Post by stdaga on May 5, 2018 20:48:56 GMT
This chapter is so full of possible hints that it it's like a treasure trove, but I will try to stick just to parentage thoughts. I think there is much in this chapter that hints to us of Jon's father actually being Arthur Dayne, and I think there are some idea's about Samwell not being the blood son of Randyll Tarly, as we are told.
Since we get our introduction to Sam in this chapter, I will start with some of the things that stand out to me about him. Sam is described as being the fattest boy that Jon had ever seen (approx 20 stone), multiple chins, pale eyes, great round moon of a face, his girth and head are so large that Donal Noye has to specially fit him with pieced together armor and helm that is adapted to fit his large head.
One thing that has always stood out be me in the description of Sam is his "pale eye's", with no color descriptor to help us out. Pale eyes are associated with several people in the story, namely Roose Bolton and Ramsay Snow, and while I suppose it's possible that Roose the Raper might have planted a seed during Robert's Rebellion while he warred in the south, I have a hard time connecting Roose to Melessa Florent. However, if such a thing happened, it could explain why a lord of relatively small house married the daughter of House Florent, who might not hold Highgarden, but claim that they should. She was pregnant and needed a husband fast. It seems like a very good marriage for Randyll to have made, however he might have earned this by his prowess as a commander during Robert's Rebellion.
One other thing in this chapter does stand out to me and makes me think of the Bolton's.
This skinning of a carcass does remind me of the flayed man of House Bolton, both in sigil and in what we are told in the text, of Bolton's skinning Stark's or other enemies, although in the text, we only get Ramsay flaying people, and never Roose. Still, pale eyes and flayed carcasses in Sam's story line does have a hint of Bolton foreshadowing.
Ilyn Payne also has pale eyes, and I doubt he is Sam's father. One other connection to pale eyes in the text does stand out to me, and that is that Viserys is noted to have pale lilac eyes. Of course, if GRRM had told us that Sam had lilac or purple eyes, then it would be a huge giveaway that Sam might carry either blood of House Targaryen or House Dayne. (If this argument can work for RLJ and Jon's dark grey but probably purple eyes, then I can use it for this, right?) But I do think it's possible, very tinfoily, but possible, that Sam does carry Targaryen blood, possibly is even the son of Rhaegar.
If so, I lean toward Sam being the son of Rhaegar and Elia, but it's possible that he is Rhaegar's child by a different mother. While I don't personally like the idea of Rhaegar and Lyanna having a child, she is a possibility. In this chapter, we will see that Sam, who is afraid of everything, does not seem at all afraid of Ghost, a huge and fierce direwolf, and Ghost is quite gentle with Sam, even licking his tears and sitting calmly beside him, which could indicate some kind of connection.
I know it would be wild to speculate that Sam is Rhaegar's son, but I think it's possible that Sam is baby Aegon, and that Rhaegar was able to smuggle both his children away from Dragonstone and to safety before Aerys sent for Elia and the children and brought them to Kings Landing as hostages. If Rhaegar was smart, I think he would have protected his children, but at least his son and heir. We see this theme repeated in our story, with Ned trying to get Sansa and Arya out of KL, with Davos smuggling Edric Storm away from Stannis and Mel, with Tommen before the battle of the Blackwater (and even Tyrion didn't know where Tommen was going to be sent). If baby Sam was placed in Horn Hill with Targaryen sympathizer's but almost no one knew he was there, perhaps he was just forgotten by time.
In this chapter, Sam tells us that Randyll tried to make a warrior out of Sam but eventually became discouraged and left him alone. And we get this information from Sam:
So, Randyll refers to Sam as his heir, not his son, which I think it an important clue. Then we hear that Randyll tells Sam that the land and title he is supposed to inherit belongs to Dickon, and that it is his brother's inheritance. The land, title, inheritance all belong to Dickon, who is younger than Sam, but who is probably Randyl's own seed, while Sam is not. These things seem so clear.
Tying Sam to the Targaryen's is harder, and there is little proof. I use the pale eyes to link to Viserys' pale lilac eyes, even knowing the color descriptor is missing for Sam. The text of the novel's never states what Sam's hair color is, although the wiki says it's dark, and links that back to this chapter, this information does not exist in the books. We are never told what color Sam's hair is. It could be Targaryen white for all we know, or golden, or brown or black or kissed by fire red. It might be dark, as the wiki and the HBO show tells us, but Elia Martell had dark hair and so did young Rhaenys.
Another thing that connects to me is Sam's connection to the moon, his face is round as the moon, pale as the moon, and another character that we get who is connected to the moon, is Daenerys. We also get the idea of the moon in a moon which by Qartheen legend cracked open to pour dragon's onto the world. Dany is Drogo's "moon of my life". Part of my idea is based on thinking that Dany is Rhaegar's child (possibly by Lyanna but more likely by Ashara Dayne). I think Sam is Aegon and Dany is the third head, probably Visenya, that Rhaegar was hoping for. Moon's are connected to the birth of dragon's and dragon's are noted to be Targaryen's of all ages.
Another connection between Sam and Dany is they have both encountered Warlock's from Qarth. Dany in the House of the Undying and in Qarth, and Sam when two warlocks came to Horn Hill and bathed him in the blood of a bull aurochs (I hope this doesn't foreshadow bad things for Grenn). Doesn't it seem odd that two warlock's from Qarth would travel all the way to Horn Hill to spend some time with Samwell Tarly?
Another thing that stands out to me is that Sam tells us he loves music, books, songs, spending time in the kitchens, sleeping with his sister's ( ), he is not a warrior, but we will see in his arc that with the correct encouragement and circumstances, Sam can be trained with bow and arrow and he even manages to kill an Other. We are told that Rhaegar as a child had no interest in swords but only in books, to the extent that he was teased for being Baelor the Blessed come again. Rhaegar only decided he needed to train to be a warrior after reading something in a book. Sam gains knowledge from what he reads in books. These things are loose connections, but still could be possible hints to connect Sam to Rhaegar.
One other little connection in the text is that Sam says his passion was kittens, among other things. Kitten's. Another Targaryen who is noted to have loved kittens was Rhaenys, Rhaegar and Elia's daughter, who is said to have named a black kitten Balerion. A kitten that might have grown up to be a large black cat that still stalks the Red Keep. Kitten's don't get mentioned much in this story, at least in comparison to dogs. Joffrey cut's some kittens out of it's mother's belly and earns a smack from Robert for this cruelty,Tommen is connected to kittens, the sealord of Braavos had a kitten, and Daario treat's Dany's dragons as if they were three kitten's in a corner. This connection to kittens and dragon's stands out to me, but it's really thin ice. Still Rhaenys and Sam both have kitten connections, and kitten's are at time likened to dragon's in this story.
***
Let's look at Jon for a bit. Jon opens this chapter by teaching Dareon how to fight, and we know he has been helping Grenn and Pyp. This is one of those things that reminds me of Arthur Dayne. We hear from Jaime that Arthur taught him fighting technique as well as how to be a knight. Jon takes on the role as leader and protector to the other recruits of the Night's Watch, as well as Sam Tarly when he get's to the wall. This hints to me of the little we know of Arthur Dayne. This could be a hint at Ned as father as well, but Ned actually is never noted to have trained physically in the text or practices swordplay with his sons, and we only see him fight once against Jaime's men in the street. I think of Arthur as a fighter more than I think of Ned as a fighter. Jon is a fighter, he is good, he helps his brother's, and he continues to train to become better all of the time, recognizing the need for practice. This reminds me of SAD.
Jon will tell Halder (and us) that "There's no honor in beating a fallen foe. He yielded." This sounds like a very Ned thing to say, but depending on what we know about the toj and SAD, perhaps, this words might have come out of Ser Arthur Dayne's lips. The only fight we hear of Dayne being in is against the Smiling Knight, and while it could be looked at like Dayne was toying with the Smiling Knight, it is also possible SAD was attempting to give the Smiling Knight a chance to yield, and when this didn't happen after many chances, only then did SAD put an end to the fight. This line could also hint at Robert as the father, as we know that Robert turned a lot of enemies into friends after they yielded or took a knee.
***
Almost two years ago now, I decided to look at the parentage puzzle in this story with a clear eye, and this chapter stood out to be as having hints of Ser Arthur Dayne as Jon's father. One of the things that stood out to me is how Jon, Green and Pyp take a stance together to protect Sam. Not even going to the idea of Sam as a Targaryen heir that needs protecting, we see a mirror of the kingsguard at the tower of joy.
Grenn is called an aurochs, is noted to be large and not perhaps very smart. I am not calling Gerald Hightower stupid, but he is called the White Bull, an animal that is large like an aurochs is large. Then we have Pyp, who is small and noted in this chapter to have ear's like a bat. (I have some Florent tinfoil for Pyp with this comment, also) and who always has something to say and is very entertaining to his brothers, but it really could be a hint at Oswell Whent. The Whent sigil is a bat and Oswell Whent is remembered for his dark humor in Jaime's recollections. If a person thinks of Grenn as Gerald Hightower and Pyp as Oswell Whent, it leads to thinking of Jon as Ser Arthur Dayne.
Now, I am not trying to claim that Grenn or Pyp are the son's of Hightower or Whent, but I do think it's possible that Jon is the son of Arthur Dayne. (It's possible that Jon is only playing a role here that parallel's the toj scene and has nothing to do with parentage) Jon has given up his life and joined the Night's Watch, where as Ser Arthur did the same when he joined the Kingsguard. Both claim the men of their respective choices as brother's. Much of Jon's arc deals with "his father" and temptation and vows. As far as we know, Ned didn't take any vows that would link to this line of thought from Jon, but Arthur did. And he might have been just as tempted and tormented as we see Jon is at times in his own story line.
I know this has been discussed at length on different threads over the years, but this chapter, really hints of Ser Arthur Dayne and Jon to me. A father and son parallel.
***
Jon introduces himself to Sam as Jon Snow, Ned Stark's bastard of Winterfell, and Sam introduces himself as Samwell Tarly, son of Lord Randyll of Horn Hill. How ironic it would be if both of these identities are false, are identities given to infants 15 years ago to protect them from people who wanted to harm them, and if this turns out to be true, then Ser Alliser Thornes words "The mummer's farce has gone on long enough" could really mean Jon and Sam living the false identities they were given.
***
I mentioned earlier that Sam and Ghost's reactions to each other could hint at a Stark connection for Sam, but one thing that makes me not see a north or Stark connection for Sam but one for Jon is this passage.
Although Jon did complain in the last chapter about feeling cold at the wall, I think that his more of him emotionally missing Winterfell and the "warmth" of home. Here, we have Sam hating the cold, and not enjoying the snow, while all Jon does is smile. This passage really reminds me of Robert complaining about the snow to Ned, and Ned calling the snow's mild. Ned didn't smile at Robert's complaints, but it almost feel like there is an implied smile in Ned's words when responding to Robert's complaints.
Of course, to be fair, Jon was raised in the climate of the north, and Sam was not. We see Ned uncomfortable with the heat of Kings Landing, and Jon might feel the same way. Hard to say if this is a parentage hint or not!
***
I am not certain how close Jon and Sam are age wise. We know that Jon has already turned 15, we were told that in the last chapter but the passage of time is questionable in the story. Sam tells us that he left Horn Hill on his fifteenth name day, (Is this Sam's real nameday, however?) but I am not sure how long it took them to travel from that far south all the way to the wall. Did they rid all the way? Did they seek passage on a ship for some of the journey. I am not honestly sure of which of them might be older, although I would think Sam is. But I used to think Sam was probably a year or so older than Jon, but now I am not sure of that. If Sam and Jon turn out to be twins, I might throw up a little bit.
***
This chapter give us the first information we have about Jon's crypt dreams.
I am not sure how much of this dream can tell us about Jon's father, but it certainly is prophetic. Jon does talk about looking for several people in his dreams and he refer's to his father (although he never names Ned, so this could indicate Brandon or Rickard, who both lie in the crypts), his brother Robb, his sister Arya and his uncle, who he names as Benjen. Now, are these things Jon is saying based on what he has known his whole life, and perhaps we should take this wording with a grain of salt, or it could be GRRM speaking to us through Jon, which does make Robb his brother, Arya his sister and Benjen his uncle. I can see multiple possibilities, but if his father isn't Ned, then the other two Stark's that lie most recently in the crypts stand out to me as possible fathers of Jon.
Also, Jon tells us that he is not afraid of the crypts, the darkness or the Kings of Winter, but he is afraid of the empty Winterfell and the bones in the stable, as well as what ever seems to be calling him or that is drawing him into the crypts. This is what initially lead to me believing that Dawn was in the crypts. I am not as sure of that as I used to be, but it's still possible, and that would be another connection to Ser Arthur Dayne as Jon's father!
"I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go anyway" On some level Jon doesn't feel like he is a Stark because he is a Snow, but with his Stark like features, he has to have a Stark parent, either mother or father or perhaps both. Now, it's possible that the truth of Jon's parentage is what he is afraid of. It could be finding out that Ned is NOT his father that he fears (which means Lyanna would have to be his Stark parent), that Ned is his father and that Lyanna is his mother, which would make Jon a product of incest, which seems to be considered an abomination by many (although Jon never feels this way about Gilly or her child, which could mean on some level he understands that it's not the child's fault if incest is the case), or it could be a combination of this, with Lyanna as his mother with Brandon or Rickard as his father. What he is searching for might also be Lyanna's grave, but I certainly hope we don't ever find Prince Silverstring's harp or a dragon wedding cloak in the blackness of the crypts. If Lyanna is the mother, possibilities for a father that are not of Stark blood are many: Rhaegar, Arthur, Robert, or Mance.
When Jon asks if Sam dreams of Horn Hill, Sam denies this and states he hates it there. I have always felt like we are missing something. Perhaps Sam does dream of a place that is home, that he doesn't hate. I think if that place was Winterfell, we would get some indication of that. So, if Sam dreams of such a place, and it isn't Winterfell because he isn't a Stark, then where does Sam dream off? Could it have a red door? Again, is this a link to Daenerys as a sibling?
Shout out to something shymaid mentioned in a previous chapter discussion about Ned's crypt dreams always have him waking in darkness, while other dreams have him waking in moonlight. This dream of the crypts has Jon waking in the "darkness of his cell".
***
I also find it interesting that Sam mentions Heartsbane, the Tarly family ancestreal sword, that was meant to be his, but is now Dickon's legacy. We know that Jon has Ice, the Stark family Valyrian steel sword that is to be Robb's legacy after Ned's death. It just seems important that both Jon and Sam grew up with family blades (both Valyrian steel great swords) but Sam lost the blade he thought was to be his along with Horn Hill, and Jon grew up never thinking he would get the blade that was Ned's sword because of his bastard status, even though Jon covet's Ice and Winterfell.
Also, Cat tells us that Ice is 400 years old and Sam tells us that Heartsbane is 500 years old. If these ages are accurate, could that make Ice one of the last blades made in Valyria before the Doom, and could forging Ice have anything to do with what happened to cause the doom? Just a thought I had this time through the chapter.
***
The first part of this passage, about Jon's sudden fury, reminds me a bit of Robert's furious outbursts. It also reminds me of Ned's "his fury was on him" from Cat's POV, as well as Ned's "red rage". A hint at Ned's temper, or just Stark temper in general. If this is a parentage hint, it could fit Brandon the Wild Wolf!
However, the rest of the passage reminds me of Jaime's story about how Ser Arthur Dayne helped take down the Kingswood Brotherhood, byhelping, cajoling, working with the small folk, working with people in which ever way was necessary to get the job done. Even Jon isn't able to talk all of the trainee's into cooperating and he needs to use Ghost as a weapon to bring Rast to heel.
***
Jon is now thinking of Sam and the Night's Watch members as his brothers, not "his father's sons", which was something that Benjen had told Jon when Benjen talked about Eddard as his brother by blood but not by oath, and how taking your vow's changes you and gives you new brothers. I wonder if either Jon or Benjen really believe that to be true? I don't think we have seen the last of Benjen Stark, and honestly, I find myself curious what his reaction will be if and when he finds out about Ned's death. Will he feel reserved sorrow, or will he feel a certain rage?
We never get a lot of Jon's feelings on Robb's death, or even Bran or Rickon's. I don't know if Jon doesn't care as much as he used to, or if he is protecting himself under that black cloak and not allowing himself to "feel" their deaths. But when he is faced with losing Arya in Dance, it seems like Jon is ready to admit to himself that he is not ready to lose another sibling.
Also, Jon draws a clear line pointing to Catelyn as the reason that he had never been truly a brother to his siblings, but is that true? I am certain Cat did make it clear that Jon was different than her trueborn children, but perhaps the difference does lie in Jon being a cousin to the Stark kids and not a sibling at all?
***
Honestly, there is probably a lot more than can be picked out of the text in this chapter, but I am feeling a bit fried and almost like I am rambling by this time, so I am just going to stop.
Since we get our introduction to Sam in this chapter, I will start with some of the things that stand out to me about him. Sam is described as being the fattest boy that Jon had ever seen (approx 20 stone), multiple chins, pale eyes, great round moon of a face, his girth and head are so large that Donal Noye has to specially fit him with pieced together armor and helm that is adapted to fit his large head.
One thing that has always stood out be me in the description of Sam is his "pale eye's", with no color descriptor to help us out. Pale eyes are associated with several people in the story, namely Roose Bolton and Ramsay Snow, and while I suppose it's possible that Roose the Raper might have planted a seed during Robert's Rebellion while he warred in the south, I have a hard time connecting Roose to Melessa Florent. However, if such a thing happened, it could explain why a lord of relatively small house married the daughter of House Florent, who might not hold Highgarden, but claim that they should. She was pregnant and needed a husband fast. It seems like a very good marriage for Randyll to have made, however he might have earned this by his prowess as a commander during Robert's Rebellion.
One other thing in this chapter does stand out to me and makes me think of the Bolton's.
Until the dawn of his fifteenth name day, when he had been awakened to find his horse saddled and ready. Three men-at-arms had escorted him into a wood near Horn Hill, where his father was skinning a deer. "You are almost a man grown now, and my heir," Lord Randyll Tarly had told his eldest son, his long knife laying bare the carcass as he spoke. "You have given me no cause to disown you, but neither will I allow you to inherit the land and title that should be Dickon's. Heartsbane must go to a man strong enough to wield her, and you are not worthy to touch her hilt. So I have decided that you shall this day announce that you wish to take the black. You will forsake all claim to your brother's inheritance and start north before evenfall.
"If you do not, then on the morrow we shall have a hunt, and somewhere in these woods your horse will stumble, and you will be thrown from the saddle to die … or so I will tell your mother. She has a woman's heart and finds it in her to cherish even you, and I have no wish to cause her pain. Please do not imagine that it will truly be that easy, should you think to defy me. Nothing would please me more than to hunt you down like the pig you are." His arms were red to the elbow as he laid the skinning knife aside. "So. There is your choice. The Night's Watch"—he reached inside the deer, ripped out its heart, and held it in his fist, red and dripping—"or this." AGOT-Jon IV
"If you do not, then on the morrow we shall have a hunt, and somewhere in these woods your horse will stumble, and you will be thrown from the saddle to die … or so I will tell your mother. She has a woman's heart and finds it in her to cherish even you, and I have no wish to cause her pain. Please do not imagine that it will truly be that easy, should you think to defy me. Nothing would please me more than to hunt you down like the pig you are." His arms were red to the elbow as he laid the skinning knife aside. "So. There is your choice. The Night's Watch"—he reached inside the deer, ripped out its heart, and held it in his fist, red and dripping—"or this." AGOT-Jon IV
This skinning of a carcass does remind me of the flayed man of House Bolton, both in sigil and in what we are told in the text, of Bolton's skinning Stark's or other enemies, although in the text, we only get Ramsay flaying people, and never Roose. Still, pale eyes and flayed carcasses in Sam's story line does have a hint of Bolton foreshadowing.
Ilyn Payne also has pale eyes, and I doubt he is Sam's father. One other connection to pale eyes in the text does stand out to me, and that is that Viserys is noted to have pale lilac eyes. Of course, if GRRM had told us that Sam had lilac or purple eyes, then it would be a huge giveaway that Sam might carry either blood of House Targaryen or House Dayne. (If this argument can work for RLJ and Jon's dark grey but probably purple eyes, then I can use it for this, right?) But I do think it's possible, very tinfoily, but possible, that Sam does carry Targaryen blood, possibly is even the son of Rhaegar.
If so, I lean toward Sam being the son of Rhaegar and Elia, but it's possible that he is Rhaegar's child by a different mother. While I don't personally like the idea of Rhaegar and Lyanna having a child, she is a possibility. In this chapter, we will see that Sam, who is afraid of everything, does not seem at all afraid of Ghost, a huge and fierce direwolf, and Ghost is quite gentle with Sam, even licking his tears and sitting calmly beside him, which could indicate some kind of connection.
I know it would be wild to speculate that Sam is Rhaegar's son, but I think it's possible that Sam is baby Aegon, and that Rhaegar was able to smuggle both his children away from Dragonstone and to safety before Aerys sent for Elia and the children and brought them to Kings Landing as hostages. If Rhaegar was smart, I think he would have protected his children, but at least his son and heir. We see this theme repeated in our story, with Ned trying to get Sansa and Arya out of KL, with Davos smuggling Edric Storm away from Stannis and Mel, with Tommen before the battle of the Blackwater (and even Tyrion didn't know where Tommen was going to be sent). If baby Sam was placed in Horn Hill with Targaryen sympathizer's but almost no one knew he was there, perhaps he was just forgotten by time.
In this chapter, Sam tells us that Randyll tried to make a warrior out of Sam but eventually became discouraged and left him alone. And we get this information from Sam:
Until the dawn of his fifteenth name day, when he had been awakened to find his horse saddled and ready. Three men-at-arms had escorted him into a wood near Horn Hill, where his father was skinning a deer. "You are almost a man grown now, and my heir," Lord Randyll Tarly had told his eldest son, his long knife laying bare the carcass as he spoke. "You have given me no cause to disown you, but neither will I allow you to inherit the land and title that should be Dickon's. Heartsbane must go to a man strong enough to wield her, and you are not worthy to touch her hilt. So I have decided that you shall this day announce that you wish to take the black. You will forsake all claim to your brother's inheritance and start north before evenfall. AGOT-Jon IV
So, Randyll refers to Sam as his heir, not his son, which I think it an important clue. Then we hear that Randyll tells Sam that the land and title he is supposed to inherit belongs to Dickon, and that it is his brother's inheritance. The land, title, inheritance all belong to Dickon, who is younger than Sam, but who is probably Randyl's own seed, while Sam is not. These things seem so clear.
Tying Sam to the Targaryen's is harder, and there is little proof. I use the pale eyes to link to Viserys' pale lilac eyes, even knowing the color descriptor is missing for Sam. The text of the novel's never states what Sam's hair color is, although the wiki says it's dark, and links that back to this chapter, this information does not exist in the books. We are never told what color Sam's hair is. It could be Targaryen white for all we know, or golden, or brown or black or kissed by fire red. It might be dark, as the wiki and the HBO show tells us, but Elia Martell had dark hair and so did young Rhaenys.
Another thing that connects to me is Sam's connection to the moon, his face is round as the moon, pale as the moon, and another character that we get who is connected to the moon, is Daenerys. We also get the idea of the moon in a moon which by Qartheen legend cracked open to pour dragon's onto the world. Dany is Drogo's "moon of my life". Part of my idea is based on thinking that Dany is Rhaegar's child (possibly by Lyanna but more likely by Ashara Dayne). I think Sam is Aegon and Dany is the third head, probably Visenya, that Rhaegar was hoping for. Moon's are connected to the birth of dragon's and dragon's are noted to be Targaryen's of all ages.
Another connection between Sam and Dany is they have both encountered Warlock's from Qarth. Dany in the House of the Undying and in Qarth, and Sam when two warlocks came to Horn Hill and bathed him in the blood of a bull aurochs (I hope this doesn't foreshadow bad things for Grenn). Doesn't it seem odd that two warlock's from Qarth would travel all the way to Horn Hill to spend some time with Samwell Tarly?
Another thing that stands out to me is that Sam tells us he loves music, books, songs, spending time in the kitchens, sleeping with his sister's ( ), he is not a warrior, but we will see in his arc that with the correct encouragement and circumstances, Sam can be trained with bow and arrow and he even manages to kill an Other. We are told that Rhaegar as a child had no interest in swords but only in books, to the extent that he was teased for being Baelor the Blessed come again. Rhaegar only decided he needed to train to be a warrior after reading something in a book. Sam gains knowledge from what he reads in books. These things are loose connections, but still could be possible hints to connect Sam to Rhaegar.
One other little connection in the text is that Sam says his passion was kittens, among other things. Kitten's. Another Targaryen who is noted to have loved kittens was Rhaenys, Rhaegar and Elia's daughter, who is said to have named a black kitten Balerion. A kitten that might have grown up to be a large black cat that still stalks the Red Keep. Kitten's don't get mentioned much in this story, at least in comparison to dogs. Joffrey cut's some kittens out of it's mother's belly and earns a smack from Robert for this cruelty,Tommen is connected to kittens, the sealord of Braavos had a kitten, and Daario treat's Dany's dragons as if they were three kitten's in a corner. This connection to kittens and dragon's stands out to me, but it's really thin ice. Still Rhaenys and Sam both have kitten connections, and kitten's are at time likened to dragon's in this story.
***
Let's look at Jon for a bit. Jon opens this chapter by teaching Dareon how to fight, and we know he has been helping Grenn and Pyp. This is one of those things that reminds me of Arthur Dayne. We hear from Jaime that Arthur taught him fighting technique as well as how to be a knight. Jon takes on the role as leader and protector to the other recruits of the Night's Watch, as well as Sam Tarly when he get's to the wall. This hints to me of the little we know of Arthur Dayne. This could be a hint at Ned as father as well, but Ned actually is never noted to have trained physically in the text or practices swordplay with his sons, and we only see him fight once against Jaime's men in the street. I think of Arthur as a fighter more than I think of Ned as a fighter. Jon is a fighter, he is good, he helps his brother's, and he continues to train to become better all of the time, recognizing the need for practice. This reminds me of SAD.
Jon will tell Halder (and us) that "There's no honor in beating a fallen foe. He yielded." This sounds like a very Ned thing to say, but depending on what we know about the toj and SAD, perhaps, this words might have come out of Ser Arthur Dayne's lips. The only fight we hear of Dayne being in is against the Smiling Knight, and while it could be looked at like Dayne was toying with the Smiling Knight, it is also possible SAD was attempting to give the Smiling Knight a chance to yield, and when this didn't happen after many chances, only then did SAD put an end to the fight. This line could also hint at Robert as the father, as we know that Robert turned a lot of enemies into friends after they yielded or took a knee.
***
Almost two years ago now, I decided to look at the parentage puzzle in this story with a clear eye, and this chapter stood out to be as having hints of Ser Arthur Dayne as Jon's father. One of the things that stood out to me is how Jon, Green and Pyp take a stance together to protect Sam. Not even going to the idea of Sam as a Targaryen heir that needs protecting, we see a mirror of the kingsguard at the tower of joy.
Grenn is called an aurochs, is noted to be large and not perhaps very smart. I am not calling Gerald Hightower stupid, but he is called the White Bull, an animal that is large like an aurochs is large. Then we have Pyp, who is small and noted in this chapter to have ear's like a bat. (I have some Florent tinfoil for Pyp with this comment, also) and who always has something to say and is very entertaining to his brothers, but it really could be a hint at Oswell Whent. The Whent sigil is a bat and Oswell Whent is remembered for his dark humor in Jaime's recollections. If a person thinks of Grenn as Gerald Hightower and Pyp as Oswell Whent, it leads to thinking of Jon as Ser Arthur Dayne.
Now, I am not trying to claim that Grenn or Pyp are the son's of Hightower or Whent, but I do think it's possible that Jon is the son of Arthur Dayne. (It's possible that Jon is only playing a role here that parallel's the toj scene and has nothing to do with parentage) Jon has given up his life and joined the Night's Watch, where as Ser Arthur did the same when he joined the Kingsguard. Both claim the men of their respective choices as brother's. Much of Jon's arc deals with "his father" and temptation and vows. As far as we know, Ned didn't take any vows that would link to this line of thought from Jon, but Arthur did. And he might have been just as tempted and tormented as we see Jon is at times in his own story line.
I know this has been discussed at length on different threads over the years, but this chapter, really hints of Ser Arthur Dayne and Jon to me. A father and son parallel.
***
Jon introduces himself to Sam as Jon Snow, Ned Stark's bastard of Winterfell, and Sam introduces himself as Samwell Tarly, son of Lord Randyll of Horn Hill. How ironic it would be if both of these identities are false, are identities given to infants 15 years ago to protect them from people who wanted to harm them, and if this turns out to be true, then Ser Alliser Thornes words "The mummer's farce has gone on long enough" could really mean Jon and Sam living the false identities they were given.
***
I mentioned earlier that Sam and Ghost's reactions to each other could hint at a Stark connection for Sam, but one thing that makes me not see a north or Stark connection for Sam but one for Jon is this passage.
"Cold?" A hard frost was settling over the castle, and Jon could hear the soft crunch of grey weeds beneath his boots.
Sam nodded miserably. "I hate the cold," he said. "Last night I woke up in the dark and the fire had gone out and I was certain I was going to freeze to death by morning."
"It must have been warmer where you come from."
"I never saw snow until last month. We were crossing the barrowlands, me and the men my father sent to see me north, and this white stuff began to fall, like a soft rain. At first I thought it was so beautiful, like feathers drifting from the sky, but it kept on and on, until I was frozen to the bone. The men had crusts of snow in their beards and more on their shoulders, and still it kept coming. I was afraid it would never end."
Jon smiled. AGOT-Jon IV
Sam nodded miserably. "I hate the cold," he said. "Last night I woke up in the dark and the fire had gone out and I was certain I was going to freeze to death by morning."
"It must have been warmer where you come from."
"I never saw snow until last month. We were crossing the barrowlands, me and the men my father sent to see me north, and this white stuff began to fall, like a soft rain. At first I thought it was so beautiful, like feathers drifting from the sky, but it kept on and on, until I was frozen to the bone. The men had crusts of snow in their beards and more on their shoulders, and still it kept coming. I was afraid it would never end."
Jon smiled. AGOT-Jon IV
Although Jon did complain in the last chapter about feeling cold at the wall, I think that his more of him emotionally missing Winterfell and the "warmth" of home. Here, we have Sam hating the cold, and not enjoying the snow, while all Jon does is smile. This passage really reminds me of Robert complaining about the snow to Ned, and Ned calling the snow's mild. Ned didn't smile at Robert's complaints, but it almost feel like there is an implied smile in Ned's words when responding to Robert's complaints.
Of course, to be fair, Jon was raised in the climate of the north, and Sam was not. We see Ned uncomfortable with the heat of Kings Landing, and Jon might feel the same way. Hard to say if this is a parentage hint or not!
***
I am not certain how close Jon and Sam are age wise. We know that Jon has already turned 15, we were told that in the last chapter but the passage of time is questionable in the story. Sam tells us that he left Horn Hill on his fifteenth name day, (Is this Sam's real nameday, however?) but I am not sure how long it took them to travel from that far south all the way to the wall. Did they rid all the way? Did they seek passage on a ship for some of the journey. I am not honestly sure of which of them might be older, although I would think Sam is. But I used to think Sam was probably a year or so older than Jon, but now I am not sure of that. If Sam and Jon turn out to be twins, I might throw up a little bit.
***
This chapter give us the first information we have about Jon's crypt dreams.
Jon Snow laughed with him. Afterward they sat on the frozen ground, huddled in their cloaks with Ghost between them. Jon told the story of how he and Robb had found the pups newborn in the late summer snows. It seemed a thousand years ago now. Before long he found himself talking of Winterfell.
"Sometimes I dream about it," he said. "I'm walking down this long empty hall. My voice echoes all around, but no one answers, so I walk faster, opening doors, shouting names. I don't even know who I'm looking for. Most nights it's my father, but sometimes it's Robb instead, or my little sister Arya, or my uncle." The thought of Benjen Stark saddened him; his uncle was still missing. The Old Bear had sent out rangers in search of him. Ser Jaremy Rykker had led two sweeps, and Quorin Halfhand had gone forth from the Shadow Tower, but they'd found nothing aside from a few blazes in the trees that his uncle had left to mark his way. In the stony highlands to the northwest, the marks stopped abruptly and all trace of Ben Stark vanished.
"Do you ever find anyone in your dream?" Sam asked.
Jon shook his head. "No one. The castle is always empty." He had never told anyone of the dream, and he did not understand why he was telling Sam now, yet somehow it felt good to talk of it. "Even the ravens are gone from the rookery, and the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It's black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don't want to. I'm afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it's not them I'm afraid of. I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream." He stopped, frowning, embarrassed. "That's when I always wake." His skin cold and clammy, shivering in the darkness of his cell. Ghost would leap up beside him, his warmth as comforting as daybreak. He would go back to sleep with his face pressed into the direwolf's shaggy white fur. AGOT-Jon IV
"Sometimes I dream about it," he said. "I'm walking down this long empty hall. My voice echoes all around, but no one answers, so I walk faster, opening doors, shouting names. I don't even know who I'm looking for. Most nights it's my father, but sometimes it's Robb instead, or my little sister Arya, or my uncle." The thought of Benjen Stark saddened him; his uncle was still missing. The Old Bear had sent out rangers in search of him. Ser Jaremy Rykker had led two sweeps, and Quorin Halfhand had gone forth from the Shadow Tower, but they'd found nothing aside from a few blazes in the trees that his uncle had left to mark his way. In the stony highlands to the northwest, the marks stopped abruptly and all trace of Ben Stark vanished.
"Do you ever find anyone in your dream?" Sam asked.
Jon shook his head. "No one. The castle is always empty." He had never told anyone of the dream, and he did not understand why he was telling Sam now, yet somehow it felt good to talk of it. "Even the ravens are gone from the rookery, and the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It's black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don't want to. I'm afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it's not them I'm afraid of. I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream." He stopped, frowning, embarrassed. "That's when I always wake." His skin cold and clammy, shivering in the darkness of his cell. Ghost would leap up beside him, his warmth as comforting as daybreak. He would go back to sleep with his face pressed into the direwolf's shaggy white fur. AGOT-Jon IV
I am not sure how much of this dream can tell us about Jon's father, but it certainly is prophetic. Jon does talk about looking for several people in his dreams and he refer's to his father (although he never names Ned, so this could indicate Brandon or Rickard, who both lie in the crypts), his brother Robb, his sister Arya and his uncle, who he names as Benjen. Now, are these things Jon is saying based on what he has known his whole life, and perhaps we should take this wording with a grain of salt, or it could be GRRM speaking to us through Jon, which does make Robb his brother, Arya his sister and Benjen his uncle. I can see multiple possibilities, but if his father isn't Ned, then the other two Stark's that lie most recently in the crypts stand out to me as possible fathers of Jon.
Also, Jon tells us that he is not afraid of the crypts, the darkness or the Kings of Winter, but he is afraid of the empty Winterfell and the bones in the stable, as well as what ever seems to be calling him or that is drawing him into the crypts. This is what initially lead to me believing that Dawn was in the crypts. I am not as sure of that as I used to be, but it's still possible, and that would be another connection to Ser Arthur Dayne as Jon's father!
"I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go anyway" On some level Jon doesn't feel like he is a Stark because he is a Snow, but with his Stark like features, he has to have a Stark parent, either mother or father or perhaps both. Now, it's possible that the truth of Jon's parentage is what he is afraid of. It could be finding out that Ned is NOT his father that he fears (which means Lyanna would have to be his Stark parent), that Ned is his father and that Lyanna is his mother, which would make Jon a product of incest, which seems to be considered an abomination by many (although Jon never feels this way about Gilly or her child, which could mean on some level he understands that it's not the child's fault if incest is the case), or it could be a combination of this, with Lyanna as his mother with Brandon or Rickard as his father. What he is searching for might also be Lyanna's grave, but I certainly hope we don't ever find Prince Silverstring's harp or a dragon wedding cloak in the blackness of the crypts. If Lyanna is the mother, possibilities for a father that are not of Stark blood are many: Rhaegar, Arthur, Robert, or Mance.
When Jon asks if Sam dreams of Horn Hill, Sam denies this and states he hates it there. I have always felt like we are missing something. Perhaps Sam does dream of a place that is home, that he doesn't hate. I think if that place was Winterfell, we would get some indication of that. So, if Sam dreams of such a place, and it isn't Winterfell because he isn't a Stark, then where does Sam dream off? Could it have a red door? Again, is this a link to Daenerys as a sibling?
Shout out to something shymaid mentioned in a previous chapter discussion about Ned's crypt dreams always have him waking in darkness, while other dreams have him waking in moonlight. This dream of the crypts has Jon waking in the "darkness of his cell".
***
I also find it interesting that Sam mentions Heartsbane, the Tarly family ancestreal sword, that was meant to be his, but is now Dickon's legacy. We know that Jon has Ice, the Stark family Valyrian steel sword that is to be Robb's legacy after Ned's death. It just seems important that both Jon and Sam grew up with family blades (both Valyrian steel great swords) but Sam lost the blade he thought was to be his along with Horn Hill, and Jon grew up never thinking he would get the blade that was Ned's sword because of his bastard status, even though Jon covet's Ice and Winterfell.
Also, Cat tells us that Ice is 400 years old and Sam tells us that Heartsbane is 500 years old. If these ages are accurate, could that make Ice one of the last blades made in Valyria before the Doom, and could forging Ice have anything to do with what happened to cause the doom? Just a thought I had this time through the chapter.
***
"I saw him eat a pork pie," Toad said, smirking. "Do you think it was a brother?" He began to make oinking noises.
"Stop it!" Jon snapped angrily.
The other boys fell silent, taken aback by his sudden fury. "Listen to me," Jon said into the quiet, and he told them how it was going to be. Pyp backed him, as he'd known he would, but when Halder spoke up, it was a pleasant surprise. Grenn was anxious at the first, but Jon knew the words to move him. One by one the rest fell in line. Jon persuaded some, cajoled some, shamed the others, made threats where threats were required. At the end they had all agreed … all but Rast.
"You girls do as you please," Rast said, "but if Thorne sends me against Lady Piggy, I'm going to slice me off a rasher of bacon." He laughed in Jon's face and left them there.
Hours later, as the castle slept, three of them paid a call on his cell. Grenn held his arms while Pyp sat on his legs. Jon could hear Rast's rapid breathing as Ghost leapt onto his chest. The direwolf's eyes burned red as embers as his teeth nipped lightly at the soft skin of the boy's throat, just enough to draw blood. "Remember, we know where you sleep," Jon said softly.
The next morning Jon heard Rast tell Albett and Toad how his razor had slipped while he shaved. AGOT-Jon IV
"Stop it!" Jon snapped angrily.
The other boys fell silent, taken aback by his sudden fury. "Listen to me," Jon said into the quiet, and he told them how it was going to be. Pyp backed him, as he'd known he would, but when Halder spoke up, it was a pleasant surprise. Grenn was anxious at the first, but Jon knew the words to move him. One by one the rest fell in line. Jon persuaded some, cajoled some, shamed the others, made threats where threats were required. At the end they had all agreed … all but Rast.
"You girls do as you please," Rast said, "but if Thorne sends me against Lady Piggy, I'm going to slice me off a rasher of bacon." He laughed in Jon's face and left them there.
Hours later, as the castle slept, three of them paid a call on his cell. Grenn held his arms while Pyp sat on his legs. Jon could hear Rast's rapid breathing as Ghost leapt onto his chest. The direwolf's eyes burned red as embers as his teeth nipped lightly at the soft skin of the boy's throat, just enough to draw blood. "Remember, we know where you sleep," Jon said softly.
The next morning Jon heard Rast tell Albett and Toad how his razor had slipped while he shaved. AGOT-Jon IV
The first part of this passage, about Jon's sudden fury, reminds me a bit of Robert's furious outbursts. It also reminds me of Ned's "his fury was on him" from Cat's POV, as well as Ned's "red rage". A hint at Ned's temper, or just Stark temper in general. If this is a parentage hint, it could fit Brandon the Wild Wolf!
However, the rest of the passage reminds me of Jaime's story about how Ser Arthur Dayne helped take down the Kingswood Brotherhood, byhelping, cajoling, working with the small folk, working with people in which ever way was necessary to get the job done. Even Jon isn't able to talk all of the trainee's into cooperating and he needs to use Ghost as a weapon to bring Rast to heel.
***
"We're not friends," Jon said. He put a hand on Sam's broad shoulder. "We're brothers."
And so they were, he thought to himself after Sam had taken his leave. Robb and Bran and Rickon were his father's sons, and he loved them still, yet Jon knew that he had never truly been one of them. Catelyn Stark had seen to that. The grey walls of Winterfell might still haunt his dreams, but Castle Black was his life now, and his brothers were Sam and Grenn and Halder and Pyp and the other cast-outs who wore the black of the Night's Watch.
"My uncle spoke truly," he whispered to Ghost. He wondered if he would ever see Benjen Stark again, to tell him. AGOT-Jon IV
And so they were, he thought to himself after Sam had taken his leave. Robb and Bran and Rickon were his father's sons, and he loved them still, yet Jon knew that he had never truly been one of them. Catelyn Stark had seen to that. The grey walls of Winterfell might still haunt his dreams, but Castle Black was his life now, and his brothers were Sam and Grenn and Halder and Pyp and the other cast-outs who wore the black of the Night's Watch.
"My uncle spoke truly," he whispered to Ghost. He wondered if he would ever see Benjen Stark again, to tell him. AGOT-Jon IV
Jon is now thinking of Sam and the Night's Watch members as his brothers, not "his father's sons", which was something that Benjen had told Jon when Benjen talked about Eddard as his brother by blood but not by oath, and how taking your vow's changes you and gives you new brothers. I wonder if either Jon or Benjen really believe that to be true? I don't think we have seen the last of Benjen Stark, and honestly, I find myself curious what his reaction will be if and when he finds out about Ned's death. Will he feel reserved sorrow, or will he feel a certain rage?
We never get a lot of Jon's feelings on Robb's death, or even Bran or Rickon's. I don't know if Jon doesn't care as much as he used to, or if he is protecting himself under that black cloak and not allowing himself to "feel" their deaths. But when he is faced with losing Arya in Dance, it seems like Jon is ready to admit to himself that he is not ready to lose another sibling.
Also, Jon draws a clear line pointing to Catelyn as the reason that he had never been truly a brother to his siblings, but is that true? I am certain Cat did make it clear that Jon was different than her trueborn children, but perhaps the difference does lie in Jon being a cousin to the Stark kids and not a sibling at all?
***
Honestly, there is probably a lot more than can be picked out of the text in this chapter, but I am feeling a bit fried and almost like I am rambling by this time, so I am just going to stop.