Yes, and I'm legitimately curious as to what those outraged viewers took away from her Season 1 arc.
Her entire journey in the first book/first season is her becoming increasingly confident in her role as "Khaleesi," queen of a people who are referenced several times in relation to the sacking and burning of cities, and ultimately culminates in her executing a woman by burning her alive--Aerys' favored method of execution. That all seems to be setting a pretty clear tone for her future.
adding to this, why else would anyone want to have dragons as pets?
Dany has always been somewhat bipolar. She wanted the dragons but then chained them when they frightened her. She freed slaves and grew olive trees but also roasted enemies with ease. She has two armies with opposite methods.
Not that different from a typical absolute ruler.
Dany going 'extreme' in savaging KL may have more to do with spectacular visuals seeking TV ratings than character flaws.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
Yes, and I'm legitimately curious as to what those outraged viewers took away from her Season 1 arc.
Her entire journey in the first book/first season is her becoming increasingly confident in her role as "Khaleesi," queen of a people who are referenced several times in relation to the sacking and burning of cities, and ultimately culminates in her executing a woman by burning her alive--Aerys' favored method of execution. That all seems to be setting a pretty clear tone for her future.
I do, however, agree with criticisms of her characterization within this final stretch; it doesn't read like a progression toward madness, it reads like abrupt emotional instability, and it particularly presents poorly in contrast to Tyrion and Varys suddenly becoming paragons of morality and caution.
Agreed that it was not written as well as it could and should have been for the show, especially this finally push to the end. Honestly, I wonder if they just wanted the shock value again and didn't care about a well hinted at progression. Who know's! And by gosh, if they wanted people talking about their show, then they got their wish. Because good or bad, love it or hate it, people are talking, and I am sure the ratings numbers will be high for the last episode, in spite of the push back from fans.
I think people forget the not so kind Dany at times when we think of the woman who started our story as a frightened and abused youngster who was then able to become magical enough to hatch dragons, strong enough to free slaves, determined enough to topple a way of life in Essos. No doubt, if we get more from GRRM, and if this is his plan, which I would think it is, this will all be played out much better. But it's still going to hurt a lot of fans!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
No doubt, if we get more from GRRM, and if this is his plan, which I would think it is, this will all be played out much better. But it's still going to hurt a lot of fans!
Will it? I have my serious doubts. Actually, IMHO, that´s why Martin is unable to wrap tWoW -> he is trying to find a way for that without having to retcon the entire cycle...the latter part being impossible, of course.
Will it? I have my serious doubts. Actually, IMHO, that´s why Martin is unable to wrap tWoW -> he is trying to find a way for that without having to retcon the entire cycle...the latter part being impossible, of course.
GRRM has managed to give Dany, Jon, Bran and Tyrion some pretty dark arc's. I think it's plausible for any one of them to become the ultimate villain of this story, so Dany might still turn out to be some kind of dark savior. Hell, Jon might not even live (although I honestly doubt he even dies). There is no doubt this story has grown far bigger than GRRM ever intended, but if he can garden his way into a hole, he should be able to garden his way out. It depends on whether he really wants to do that or not!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I liked the interaction between Jaime and Tyrion, it was a nice nod to Jaime releasing Tryion from the dungeon.
These really are some of the most watchable scenes. They violate the moment in the books where Tyrion learns Jaime betrayed him--but they are really, really good to watch, so I have to forgive them.
If only other breaks from the novels were as good.
You know, if my parents called me Khaleesi I would kill them! Fortunately I was born way way too early for that! I just don't get how anyone would do that to their child...
Had a friend whose parents named her Pippin after LOTR. She hated having to explain she wasn't named for Pip in Great Expectations.
So while I see the point made of how she tries to do good, imo she crosses the line. In particular when she burned that Meerenese in front of the others. But she didn't like that, so I guess it's ok then. While I don't lament the deaths, I don't like how she deals with them either. The khals in particular was just sadistic!
This. Granted, first time I read the novels, I yelled at Dany "Stop!!" when she was doing the pyre with MMD. I was horrified from the get go.
But the Dothraki and the Stallion prophecy--they were never benevolent. Always violent. Not sure how this got missed.
I do, however, agree with criticisms of her characterization within this final stretch; it doesn't read like a progression toward madness, it reads like abrupt emotional instability, and it particularly presents poorly in contrast to Tyrion and Varys suddenly becoming paragons of morality and caution.
Yes--these guys can do subtle when they want to. But seemed to chuck it out the window for this season. And last.
Absolutely!!! This has been foreshadowed, and I am rather entertained by how butthurt several youtuber's are about Dany's turn to the fire side! Really, really butthurt! Seriously, I want to send them Kleenex and cookies!
Yes--makes me worried for what people will justify as "acceptable" behavior is Dany's rise. I always thought it was dangerous. Granted, the books are clearer that she's rejecting life and home for fire and ashes, but still . . . Dany has goodness in her--but chooses monstrosity, too.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
I've heard that combined with the theme of Wheel of Time - time resetting every time the sides face off, just to repeat it in the future. I kinda like it.
I'm not that familiar with Martin's other works, but my understanding is that he might go in this direction.
The show has really never addressed the oddness of the long seasons, and so it makes sense they never will. But I do wonder about the books. If it's about magic, then perhaps some "magic" will set the season's right!
The show has just started chucking things off narrative cliffs--the resurrection, the greyscale, the cause of the long night, why the NK came back--just chucked it all.
Am wondering if this is why they are doing the prequel with different writers. D&D wanted out and are fleeing with all due speed and undue cash.
But there's a podacast just out with Bryan Cogman--he has very odd pause when the interviewer asks if everything that Bran has told them is true. Asks if we can trust Bran.
Cogman pauses, laughs, and basically says, "Bran's said what he's said. And that's all I'll say."
Really hoping we aren't getting some creepy "twist."
So far, there doesn't seem to be much about Jon's Targaryen arc in the show that is important to the end game. I guess he rode a dragon, but didn't do much with it. His "claim" has been the cause of Dany's dive further into darkness, based on if she can't be loved, she might as well be feared. But all of this not really making a difference makes me question the truth of it at all. I even wonder if the show might yet have a twist for us in regards to this. Like that the "truth" of Jon's parentage didn't have anything to do with Dany's family, but it was simply used as a ploy to make her step over the crazy line! And Bran would have manipulated all of this into happening.
Yup. So, three options:
1. Jon's being a Targ really aint that important (Black Crow's theory).
2. It is important, but D&D wanted out and so threw the importance off a cliff.
3. He's not a Targ in the books.
No way to know unless we get the books--so, no way to know, I guess.
I don't usually see much that interests me on Facebook comments, but I did see one after this episode, basically saying "why is everyone so upset about the people of King's Landing. These are the same people that cheered for Ned's death and threw rocks at him". And that comment gave me some pause, because I have questioned Bran's roll in all of this. If he knew what would happen, how could he let it happen? Unless he wanted it to happen. If Bran is the great other/night king roll, that makes some sense. But what if this all goes down just because Bran, a child who had the ability to watch his father's death through the weirnet, felt like the people of Kings Landing needed to be punished? And Dany was that punishment!
That the children set Bran up to "cleanse" Westeros with Dany and the NK and then rule with the Collective Consciousness. And that he lied to Dany and Jon, and gave Arya the dagger and all of that to do this.
Some are even saying Jon will figure it out and have to kill Bran.
I'm thinking that's all above D&D's creative paygrade. But, who knows?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
There is no doubt this story has grown far bigger than GRRM ever intended, but if he can garden his way into a hole, he should be able to garden his way out. It depends on whether he really wants to do that or not!
I guess that´s the crucial point to be seen in the years to come.
would be gullible enough to hand over control of the Realm to a greenseer. While Bran is technically human, he is really the collective consciousness of the weirnet, as you pointed out! So now the TREES are ruling Westeros.
That's actually an AMAZING ending. Holy shit!!! (Calling voice !) It won't come across in the show, of course, and everyone will hate it because they don't get it - but I could see GRRM doing something like this. It would in fact fit VERY well with other endings he's written. Damn I think you might have solved it.
Last Edit: May 17, 2019 3:17:11 GMT by Maester Sam
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
“Remake Game of Thrones season eight with competent writers” demands a petition posted to Change.org, following this past weekend’s episode, The Bells, one of the series’ most polarizing episodes to date. The petition has since been signed by more than 500,000 disgruntled fans.
Not sure what to make of this:
- Half a million ++ fans are glutton for punishment??
- shouldn't these busy people be more worried about more pressing issues, eg the increasing interdictions of moon tea north of the wall-to-be?
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
would be gullible enough to hand over control of the Realm to a greenseer. While Bran is technically human, he is really the collective consciousness of the weirnet, as you pointed out! So now the TREES are ruling Westeros.
Yes--when I saw the idea, I thought it actually might work.
I've been wondering for a while if Bran is telling the truth--either because he knows it and wants to deceive, or because he was being deceived by the NK.
No one seems to question Bran or his motives. He tells Tyrion he doesn't want anything. Yet he waits to tell Jon about his parentage, not letting Sansa or Arya in on it, but telling Sam first--what???
It may just be crappy writing--or it may be crappy writing plus strategy.
I'm also thinking of something voice has argued for a while--that Bloodraven really was willing to sacrifice for the realm. I'm wondering if
That's actually an AMAZING ending. Holy shit!!! (Calling voice !) It won't come across in the show, of course, and everyone will hate it because they don't get it - but I could see GRRM doing something like this. It would in fact fit VERY well with other endings he's written. Damn I think you might have solved it.
No bowing, friend! It's not my brainchild. I'm just fleshing out a spoiler I saw. And another thing I saw last season about the possibility that Bran was either lying or deceived.
It could be a fitting ending--would fit with GRRM's hive mind stuff. Even fit with my brainchild on the "Song of Amergin." This would actually be the earth and the people singing as one.
I've no idea if it will happen onscreen--but it could fit.
And, as I said above, if Jon figures it out, might explain the potential spoiler that Jon
Am just realizing this should go in the Season Eight spoilers section. . . now I'll need to cut and pasts. . .
Last Edit: May 17, 2019 4:41:23 GMT by SlyWren: I can't spell.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.