I've always puzzled over the architecture of the Eyrie and the symbolism of its gates and waystations: stone, snow and sky and House Arryn's words "as high as honor". I wonder if Jon was actually conceived here. But that's me, filling in the blanks.
Although I never cam to the same conclusion as you, I've often wondered about those way castles myself. The chapter's with ascents and descents are very confusing to me. I have to read them several times over to make sure I'm gettin' it and even then I'm full of questions. lol
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
I read someones post on here (somewhere??) that prophesy may be aimed at the reader as well as the character in question. One part of Quaithes prophesies to Dany just recently struck a cord. "To go forward you must go back". Toj is prehistory to the novels (duh), So any reference in the novels to these situations is taking things back to make forward progress. I know everyone else already figured that out but I like my little epiphanies.
I approve of your little epiphanies.
And I agree re: the prophecies.
I do think there's something very specific about Quaithe, though. Her eyes are wet when she talks to Dany. She appears to Dany in later novels. Quaithe is much more specifically involved with Dany than others Dany meets in Qarth.
So, makes me think it may not be just the toj, but Quaithe is part of Dany's past. And that's why she can specifically chide Dany to "remember."
VERY relevant! Excellent catch! I particularly like the Wolf-Maid Arya and Wolf-Maid Lyanna part.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Archmaester Marwyn shrugged. "Perhaps it's good that he died before he got to Oldtown. Elsewise the grey sheep might have had to kill him, and that would have made the poor old dears wring their wrinkled hands." "Kill him?" Sam said, shocked. "Why?" Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?" He spat. "The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can."
At first glance this may seem completely off topic. But is it? Notice the question from Marwyn. "Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around?" The next line is misleading I believe. : "Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?" He spat. The context is the Maesters of the Citadel killing Maester Aemon not a flying fire breathing dragon.
So if we take dragons to mean Targaryens it adds a conspirator to not just the tower of joy but the rebellion leading to the tower of joy. L.C. Gerold Hightower was one of the three at TOJ. Hightower - Oldtown - Citadel. Look how many "Dragons" were killed "the last time around." Problem is, I can't find the connection to the three KG at the tower or why any of them would want to kill Ned. Except for the possibility that they might think he had something to do with the sack. or were misinformed to that effect.
I've always puzzled over the architecture of the Eyrie and the symbolism of its gates and waystations: stone, snow and sky and House Arryn's words "as high as honor". I wonder if Jon was actually conceived here. But that's me, filling in the blanks.
Although I never cam to the same conclusion as you, I've often wondered about those way castles myself. The chapter's with ascents and descents are very confusing to me. I have to read them several times over to make sure I'm gettin' it and even then I'm full of questions. lol
I'm not drawing any conclusions; I'm reaching or stretching; wondering if there is a narrative hidden within it that might be relevant to the forging of Jon's soul. I think in the context of worthiness; Jon will descend into darkness before he can climb into the light.
Random spit-balling:
The Eyrie symbolic of an eagle's nest situated on top of the highest mountain in the land; the Giant's Lance. Perhaps some symbolism related to Rhaegar and his lance at the ToH. The statue of the weeping woman, struck on the thigh and the arm, pushed over onto the ground... a story about Lyanna perhaps. The bloody gate and the moon gate, symbolic of penetration and pregnancy or the female monthly cycle. The "angel falls" (fallen angel), Alyssa's Tears reminiscent of Lyssa Arryn's disastrous liaison with a Bael-ish type character. A child on a weirwood throne and the moon door'; Bran and the Black Gate.
The forging of Ned's character, the importance of honor, the pledge to protect, the code he lives by and passes on to Jon; takes place at the Eyrie. Ned's names Jon after his surrogate father, Jon Arryn suggesting that Ned is also a surrogate father. The region called the Vale; symbolic of things that are hidden or veiled.
Also noteworthy is the Quiet Isle located on the Saltpans; where honey bees are kept and where visitor lodges are shaped like bee-hives and smoke pours through their smoke holes. Literally a place of salt and smoke. Also a place where noble ladies have in the past been taken to have their injuries or 'illnesses' attended. A brotherhood that observes a vow of silence. A backwater smuggler's port where ships sometimes take on passengers.
So if we take dragons to mean Targaryens it adds a conspirator to not just the tower of joy but the rebellion leading to the tower of joy. L.C. Gerold Hightower was one of the three at TOJ. Hightower - Oldtown - Citadel. Look how many "Dragons" were killed "the last time around."
Problem is, I can't find the connection to the three KG at the tower or why any of them would want to kill Ned. Except for the possibility that they might think he had something to do with the sack. or were misinformed to that effect.
IMO he's an usurper no matter who else he is connected to. Even if his sister and nephew are in the tower, Ned is a rebel to the throne and they're honor bound to fight.
wondering if there is a narrative hidden within it that might be relevant to the forging of Jon's soul. I think in the context of worthiness; Jon will descend into darkness before he can climb into the light.
I agree. Like Christ, Aragorn and Dante, and all the other hero's before. There's a name for it, but I can't recall. Something along the lines of the hero's cycle.
The Eyrie symbolic of an eagle's nest situated on top of the highest mountain in the land; the Giant's Lance. Perhaps some symbolism related to Rhaegar and his lance at the ToH. The statue of the weeping woman, struck on the thigh and the arm, pushed over onto the ground... a story about Lyanna perhaps. The bloody gate and the moon gate, symbolic of penetration and pregnancy or the female monthly cycle. The "angel falls" (fallen angel), Alyssa's Tears reminiscent of Lyssa Arryn's disastrous liaison with a Bael-ish type character. A child on a weirwood throne and the moon door'; Bran and the Black Gate.
Excellent observations! I can't help but notice that 2 of the Eyrie castles have bastard names. Stone & Snow.
Also noteworthy is the Quiet Isle located on the Saltpans; where honey bees are kept and where visitor lodges are shaped like bee-hives and smoke pours through their smoke holes. Literally a place of salt and smoke. Also a place where noble ladies have in the past been taken to have their injuries or 'illnesses' attended. A brotherhood that observes a vow of silence. A backwater smuggler's port where ships sometimes take on passengers.
Nice catch!
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
I can't help but notice that 2 of the Eyrie castles have bastard names. Stone & Snow.
We have Ned's curious statement to Robert in the crypts: "Lyanna was... (pause) fond of Flower." A slip of the tongue almost? Flowers is the bastard name of Maester Walys Flowers who disappeared with Lyanna around the same time. If Jon were born in the Vale, he would be a stone. If Robert Baratheon is his father, then Jon would also be a Snow and a Storm. So, stone, snow and sky? LOL!
More random thoughts:
Also did Rhaegar and Arthur split up at some point around their sojourn to Harrenhall? I think I read that they parted company at some point. If so,is it possible that Arthur came across Lyanna. Because if he did, then this might go aways to explain Ned's reverence for him. In the manner of a true knight as Brienne will tell you; duty bound to protect the weak and defenseless. If Lyanna was attacked by Twyin's minions; the three dishonored knights of the Tourney; I can see Arthur rushing her off to the Saltpans for medical assistance, possibly even a childbirth. Since we have Dany going through a similar experience behind a curtain or a veil.
I still have to go with Robert as father. Even if Lyanna was preggers before the tourney; then sent off with Maester Walys perhaps with Benjen's knowledge. Who knows what kind of Pink Letter Maester Walys recieved to hoodwink poor Benjen. So could we have Lyanna on the way to Castle Wyl for hiding? Along comes Arthur to intervene in the kidnapping attempt (by Tywin) and take her to Castle Wyl himself perhaps with a pledge to protect Jon and Lyanna in some way. That could explain a lot concerning Ned's shame and reverence for Arthur and why he associates Arthur's death with Lyanna. It might even explain why there is confusion about Lyanna's identity as Wylla. She may have been travelling with Maester Walys as Wylla and maintained that identity. If true, then it's likely that Ashara knew where to find Lyanna and Jon.
As for Robert, Ned describes him in his youth as every maiden's fantasy; tall, handsome and muscled all over. It wouldn't be hard for me to imagine Lyanna responding to that kind of masculinity; teenage hormones and all. It seems they were betrothed for some time. It's not out of the question they had contact before the tourney or that Robert would have such a strong pair bond with her after intimate relations.
It's a question of timing a childbirth around Rhaegar's and Arthur's trip to Harrenhal or sometime thereafter. Lyanna's disappearance may have occurred after her brother and father ended up in KL. Since Ned is with her when she dies; I think this happens after the ToJ and Starfall. Once again Ned telling Robert in the crypts that he would rather entrust a child to a pit viper (House Wyl) than Tywin Lannister when they discuss the pledge to protect a ward, in this case Robyn Arryn.
During the final stage of the Conquest of Dorne, when Daeron I Targaryen was attacked and killed under the pretext of a peace banner and Prince Aemon Targaryen was imprisoned by the Wyls.[7] Lord Wyl refused to free Aemon, when Baelor came to Dorne seeking peace. Baelor returned with the Prince of Dorne's acceptance for Aemon's release and Lord Wyl relented. However, instead of freeing Aemon himself, he gave Baelor the key to Aemon's cage and an invitation to use it. However, Aemon was now trapped inside a cage, naked and exposed to the elements. Below the cage, a pit had been dug and filled with many vipers. Baelor entered the pit and opened the cage, getting bitten by the vipers in the process. The Dragonknight was able thrust the door and and pull his cousin from the pit. The Wyls are said to have laid wagers as Prince Aemon struggled to climb out of the pit with his cousin flung across his back. - westeros wiki
I'm not sure that Rhaegar was ever involved in Lyanna's disappearance or knew where she was located. Arthur may have taken a pledge to protect as seriously as Jon Arryn.
The Eyrie symbolic of an eagle's nest situated on top of the highest mountain in the land; the Giant's Lance. Perhaps some symbolism related to Rhaegar and his lance at the ToH. The statue of the weeping woman, struck on the thigh and the arm, pushed over onto the ground... a story about Lyanna perhaps. The bloody gate and the moon gate, symbolic of penetration and pregnancy or the female monthly cycle. The "angel falls" (fallen angel), Alyssa's Tears reminiscent of Lyssa Arryn's disastrous liaison with a Bael-ish type character. A child on a weirwood throne and the moon door'; Bran and the Black Gate.
To add to this, the breaking of the torso of the statue could be symbolic of death in childbirth.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.