holding Dawn until the next Sword of the Morning arises. So, a connection to the Lady of the Lake, choosing who is worthy--that would tie into the Galladon story and the Arthurian imagery.
One other thing I noticed--when Jon gets Longclaw, Mormont tells him to see Ser Endrew Tarth, the master at arms from the Shadow Tower.
The Old Bear seemed pleased by that. "I suppose they do. You'll want to wear that over the shoulder, I imagine. It's too long for the hip, at least until you've put on a few inches. And you'll need to work at your two-handed strikes as well. Ser Endrew can show you some moves, when your burns have healed."
"Ser Endrew?" Jon did not know the name.
"Ser Endrew Tarth, a good man. He's on his way from the Shadow Tower to assume the duties of master-at-arms. Ser Alliser Thorne left yestermorn for Eastwatch-by-the-Sea." Game, Jon VIII
Endrew gets killed later in the Battle of the Bridge of Skulls. But, weirdly, they actually cast him as a named character in the show.
Point is: a knight of House Tarth helps Jon learn how to fight two handed with his bastard sword, the sword mid-way between a long sword and a great sword.
Might be nothing, but they could have had anyone do it. Martin chose a Tarth to prep Jon for greatsword fighting.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Could just be a nod to LotR, Arwen was called the Evenstar. But I'm thinking there's more.
I agree that there's more than just a nod.
Plus I think Dawn is a nod to Narsil, reforged as Anduril--flame of the West. A sword that waited in a castle in a river valley--a river that goes out to the sea (Hello, Starfall!)--until Aragorn came to claim it for the final battle.
Tarth is the sapphire isle of course, and that calls to mind Symeon Star-Eyes who placed blue sapphires in his eye sockets, and watched hellhouds fight at the Nightfort. Symeon Star-Eyes, in my mind, was a sword brother of the Night's Watch who was enchanted with strange sorceries by Night's King and his Queen and came to look like an Other, with stars for eyes. (Same goes for Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, whose shield was forged of ice, imo... and it should be noted that Brienne's father's name differs from Serwyn by only a single letter. His name is Selwyn Tarth, the Evenstar.)
I think Serwyn might also be a wight taken over by a knight, or a Knight that got Othered, and I think Serwyn might be a nod to House Cerwyn, but the above holds nicely.
One could even say their arms are a song of ice and fire:
Or A song of Night and Day.
And it's interesting that the moon is a crescent--the sickle moon. The horned moon. The one tied to sacrifice--though this is more sweetsunray territory than mine.
Since Galladon had to be "worthy" and the Sword of the Morning must be "worthy"--seems like sacrifice could tied into "worthiness."
Though not a blood sacrifice--I'm with LmL on that one: blood sacrifice is #Abomination.
And don't forget. Brienne is part of a limited number of characters shown fighting with a sword glowing with a pale blue light alongside Jaime in his dream. The same color as the sword of the ww we see in the prologue.
Right! Dawn is also described similarly but I'm with Sly that Jon will wield that one. I can't have the theories I like contradicting themselves. I wonder if that blue sword in Jaime's dream is only a nod to Oathkeeper being forged from Ice?
When I get my wish of magic time-enhancing, I need to start a Forensic File on Jaime's dream. Those twin swords, the twin fighters, the fighting against the darkness and death and doom and the past. I keep feeling like I'm missing something.
But the sword Jon holds isn't the cold blue of death--like Jaime's swords and the Others' eyes. Jon's sword burns red--dawn, not death.
Yes! I was thinking it might be an indication that Tarth/Brienne/Selwyn could be intricate in the arrival of the Long Night. Tarth was the first conquered by the Andals, they could be the first to be overrun by greyscale.
Okay--so you're thinking that greyscale will come with the Long Night? voice might be with you on that.
But I like the idea that the Evenstar might be the last light before the darkness. And then the Sword of the Morning brings the Dawn.
But I'm now worried about Brienne. . .
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2016 15:59:19 GMT by SlyWren: I can't spell.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.