Hell I gave it a 10 just because Drogon lit the sky up and we saw surfing Dothraki. Any episode that has both should be a ten.
In all honesty though the cave scene was just too forced for me. Davos is one of my favorite characters and he is just off this year. I am getting tired of all of the recalls, but I have to admit that his "fewer" line was enjoyable. I loved the Arya and Brienne scene.
Am I the only one that starts singing the old Sonny and Cher song "The Beat Goes On" every time they show Bran? He needs a pair on Rayban Wayfarers and he can be the complete beatnik.
We had sunshine in December and grew our roses in the snow.
Best episode of the season with some really good moments, but there was some stupid stuff that kept it from a 10.
Edit: Started very slow, but i love Jamie and Bronn together again. Bran LF was hilarious at the end, but overall i didn't care for the scene as it seems to be LF just being stupid again. Meera and Bran was brutal, oh lost humanity. Arya coming home was good, and i really liked the crypt scene on a second watch.
i didn't mind the cave scene, and i loved Dany spurning her other councilors and asking the KitN what he'd do, and Jon's response was awesome. i know everyone is raving about the field of fire II, but to me the Arya vs. Brienne scene stole the show. i loved the choreography, loved the reactions of Sansa and LF to the scene, and the, "No one" response absolutely nailed it, but i think Brienne and LF both know where she got her training now... Podrick's reactions to everything were great as well, and i'm really looking forward to him reuniting with Tyrion. Jon, Davos, and Missi's scene was really good, and Alfie was soooo good in his scene.
Now, Drogon and Dany in FoFII were awesome, and the buildup to the Dothraki was really well done. i liked the BotB better as far as a combat narrative, but this was really well done and was a great conclusion to an overall great episode. Tyrion's look when Drogon was hit was perfect, and i don't really mind the whole outcome of the battle too much (better that Bronn and Jamie are captured than killed at this point, Jamie is perhaps the only leverage possible to have on Cersei). i didn't care for the shit talking dothraki who is ignoring the fact that the only reason the Lannister lines broke was dragonfire. without that advantage, it appeared to me that the Westerosi would have put a much greater hurting on the Dothraki horde even in the horde's element... i'll stick with my 9 rating, but its closer to a 9.5...
I gave it an "8." A few things kept it from being higher for me.What I liked:
Some of the Winterfell scenes.Loved the Arya and Brienne scene and little dialogue.Even liked that Sansa felt a bit unsettled with Arya.Conflict brewing hmmmm.
loved the bit of insight into Bran only because his statement about him "not being Bran anymore" peaked my interest.As you all know one of my theory is that the Weirwood is a trap set by the original BTB to basically ensure his immortality by swapping bodies so he doesn't die.
I think the writers won't pull the trigger with that,but its ambiguous enough to cause thought.
Hated that Meera was just dumped in that way.Guess they didn't know what to do with her.
Little finger is coming on harder than Jon Stamos.He is really trying hard to assert himself and its stupid.Not like him.
The Dorthraki scene was really good.The entire coming over the hills;though reminiscent of old Western mobies(You know the Indians coming over the hills)it still was good to see.
It was a feast for the eyes.
Now what was wrong with this entire episode.
1.I hope they do address this but Dany burnt the grain.I thought they needed that? I think this might be a plot point and will come off but I will hold onto it.She just finished saying they are getting starved out soooo.
2.The entire scene with Dany and Jon in the caves was all wrong.
I seem to remember when Stannis got to the Wall and found out from Sam how he killed a ww with Dragonglass.Stannis said Dragon stone was filled ,filled with it.So this was one of the reasons Sam at The Citadel sending a note to Jon saying he found out in a book that DS had Dragonglass wasn't working.Mind you Jon was there when Stannis made that statement.
Which brings me to the caves were on the beach and not deep at all.At all yet there was an entire story about the wws there where the Obsidian was...Which Stannis didn't seem to have noticed all the years he was there.
See the continuity issue and how sloppy this writing is???
3.Jamie tells Bronn Dany could come any day with her Dragons to get Highgarden back.....So there was plan to meet Dorthraki on an open field? Every one forgot that rule.
Didn't Robert say only a fool would do that? Didn't Cersie echo that as well?
Sloppy writing.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
I gave it a 9. This was a great episode, and could have been a 10 but for a few small blunders that marred its potential perfection.
For me, the Arya/Brienne fight didn't work. Brienne either wasn't really trying to get Arya (I would hope not!), or if she was, then what if Arya was a second too slow? The way Brienne was hacking at her, she would have cut her right in two and then felt terrible about it. Meh. [Everything else at Winterfell was superb! I loved all the scenes there, from Arya's homecoming - her looking around the courtyard gave me chills!- to the reunion in the crypts, all three surviving Starks under the weirwood tree, and the Bran/LF interaction, though LF's motives are unclear. I hope we get lots more Winterfell in the coming episodes!!]
Then there was the lack of main character deaths on the Field of Fire. Not that I want Jaime to die, but it would have given the battle the lasting emotional impact that it is now lacking. Or if not Jaime, Drogon. (Sob. I love Drogon. I don't really want him to die either...). Or Bronn at the very least. Though he was super badass in this episode and I look forward to seeing him again. Not even the Tarlys were roasted. Smells like plot armor to me, and I don't like it.
Other than that, I have no major complaints. The battle was the best battle they've done, IMO, and it was impossible to say who should win. Jaime has his flaws but he's no coward, that's for sure. He could have run when they were first attacked, as Bronn suggested, but didn't. Then at the end, he was willing to sacrifice himself to protect Cersei from this foreign queen. This was actually a smarter move than I initially realized: it's Dany they need to kill, not her three full grown dragons. Without her, nobody can control them, and they are lost as a weapon for the other side. The Dothraki have no reason to follow Tyrion or Missandei, so they'll go do their own thing (which may not be ideal, of course, but they'd probably be easier to defeat on their own, and they'd die off soon enough as winter goes on). Dorne and Highgarden seem gone already, so that leaves only the Unsullied, who are also only there for Dany. Take her out and the whole coalition falls apart.
1.I hope they do address this but Dany burnt the grain.I thought they needed that? I think this might be a plot point and will come off but I will hold onto it.She just finished saying they are getting starved out soooo.
While I have little and less faith in D&D, I do believe this was intentional and will have dire consequences for Dany and her allies. It was a major blunder. Yes, it's a good idea to prevent the food from reaching the city you are about to besiege. It's also ok to decimate the other side's army. But burning the food???? NOT OK. And why? She should have taken it for her own armies, obviously. But Jaime woke the dragon and that was the end of rational thought.
Which brings me to the caves were on the beach and not deep at all.At all yet there was an entire story about the wws there where the Obsidian was...Which Stannis didn't seem to have noticed all the years he was there.
I don't mind Stannis not finding the cave art (he really had no reason to be exploring these caves), but given that the COTF and First Men didn't build ships, I don't see how they could have gotten to Dragonstone in the first place. And if there had been COTF/people living there at the start of the Long Night, they never would have seen the Others since they apparently can't cross water. So yeah, there are some real problems with this scene. Luckily, I don't find it a very important scene, so I am only mildly annoyed.
Jamie tells Bronn Dany could come any day with her Dragons to get Highgarden back.....So there was plan to meet Dorthraki on an open field? Every one forgot that rule.
Didn't Robert say only a fool would do that? Didn't Cersie echo that as well?
I don't think they planned to meet them in open battle. It sounded to me as though Highgarden were being left pretty much empty. And why not? They took all the food and all the gold. Much like Casterly Rock, by itself the empty castle isn't worth much.
Of course they must have known there was a possibility that Dany could use her remaining forces to attack the convoy. They wouldn't have brought the scorpion otherwise. Then again, they clearly had no plan for how to fight the dragon with it, as evidenced by it being cumbersome to unload, nobody being assigned to man it the moment a dragon appears, etc. So yes, they clearly weren't expecting to be attacked, and were caught off guard. However, this may not have been their fault. If, as has been proposed by others, Cersei (or maybe Qyburn) has a spy in Dany's ranks, they would feel confident that they would learn of her plans and movements ahead of time. It worked splendidly twice before. BUT, in this case Dany didn't listen to her advisers, she just took Drogon and the Dothraki and attacked. This is where the proximity to KL almost works, as it means she wouldn't have had to travel far at all. (And her army is now in a convenient position to besiege KL, albeit without any food).
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
Post by whitewolfstark on Aug 7, 2017 21:40:43 GMT
I gave it a 7 because, unless you were really invested in the fighting--which I was only turned off by it--the episode was above average, but more or less a twiddling thumbs episode.
The reason I was not involved in the fighting is because I didn't want Dany and the Dothraki to win nor the Lannisters to win. And yet all I could think of was how all the smallfolk would suffer no matter who won. Dany and her burning dragons and pillaging Dothraki, or the Lannisters and their bullying sellswords and arrogant lords. A pox on them both. Sorry I'm not in it for the Fantasy battles, they're rather, boring to be honest--at best.
The best parts? Honestly the Winterfell scenes--sure it's getting everyone into the same room--but most of these characters haven't been in the same room since the pilot.
I gave it a 9. This was a great episode, and could have been a 10 but for a few small blunders that marred its potential perfection.
For me, the Arya/Brienne fight didn't work. Brienne either wasn't really trying to get Arya (I would hope not!), or if she was, then what if Arya was a second too slow? The way Brienne was hacking at her, she would have cut her right in two and then felt terrible about it. Meh. [Everything else at Winterfell was superb! I loved all the scenes there, from Arya's homecoming - her looking around the courtyard gave me chills!- to the reunion in the crypts, all three surviving Starks under the weirwood tree, and the Bran/LF interaction, though LF's motives are unclear. I hope we get lots more Winterfell in the coming episodes!!]
Then there was the lack of main character deaths on the Field of Fire. Not that I want Jaime to die, but it would have given the battle the lasting emotional impact that it is now lacking. Or if not Jaime, Drogon. (Sob. I love Drogon. I don't really want him to die either...). Or Bronn at the very least. Though he was super badass in this episode and I look forward to seeing him again. Not even the Tarlys were roasted. Smells like plot armor to me, and I don't like it.
Other than that, I have no major complaints. The battle was the best battle they've done, IMO, and it was impossible to say who should win. Jaime has his flaws but he's no coward, that's for sure. He could have run when they were first attacked, as Bronn suggested, but didn't. Then at the end, he was willing to sacrifice himself to protect Cersei from this foreign queen. This was actually a smarter move than I initially realized: it's Dany they need to kill, not her three full grown dragons. Without her, nobody can control them, and they are lost as a weapon for the other side. The Dothraki have no reason to follow Tyrion or Missandei, so they'll go do their own thing (which may not be ideal, of course, but they'd probably be easier to defeat on their own, and they'd die off soon enough as winter goes on). Dorne and Highgarden seem gone already, so that leaves only the Unsullied, who are also only there for Dany. Take her out and the whole coalition falls apart.
1.I hope they do address this but Dany burnt the grain.I thought they needed that? I think this might be a plot point and will come off but I will hold onto it.She just finished saying they are getting starved out soooo.
While I have little and less faith in D&D, I do believe this was intentional and will have dire consequences for Dany and her allies. It was a major blunder. Yes, it's a good idea to prevent the food from reaching the city you are about to besiege. It's also ok to decimate the other side's army. But burning the food???? NOT OK. And why? She should have taken it for her own armies, obviously. But Jaime woke the dragon and that was the end of rational thought.
Which brings me to the caves were on the beach and not deep at all.At all yet there was an entire story about the wws there where the Obsidian was...Which Stannis didn't seem to have noticed all the years he was there.
I don't mind Stannis not finding the cave art (he really had no reason to be exploring these caves), but given that the COTF and First Men didn't build ships, I don't see how they could have gotten to Dragonstone in the first place. And if there had been COTF/people living there at the start of the Long Night, they never would have seen the Others since they apparently can't cross water. So yeah, there are some real problems with this scene. Luckily, I don't find it a very important scene, so I am only mildly annoyed.
Jamie tells Bronn Dany could come any day with her Dragons to get Highgarden back.....So there was plan to meet Dorthraki on an open field? Every one forgot that rule.
Didn't Robert say only a fool would do that? Didn't Cersie echo that as well?
I don't think they planned to meet them in open battle. It sounded to me as though Highgarden were being left pretty much empty. And why not? They took all the food and all the gold. Much like Casterly Rock, by itself the empty castle isn't worth much.
Of course they must have known there was a possibility that Dany could use her remaining forces to attack the convoy. They wouldn't have brought the scorpion otherwise. Then again, they clearly had no plan for how to fight the dragon with it, as evidenced by it being cumbersome to unload, nobody being assigned to man it the moment a dragon appears, etc. So yes, they clearly weren't expecting to be attacked, and were caught off guard. However, this may not have been their fault. If, as has been proposed by others, Cersei (or maybe Qyburn) has a spy in Dany's ranks, they would feel confident that they would learn of her plans and movements ahead of time. It worked splendidly twice before. BUT, in this case Dany didn't listen to her advisers, she just took Drogon and the Dothraki and attacked. This is where the proximity to KL almost works, as it means she wouldn't have had to travel far at all. (And her army is now in a convenient position to besiege KL, albeit without any food).
Well per the show Stannis told Sam DS has plenty of Dragonglass...So nobody noticed it?D&D just had a continuity issue.They forgot Dragon glass being on DS was already known to Sam and Jon.
So if it was known then the cave drawings should have already been known.
To clarify I am not saying there was a plan plan.That they were ok with it happening was not good in light of what every good commander knows about meeting the Dothraki on an open field. Jamie knew it was a possibility that Dany could come on her Dragons with the Dorthraki.Which was the problem .He knew it.
You don't want that.She's cut of from all points to get food.So you burn that yourself and get the he'll out if there yourself .
See what I mean?
They have access to more food sacrifice that haul.
Post by silentmajority on Aug 7, 2017 21:55:17 GMT
I gave it a 9 because I felt like they nailed a lot of shit. They had good character development and then plenty of action. I could nitpick it, but I won't. I rate this episode just below Battle of the Bastards because they didn't use nearly as much CGI.
And yet all I could think of was how all the smallfolk would suffer no matter who won.
For all the complaints about that one musicians cameo stirred up it did serve the purpose of showing that not all Lannister soldiers are horrible and need to die.
Bran LF was hilarious at the end, but overall i didn't care for the scene as it seems to be LF just being stupid again.
I think you can tell where GRRM's writing stopped and everyone else's began. LF just isn't smooth and cunning anymore, and I think that is mostly because the show passed the source material.
2.The entire scene with Dany and Jon in the caves was all wrong.
The only issue I had with the cave scene is that the drawings were a little too accurate. Should have been more ambiguous like Egyptian hieroglyphics, and then Missendre could have deciphered it all.
Geek Report: A news aggregator for geeks and nerds
I gave it a 9 because I felt like they nailed a lot of shit. They had good character development and then plenty of action. I could nitpick it, but I won't. I rate this episode just below Battle of the Bastards because they didn't use nearly as much CGI.
And yet all I could think of was how all the smallfolk would suffer no matter who won.
For all the complaints about that one musicians cameo stirred up it did serve the purpose of showing that not all Lannister soldiers are horrible and need to die.
Bran LF was hilarious at the end, but overall i didn't care for the scene as it seems to be LF just being stupid again.
I think you can tell where GRRM's writing stopped and everyone else's began. LF just isn't smooth and cunning anymore, and I think that is mostly because the show passed the source material.
2.The entire scene with Dany and Jon in the caves was all wrong.
The only issue I had with the cave scene is that the drawings were a little too accurate. Should have been more ambiguous like Egyptian hieroglyphics, and then Missendre could have deciphered it all.
Cave was around the corner on the beach where they landed.All anyone had to do was walk in.Hell,Tyrion and Carts came strolling up to it.
I gave it a 9 because I felt like they nailed a lot of shit. They had good character development and then plenty of action. I could nitpick it, but I won't. I rate this episode just below Battle of the Bastards because they didn't use nearly as much CGI.
For all the complaints about that one musicians cameo stirred up it did serve the purpose of showing that not all Lannister soldiers are horrible and need to die.
I think you can tell where GRRM's writing stopped and everyone else's began. LF just isn't smooth and cunning anymore, and I think that is mostly because the show passed the source material.
Without the dragon the Dothraki probably would have been slaughtered. I will take the well armored troops over the poorly armored ones everyday.
The only issue I had with the cave scene is that the drawings were a little too accurate. Should have been more ambiguous like Egyptian hieroglyphics, and then Missendre could have deciphered it all.
Cave was around the corner on the beach where they landed.All anyone had to do was walk in.Hell,Tyrion and Carts came strolling up to it.
Everyone knew that dragon glass was on the island. Stannis mentioned it in earlier seasons. Maybe they just thought it was graffiti?
Geek Report: A news aggregator for geeks and nerds
For all the complaints about that one musicians cameo stirred up it did serve the purpose of showing that not all Lannister soldiers are horrible and need to die.
Agreed, which I am fine with--pairing that scene with this battle though just makes you go: fuck... so many meaningless deaths.
For all the complaints about that one musicians cameo stirred up it did serve the purpose of showing that not all Lannister soldiers are horrible and need to die.
Agreed, which I am fine with--pairing that scene with this battle though just makes you go: fuck... so many meaningless deaths.
That's why I hope they go the "Mad Queen" route in the story line.
Geek Report: A news aggregator for geeks and nerds
All I wanted to say was said by posters above. A combination of parts really. I really enjoyed all Winterfell and I was pleased with part of Dragonstone beach, the battle finale was pretty neat and I appreciated the Golden Company intro since they obviously plan to bring it in at some point. I'm assuming season 8 (?)
I'll just quote the posters on what I liked and maybe add.
i loved Dany spurning her other councilors and asking the KitN what he'd do, and Jon's response was awesome. i know everyone is raving about the field of fire II, but to me the Arya vs. Brienne scene stole the show. i loved the choreography, loved the reactions of Sansa and LF to the scene, and the, "No one" response absolutely nailed it, but i think Brienne and LF both know where she got her training now...
I think Jon passed a test there. He clearly agreed with Tyrion but he was very diplomatic about it and said it in such a way that validated the Hand's opinon. The dynamic of these three is interesting to watch. As long as we don't get Jon is sexually attracted to either and bangs none of the two And when Davos mentioned some supposed staring at Dany's good heart, I fully appreciated Jon Snuh telling Davos: ain't nobody got time for that.
loved the bit of insight into Bran only because his statement about him "not being Bran anymore" peaked my interest.As you all know one of my theory is that the Weirwood is a trap set by the original BTB to basically ensure his immortality by swapping bodies so he doesn't die.
I think the writers won't pull the trigger with that,but its ambiguous enough to cause thought.
Hated that Meera was just dumped in that way.Guess they didn't know what to do with her.
2.The entire scene with Dany and Jon in the caves was all wrong.
Which brings me to the caves were on the beach and not deep at all.At all yet there was an entire story about the wws there where the Obsidian was...Which Stannis didn't seem to have noticed all the years he was there.
See the continuity issue and how sloppy this writing is???
About Bran: I thought the disconnect was a way to cope with the info overload. There's so much tragedy he sees that he doesn't have time to process, I wonder he's still kinda normal... I imagine he's seen Ned's beheading, Robb and Cat's RW deaths, Rickon being killed by Ramsay and who knows what else. So I attributed the coldness and weirdness as a way to detach himself from any closeness, anything that resembles emotion that might be taken away from him by losing another person who's death he'll probably re-live at some point. But your theory is super interesting.
About the cave scene: seven hells! Really I felt like slapping both Dany and Jon silly. Oh, apparently there was sexual attraction they felt in that closed space, according to "Inside the Episode". Cause nothing says it better than pictograms of White Walkers threat and ordering about men to bend knees. Ok, fine maybe that works with kinky danger looming and domineering for some , but I didn't feel it!
(And I better not get a warning for TMI of what triggers kinky sex talk!)
About Stannis: definitely weird. I mean he had Mel there and they never once showed these or mentioned these pics in the cave. That's just weird. Did they not think to set it up before (?) it looked like a plant from Jon to convince Dany of his story about the Others. Seriously, I would not be surprised if he had Davos draw all night those things...
The reason I was not involved in the fighting is because I didn't want Dany and the Dothraki to win nor the Lannisters to win. And yet all I could think of was how all the smallfolk would suffer no matter who won. Dany and her burning dragons and pillaging Dothraki, or the Lannisters and their bullying sellswords and arrogant lords. A pox on them both.
I was the same WhiteWolf!!! I didn't want anybody to lose. And if I liked one thing in the "Inside the Ep" was that Weiss clearly states that's what they looked for. A main character vs main character where you feel uncomfortable because you cannot or don't want to choose a side. Yes, they completely skip the small folk thingy but then again, this specific battle was army vs army. I didn't see any commoners that were not soldiers there so I kind of understand why they do not think that's an issue. Maybe that's why Dany went for the convoy and respected Jon's advice. And Tyrion's implicitly. We will see how much of a choice Dany gives the opponent as I see she says: bend the knee or die in the promo.
Seven help us but this girl is having a theme now with this knee bending.
“Don’t fight in the North, or the South. Fight every battle everywhere. Always, in your mind.”
I have to give it a 10, for a very, very good (completely unrelated) reason. Namely, they finally did something that I've been waiting for GRRM to do since 2011, and GRRM trolled me as he trolled all of us.
I'll explain.
I began reading the books after my wife and son made me watch the first episode of season one of Game of Thrones. It didn't take long. That white walker scene got me hooked, and they knew I wouldn't be able to let myself enjoy the show unless I had read the books. So I began reading. I had read AGOT by the time the second episode aired.
A Game of Thrones did not disappoint. It was, indeed, a game of thrones, played by Ned, Robert, Cersei, and Renly. Awesome stuff.
A Clash of Kings did not disappoint either. Four kings clashed. Robb was kicking ass and taking names, and I was in book-heaven.
A Storm of Swords killed me. The Mrs and I read 51 chapters of it in a day. Couldn't put it down. Voice Jr was acting depressed for about a week, and he wouldn't tell us why. He said we'll know when why soon enough. Mrs Voice and I soon found out, when we got to the 51st chapter. Catelyn VII. The Red Wedding. House Voice was in a state of deep mourning. Even now, it remains one of the darkest hours in our home. Our king was dead. I couldn't bring myself to open the book again for weeks. After many tears and bouts of anger, I finally did read the remaining thirty-something chapters, and was rewarded for overcoming my grief. Lady Stoneheart hung Merrett Frey.
A Feast for Crows was boring as fuck, but it did contain many corpses for many crows to eat. And, it had two great chapters, the alpha and omega: Pate and Samwell V. Marwyn, Marwyn, Marwyn! The glass candles were indeed burning, and suddenly Quaithe seemed way more important.
A Dance with Dragons is one of my favorite books in the series, but only because I so thoroughly enjoy Bran and Jon's chapters. I opened my pristine hardcover edition, ready for Dany to return to Westeros... Game had the game, Clash had the clash, Storm had the storm, and Feast (in spite of the mind-numbing boredom) had the feast... so now, the dragons were going to finally dance!
Welp, not so much.
Instead of kicking ass, Dany would be blowing diarrhea out of it.
Instead of melting Andahli in their castles, Drogon ate a little girl, some sheep, and a horse.
Finally, after six long years, I was able to sate my dancing-dragon thirst. I hope we get more, but for now at least, I've had a pint.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."