I think he knew he was getting Brandon into shit and that was as far as he thought. I don't think he knew he would start a war or everything that would come after, he's not psychic. I have a thought in my mind that he'll reveal this to Sansa at some point. How would that go you ask? Something like this:
Truth is a funny thing sweetling, it takes on a life of it's own over the years. The realm believes it true that Rhaegar abducted your Aunt Lyanna... at least that's what I told your Uncle Brandon anyway.
Obviously with some GRRM embellishments, probably a description of some food or Sansa's dress but you get the general idea
It makes so much sense considering he alone survived.
I do enjoy the idea of Ethan as a rat, but additionally it is worth noting that Brandon could have survived too. We know he was placed in a trap with a sword out of reach and told that if he could reach the sword he could save Rickard, and that he only died because he tried to reach the sword, thereby tightening the trap around his neck until he suffocated. Had Brandon just stayed still nothing would have happened. Rickard would have still died of course, but the trap wouldn't have killed Brandon. Aerys might have decided to kill him anyways for ruining his fun, but we know Brandon was put in a survivable situation.
Which begs the question of whether or not the others were too. For all we know Ethan and his father were placed in the same situation and Ethan just stone coldedly let his father die instead of struggling like Brandon. Or Aerys tested them in a different way and Ethan survived it. The point being, we know that Brandon could've survived, and it doesn't require us to say that he spilled secrets to Aerys. All he had to do was ignore the sword in front of him. Ethan, and all the others, could've easily been in the same type of survivable situation but only Ethan actually did.
I still like the idea though. There's over 200 of Rickard's best northerners who are slaughtered in all this as well as all of Brandon's companions, and some random squire survives, and then turns back up at the TOJ and dies fighting 3 Kingsguard. Seems like there's at least something up with Ethan as GRRM put him in two important places.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Hmm...there's parts about this that I can really follow and see...but then there's parts that are totally unsupported inventions just to fill the gaps.
Post by kinglittlefinger on Jan 4, 2017 22:25:59 GMT
Forgot all about this place the last couple months having gotten incredibly busy at work, glad to see more of you made your way through all of the theory. I'm considering doing a new part to kind of touch up parts and critiques and add a couple new things in to other parts. Like how could I not put together that Aerys's spymaster, Varys, is also a known crawler of the Black Cells, Rugen, as far back as Ethan Glover's time in the dungeon? GRRM basically drew us a clear path from Ethan to Aerys through Varys in book two.
I'm also not happy with the ending yet, I don't have a revolutionary conclusion surrounding the ToJ and I feel like it starts to fall off at that part.
Hmm...there's parts about this that I can really follow and see...but then there's parts that are totally unsupported inventions just to fill the gaps.
Arya is the anti-Sansa. We have no reason to believe nor assume that Lyanna would have been Sansa-like. Rather than swoon for married men, it seems far more likely that Lyanna would have spurned such slights to the north with sword in hand. Just sayin...
While I would agree that we aren't outright given a comparison between Lyanna and Sansa like we are to Arya through Bran's vision and Ned's wolf-blood comment, we have no evidence that Lyanna didn't enjoy songs or swoon over knights similar to Sansa, afterall she would be much closer to Sansa's age at the time of all this than she was in Bran's vision.
But I also LOVE the idea of a Lyanna/Catelyn dichotomy similar to Arya/Sansa as well. Not sure if the timeline and locations fit to where she could be the one to tell Brandon of the abduction, but a little sister-esque rivalry I can get behind, knowing how teenage girls are with eachother.
Hmm...there's parts about this that I can really follow and see...but then there's parts that are totally unsupported inventions just to fill the gaps.
I think that's the boat all of us are in ultimately, no? There are always gaps, so we must needs speculate.
I'm also not happy with the ending yet, I don't have a revolutionary conclusion surrounding the ToJ and I feel like it starts to fall off at that part.
Considering the ToJ was a pile of rocks the size of which might be used for building 8 cairns, yet small enough for Ned to pull down himself after nearly dying in combat with Arthur Dayne... then I think some anticlimax is to be expected at the location.
What might be expected, from the canonical description of the tower of joy:
What might be expected, from the canonical description of Starfall:
Certainly, this last picture is not a structure that fits with Ned's memory (and not a fever-dream-memory, mind you):
It would have to be his grandfather, for Jory's father was buried far to the south. Martyn Cassel had perished with the rest. Ned had pulled the tower down afterward, and used its bloody stones to build eight cairns upon the ridge. It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy, but for Ned it was a bitter memory.
While I would agree that we aren't outright given a comparison between Lyanna and Sansa like we are to Arya through Bran's vision and Ned's wolf-blood comment, we have no evidence that Lyanna didn't enjoy songs or swoon over knights similar to Sansa, afterall she would be much closer to Sansa's age at the time of all this than she was in Bran's vision.
Just so. I was being more than a little biased there, methinks.
Although... Arya is now 11 in ADWD... In TWOW Mercy Chapter, she is likely 12, which is the same age as Lyanna was during the Tourney of Harrenhal.
And even Sansa did not swoon for her prince once her father was murdered... a fate which befell Lyanna's father as well, during the two years in which she was missing. So we might then establish that even prince-swooning she-wolves bare their fangs when brothers and fathers are condemned by the crown... which happened to both Sansa and Lyanna.
But I also LOVE the idea of a Lyanna/Catelyn dichotomy similar to Arya/Sansa as well. Not sure if the timeline and locations fit to where she could be the one to tell Brandon of the abduction, but a little sister-esque rivalry I can get behind, knowing how teenage girls are with eachother.
An interesting angle, but not one that I recall proposing.
Cat says the first time she ever saw Eddard was on their wedding day
And was it really such a terrible thing, to want a pretty wife? She remembered her own childish disappointment, the first time she had laid eyes on Eddard Stark. She had pictured him as a younger version of his brother Brandon, but that was wrong. Ned was shorter and plainer of face, and so somber. He spoke courteously enough, but beneath the words she sensed a coolness that was all at odds with Brandon, whose mirths had been as wild as his rages. Even when he took her maidenhood, their love had more of duty to it than of passion. We made Robb that night, though; we made a king together. And after the war, at Winterfell, I had love enough for any woman, once I found the good sweet heart beneath Ned's solemn face. There is no reason Edmure should not find the same, with his Roslin.
Which means that Catelyn never saw him at Harrenhal or on any of Brandon's trips to Riverrun. Which fits because none of the Tullys even seemed to be at Harrenhal (weird enough in itself). So if Cat's never met Eddard before, then I doubt she'd ever met Lyanna either.
Additionally, Cat mentions that she wasn't with Brandon when he found out about Lyanna
"He was on his way to Riverrun when . . ." Strange, how telling it still made her throat grow tight, after all these years. ". . . when he heard about Lyanna, and went to King's Landing instead. It was a rash thing to do." She remembered how her own father had raged when the news had been brought to Riverrun. The gallant fool, was what he called Brandon.
So don't see how Cat could've been the one to tell Brandon about Lyanna.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Kind of what I was thinking, and it was pieceofgosa that suggested Cat/Lyanna angle, not voice .
Always happy to be set straight There is a bit of wiggle room given GRRM's penchant for unreliable memories (I'm looking at you Sansa) but no, it seems highly unlikely Cat had anything to do with the whole affair. It is interesting though, her "throat-tightening" reaction, almost as if this is a "truth" she's told so many times to herself she even believes it.... (I'm off the reservation here but I don't care)