The "jet packing" around westeros causes a problem if they were to try to add scenes to show time because it would all be filler or fluff for the most part.
Absolutely no extra scenes required. The passage of time on film can be inferred in many different ways. Transitions, montages, scene order, etc. Christ, just do a fucking Indiana Jones-style map transition !!! Do something !!! Don't just put two scenes right next to each other that take place months apart and make no effort to convey that fact. That. Is. Objectively. Bad. Editing.
I'll give you that, or when they were north of the Wall surrounded by Wights they could have simple said something to the effect of "We only brought 4 days worth of food and almost out."
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I know the majority of us are probably impatiently awaiting the release of The Winds of Winter, and I have often wondered if GRRM will ever deliver it to us. I have hope still ... apparently, others have given up and this is the result. Some of us even question if GRRM can still wax poetic, what with all of that Dany "shatting" in the red waste business, so here is another option.
Read it and know that the article refers to it as "a deeply odd creation" and "Warning, it's a little like meeting someone deeply drunk at a bar". Yes, to both of those things!
The best example of this is Jorah's recovery from Greyscale. EVERYBODY noticed that seemed awful fast, note that it "seemed" awful fast not that it actually was fast. By placing the scene where Sam does the procedure on him toward the end of the episode and the scene where he is cured toward the start of the next, the editor does not create the illusion that the requisite amount of time has passed. This could be simply fixed by placing the cured scene toward the end of the episode or even at the start of the next.
This is a great example of how the show could have made it seem like the passage of time was appropriate. Also, they could have not wrote the line about basically kicking Jorah out in 24 hours if he doesn't kill himself first, right before the miracle cure. It gives the impression all of that happened in one night! Write the scene so that he has to go, but will be given some "time" to convalesce before we kick you out into the hard, cold world OR just write a line about how "if you show any improvement, then you can stay on a bit longer". Either of those lines take up less than 30 seconds of screen time but deliver a huge implication to the plot. Not a cure by Miracle Sam in the span of one hour!
It honestly just seems sloppy from top to bottom. I get the writing has been questionable, but for gosh sake, isn't anyone on the set noticing this crap? Don't the actor's in the scenes think "whoa, this isn't logical", etc! It just frustrates me because it is SOOOOOO sloppy! And it gives the impression that they no longer care about the product!
So Jon comes up with a plan to convince Cersei that the army of the dead is real by capturing a wight but he suggests that Dany fly her dragons north to assist in the capture. Dany wants to help yummy Jon Snow but is protective of her children (& greatest military asset, btw). She seems like she might go for it but Tyrion talks her out of it and Jon decides to go off and try to capture a wight the old fashioned way. During the expedition Jon & Co capture a wight but are pinned down by the AotD. Jon sends Gendry back to Eastwatch to raise the alarm. While the expedition is going on we cut once or twice to Dany on D'stone feeling guilty AF that she let Jon go off like that and she decides (unsolicited) to head to Eastwatch with her dragons to see if she can help. She arrives at Eastwatch where Davos (atop the wall mind) tells her that it's been two days since the party set out and they haven't heard anything. Just at that moment they see a figure approach the wall and hear a blast on a horn. They head down and find an absolutely fucked Gendry, you don't even need any dialogue. Cut back to the expedition as they make a final stand, Dany arrives to save the day, Visy is shot down and Dany, in absolute desolation at the loss of her child, gets off Drogon and tries to go to the stricken Vis. Jon jumps off Drogon and grabs Dany, forcing her back on to Drogon, he then looks directly into Drogon's eye and says, "get her to safety". Drogon roars, toasts another few wights and takes off with Jorah cradling a distraught Dany. Jon, in full last stand mode, finds a force multiplier, perhaps a ravine or cave and tries to kill as many wights as possible. The wights begin to overwhelm Jon and he is hurt. Benjen arrives and pops a near unconscious Jon on his horse, slaps the horses arse and faces his inevitable, final, death.
This is worlds better than what we saw in the show! It applies some logic, some suspense, and some concept of the passage of time to the plot.
When Tyrion gives Dany his "thousand arrows" speech, it doesn't occur to him to suggest she wear armour ?
Who needs real armor when you have plot armor? I guess that is what the show thinks. I am still thrown off by the lack of helmets in battle scenes, FFS!
Dany would look great in armor, I agree, and it would be logical if she wore some or was given some. And a helmet! However, I suppose all that arrow talk is foreshadowing how Dany will die, by a flight of arrows. And if her dragons had wore armor, then the Night's King javelin-thrower-extraordinaire could never have killed a dragon, raised said dragon as a wight or White Walker dragon, destroyed the wall that has stood for 8000 years in 45 seconds, and marched his blue eyed army south! Plot!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I know the majority of us are probably impatiently awaiting the release of The Winds of Winter, and I have often wondered if GRRM will ever deliver it to us. I have hope still ... apparently, others have given up and this is the result. Some of us even question if GRRM can still wax poetic, what with all of that Dany "shatting" in the red waste business, so here is another option.
Read it and know that the article refers to it as "a deeply odd creation" and "Warning, it's a little like meeting someone deeply drunk at a bar". Yes, to both of those things!
Propraganda?!? Bah! I read her long before they finished that series up and my impression was worse than what they had pointed out! At most I had seen the first one before I read the books. I think they ran with some things I pointed out to them after reading too, but I haven't asked so can't say for certain. Sounded very much like my own thoughts. I am an unsofisticated snark, though. I don't agree 100% with all they say of her, or with all of their theories for that matter, but I like the way they think and do their best to keep it to the actual text and research of it (meaning of names and parallells to our world mythology etc). All those seeing her as a herioc wife and mother smothered by grief etc, have truuuuuly drank the coolaid!
It is a bit of anti-Catelyn propoganda, you can't deny. And I don't mind it, and I actually find some humor in how strongly they feel about it. It's how I feel about Carrie Underwood and sauerkraut! Nothing can convince me that are not on this planet because the devil planted them here!
As to Catelyn, I see her bad qualities but I think she is very complicated. I think of her as having a bit of a Cassandra complex. Cassandra in greek mythology was gifted with the ability to see the future but cursed because no one would believe her! In a twisted way, I think Cat is like that. She knows for some reason, that Jon is a threat to her children's inheritance of Winterfell. I think on some level she knows that Jon is the true heir to Winterfell! Which makes sense if Jon is Brandon's son and he married Jon's mother, or if he is Ned's son, and he married Jon's mother before Ned married Cat. There are several other times when her instincts are good but ... Her curse, is that while her instincts might be good, she then goes ahead and takes the WORST possible action, that have terrible consequences. Decent insight followed by terrible decisions, it happens over and over and over for Catelyn Tully Stark!
All those seeing her as a herioc wife and mother smothered by grief etc, have truuuuuly drank the coolaid!
She and Cersei are very similar in the sense that they really think they are SMART but neither really are. They are actually very similar characters, honestly, and it does surprise me how many people love Cat and hate Cersei! I would like to work all the details out of how similar they are to each other, but as we previously discussed, it's hard to stay in her head too long, or Cersei's.
Seriously: That whould've been a great idea! Damn, they should just let certain fans write the episodes!
Actually, if Dany got some armor and her breast plate had nipples on it, and those nipples on her breast plate were actually the reason she didn't die, I would LOVE that!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Book will be R+L=A (YGriff) if R+L happens at all.
(I have a feeling this wasn't your post shymaid, but a guest post, that the system has credited to you?)
I have for so long avoided the thought of Rhaegar and Lyanna even having a child, or even spending time together in this story, it's hard for me to fathom. However, I have felt like if they did have a child, it is certainly not Jon!
I'll give you that, or when they were north of the Wall surrounded by Wights they could have simple said something to the effect of "We only brought 4 days worth of food and almost out."
In many cases, short lines like that really could have smoothed over the continuity of the plot weirdness. But they didn't do that. They are the professionals and can's seem to see that, and we are lay people as far as professional writing goes, and we recognize an easy, logical fix. I just find it frustrating!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Assuming that the Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage is book cannon, I certainly hope that GRRM chooses to explain WHY it was necessary to keep it much a big secret. Here is a thought. She could have left a note saying she was willingly running off with Rhaegar. Nope, instead they keep it a secret and perhaps hundreds of thousands of people die, including almost her entire family.
It is a bit of anti-Catelyn propoganda, you can't deny. And I don't mind it, and I actually find some humor in how strongly they feel about it. It's how I feel about Carrie Underwood and sauerkraut! Nothing can convince me that are not on this planet because the devil planted them here!
Haha, maybe a bit. But then most strongly held beliefs can take the form of propaganda. My personal bias might be that she reminds me of someone I shared an appartment with for a few months, and it was truly horrible!
As to Catelyn, I see her bad qualities but I think she is very complicated. I think of her as having a bit of a Cassandra complex. Cassandra in greek mythology was gifted with the ability to see the future but cursed because no one would believe her! In a twisted way, I think Cat is like that. She knows for some reason, that Jon is a threat to her children's inheritance of Winterfell. I think on some level she knows that Jon is the true heir to Winterfell! Which makes sense if Jon is Brandon's son and he married Jon's mother, or if he is Ned's son, and he married Jon's mother before Ned married Cat. There are several other times when her instincts are good but ... Her curse, is that while her instincts might be good, she then goes ahead and takes the WORST possible action, that have terrible consequences. Decent insight followed by terrible decisions, it happens over and over and over for Catelyn Tully Stark!
I agree with most of what you say, but see her as potentially darker than this. I suspect some of her actions is done out of pure hatred, and have a hard time believing her selfpity own thoughts. She is complex, I agree with you there! I'm 50/50 on NAJ or ALJ at this point, I have a hard time with Brandon as his father. If it's NAJ I wouldn't be suprised if he was legitimate.
She and Cersei are very similar in the sense that they really think they are SMART but neither really are. They are actually very similar characters, honestly, and it does surprise me how many people love Cat and hate Cersei! I would like to work all the details out of how similar they are to each other, but as we previously discussed, it's hard to stay in her head too long, or Cersei's.
They are! It's fascinating seeing how different people can see the same set of information! I can't really understand how Martin has the stomac to write these two, haha! One page at the time?
Actually, if Dany got some armor and her breast plate had nipples on it, and those nipples on her breast plate were actually the reason she didn't die, I would LOVE that!
Well, Jamie says multiple times that nipples on a breastplate is totally useless. Therefor it's hard to understand that they haven't used it in the show! Maybe that will be the final icing on the last season!
I agree with most of what you say, but see her as potentially darker than this. I suspect some of her actions is done out of pure hatred, and have a hard time believing her selfpity own thoughts. She is complex, I agree with you there!
I think the Catelyn lies to herself in her own POV, or at least alters her memories or her perception of events. We see this with Sansa, too. They are very similar and that is why I have a hard time trusting in Sansa's character. Time will tell.
I'm 50/50 on NAJ or ALJ at this point, I have a hard time with Brandon as his father. If it's NAJ I wouldn't be suprised if he was legitimate.
If he is Brandon's, he is much older than we have been lead to believe. But the timeline on all of the children born around this time is vague. Jon, Dany, Robb, Sam, (f)Aegon, Meera, Gendry are all around the same age but who knows who comes first. Robb is the most specific, and it is still vague in the greater timeline. Meera is certainly interesting, as she is listed as the same age as Jon, Sam, Gendry, Robb, but if Howland was away fighting in the Rebellion for a year, where does her conception and birth lie, and who the hell is Jyana Reed? Jyana is VERY similar to Lyanna but it screams Red Herring to me. It's all so darn confusing.
Bran refers to Jon and Robb being "of an age" which indicates they are about the same age, or at least thought to be. When Ned meets Gendry at Tobho Mott's shop, he notes that Gendry is "about Robb's age", which indicates to me that Ned see's somewhat of a difference in the ages of Jon and Robb. Part of the tangled web of mystery we have been served up with no conclusion in site!
Last Edit: Sept 2, 2017 19:30:22 GMT by stdaga: grammar ... yikes!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Assuming that the Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage is book cannon, I certainly hope that GRRM chooses to explain WHY it was necessary to keep it much a big secret. Here is a thought. She could have left a note saying she was willingly running off with Rhaegar. Nope, instead they keep it a secret and perhaps hundreds of thousands of people die, including almost her entire family.
Of course, it is possible that the "story" was changed after the rebel's won the war, to make their cause look more just. Rhaegar needed to look like the bad guy; the Targaryens needed to be at fault! If it appeared like a stupid girl falling in love with a handsome prince caused this whole mess, then it probably weakens the cause of the Usurper's claim. I don't actually know if it does, as they still won the war by conquest, but it might have been an argument used.
If it is true, then it makes Rhaegar and Lyanna both look very bad, and it should. They made poor choices that affected millions of people, and if the only reason is for "love" I might have a stroke!
I have seen arguments made that indicate that Lyanna did "leave a note" or in some way try to tell people that she eloped with Rhaegar by her own choice, but that message was lost or kept hidden. I don't know if I buy any of that. Usually I see Littlefinger getting the blame for this, but everything can't be his fault, right?
No doubt, if RLJ is the case in the books, GRRM will do a much better job of explaining it than the show has done!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Assuming that the Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage is book cannon, I certainly hope that GRRM chooses to explain WHY it was necessary to keep it much a big secret. Here is a thought. She could have left a note saying she was willingly running off with Rhaegar. Nope, instead they keep it a secret and perhaps hundreds of thousands of people die, including almost her entire family.
Of course, it is possible that the "story" was changed after the rebel's won the war, to make their cause look more just. Rhaegar needed to look like the bad guy; the Targaryens needed to be at fault! If it appeared like a stupid girl falling in love with a handsome prince caused this whole mess, then it probably weakens the cause of the Usurper's claim. I don't actually know if it does, as they still won the war by conquest, but it might have been an argument used.
If it is true, then it makes Rhaegar and Lyanna both look very bad, and it should. They made poor choices that affected millions of people, and if the only reason is for "love" I might have a stroke!
I have seen arguments made that indicate that Lyanna did "leave a note" or in some way try to tell people that she eloped with Rhaegar by her own choice, but that message was lost or kept hidden. I don't know if I buy any of that. Usually I see Littlefinger getting the blame for this, but everything can't be his fault, right?
No doubt, if RLJ is the case in the books, GRRM will do a much better job of explaining it than the show has done!
I could see her leaving Robert a note, and him throwing it into the fire. Robert then become the worst person ever.
Book will be R+L=A (YGriff) if R+L happens at all.
For some reason, it attributes the quick quote to shymaid instead of Guest AD. I've checked that feature to see if there is an issue, but it appears to be fine. shymaid was the last person to post in the thread before Guest AD, so I'm thinking the plugin attributed it to her because of that.
Book will be R+L=A (YGriff) if R+L happens at all.
We didn't intend for Guests to be able to create posts in this board (Guests have a board here), partially because technical difficulties such as these can arise. So, I must needs disable guests posts in these Season Seven boards.
Apologies for the minor inconvenience, shymaid and stdaga . And I extend my greatest apology to you, Guest AD. I hope that you will join as a member and continue the discussion! This is not at all a slight against you, it's only a precaution we practice in order to keep the main boards functioning properly.
Until you join, here is the link again to the Guest Board, moderated by Wraith: Guest Right
And to your point, I must say, I completely agree!
Show-Jon = Book-Aegon
We've seen hints to that point for a while, but now, it is very much confirmed:
GRRM's"Aegon Targaryen"
Is seen in a vision with his mother while sweet sad music is playing (ACOK Dany IV)
Dany entertains the notion of being his partner (ADWD Dany I)
Is proclaimed "the prince that was promised" (ACOK Dany IV)
Is removed from his mother, given a false identity, and is adopted by a new father (ADWD Tyrion VI)
Desires to make common cause with Daenerys Targaryen (ADWD Tyrion VI)
Is discovered to be the heir to the Iron Throne with an even stronger claim than Daenerys Targaryen (ADWD Tyrion VI)
Is named "King" in defiance of Dany and the Lannisters (ADWD The Lost Lord)
Ignores protective counsel and bravely departs to meet his enemies personally (ADWD The Griffin Reborn)
D&D's Jon "Aegon Targaryen" Snow
Is seen in a vision with his mother while sweet sad music is playing (by Bran S6 E3)
Dany entertains the notion of being his partner (S7 E6-7)
Is proclaimed "the prince that was promised" (by Mel S6 E4)
Is removed from his mother, given a false identity, and is adopted by a new father (S6 E3, S7 E7)
Desires to make common cause with Daenerys Targaryen (S7)
Is discovered to be the heir to the Iron Throne with an even stronger claim than Daenerys Targaryen (by Bran & Samwell S6 E7)
Is named "King" in defiance of Dany and the Lannisters (S6 E10)
Ignores protective counsel and bravely departs to meet his enemies personally (S7 E2)
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
I could see her leaving Robert a note, and him throwing it into the fire. Robert then become the worst person ever.
Could be the case about Robert, but he is already written in many shades of grey, and I don't see him moving toward the darker or lighter spectrum. I think it's our characters that are introduced to us as dark (like Jaime) who will move toward the light, and characters that are introduced to us as light (like the Neddard) who will move toward the dark.
So, if any of this kidnapping/eloping stuff pans out, maybe it was Ned that Lyanna notified, and therefore more of the responsibility/blame of the previous war falls into his shoulders, as well as this current war. I think Ned is bound to fall a bit from the pedestal that he has been placed on. I like a darker shade of Ned, myself!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
...it made it look like she was quoting herself. I fixed that post to show that she was quoting the guest.
Interestingly, if we hit the "Quote" button for the guest's post, rather than "Quick Quote", the author is listed correctly:
Thanks for fixing it voice . Interesting about the quick quote for guest's. If I see that again, I will just use the quote function. Good stuff to know.
It actually makes sense about Guest's not posting on threads. I was rather surprised to see a guest post. That might be the first one I ever have noticed.
And to your point, I must say, I completely agree!
Show-Jon = Book-Aegon
It really looks like this is possible. I actually just did a reread of Young Griff chapter's after the season finale, as I am looking for anything that helps make sense of what the hell the show is doing! It is also distracting me from my Cersei reread, which is proving to be rather painful!
when they were north of the Wall surrounded by Wights they could have simple said something to the effect of "We only brought 4 days worth of food and almost out."
Simple solutions for simple problems and look at that, neither one of us runs a TV show. Well I don't, if you're secretly Scott Buck or something then can I just say fuck you for Iron Fist, the final season of Dexter & Inhumans