Just wanted to leave a comment before it leaves my mind. The Inn at the Crossroads is truly in the middle of everything. So far it appears to be where the King's party was staying the night before the Arya and Joffrey conflict and it's where Tyrion is taken captive. Plus multiple mentions that I haven't gotten to yet. Awfully close to Harrenhall. So of course that brings us to the obvious question, was this the starting point leading to Lyanna's disappearance???
And a place used by Tywin as a command center.
YUP! It's the crossroads, all right. But is it a center of power anyone can actually hold?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Now I'm going to expand a bit on that scene in the Inn's dining hall. Before attempting to take Tyrion captive, Catelyn addresses three other parties in the room in the passage that follows.
“You in the corner,”she said to an older man she had not noticed until now. “Is that the black bat of Harrenhal I see embroidered on your surcoat, ser?”The man got to his feet. “It is, my lady.”“And is Lady Whent a true and honest friend to my father, Lord Hoster Tully of Riverrun?”“She is,”the man replied stoutly. Ser Rodrik rose quietly and loosened his sword in its scabbard. The dwarf was blinking at them, blank-faced, with puzzlement in his mismatched eyes. “The red stallion was ever a welcome sight in Riverrun,”she said to the trio by the fire. “My father counts Jonos Bracken among his oldest and most loyal bannermen.”The three men-at-arms exchanged uncertain looks. “Our lord is honored by his trust,”one of them said hesitantly. “I envy your father all these fine friends,”Lannister quipped, “but I do not quite see the purpose of this, Lady Stark.”She ignored him, turning to the large party in blue and grey. They were the heart of the matter; there were more than twenty of them. “I know your sigil as well: the twin towers of Frey. How fares your good lord, sers?”Their captain rose. “Lord Walder is well, my lady. He plans to take a new wife on his ninetieth name day, and has asked your lord father to honor the wedding with his presence.”
Maybe it's just a coincidence, but they are a Whent,then the "oldest and most loyal bannermen" (Hightower?) and the last group was "the heart of the matter." (Dayne?)
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Maybe it's just a coincidence, but they are a Whent,then the "oldest and most loyal bannermen" (Hightower?) and the last group was "the heart of the matter." (Dayne?)
“The red stallion was ever a welcome sight in Riverrun,”she said to the trio by the fire. “My father counts Jonos Bracken among his oldest and most loyal bannermen.”The three men-at-arms exchanged uncertain looks. “Our lord is honored by his trust,”one of them said hesitantly.
Another red stallion--is this another echo for @prettypig and kingmonkey to play with?
And, again--seems like a dark echo, if anything. These men aren't really happy to be drafted into "Operation Get Imp!" Not like the men at the tower. Who, may not be happy (they've lost everything, for pity's sake) but they are fighting for honor. . .one way or another.
Huh--maybe the reluctance of Bracken bannerman #2 does work. . .
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Okay, Lady Dyanna, this might not be the kind of echo you are looking for, but:
Quote: This morning the puppeteers were doing the tale of Florian and Jonquil. The fat Dornishwoman was working Florian in his armor made of motley, while the tall girl held Jonquil's strings. "You are no knight," she was saying as the puppet's mouth moved up and down. "I know you. You are Florian the Fool."
"I am, my lady," the other puppet answered, kneeling. "As great a fool as ever lived, and as great a knight as well." The Hedge Knight
Then the description of the Knight of the Laughing Tree: "No one knew," said Meera, "but the mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face." Storm, Bran II
No one can save me but my Florian. Ser Dontos had promised he would help her escape, but not until the night of Joffrey's wedding. The plans had been well laid, her dear devoted knight-turned-fool assured her; there was nothing to do until then but endure, and count the days. Storm, Sansa I
So--Lyanna and Sansa both tied to a knight from the age of heroes, before there were knights. . .
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Okay, Lady Dyanna, this might not be the kind of echo you are looking for, but:
Quote: This morning the puppeteers were doing the tale of Florian and Jonquil. The fat Dornishwoman was working Florian in his armor made of motley, while the tall girl held Jonquil's strings. "You are no knight," she was saying as the puppet's mouth moved up and down. "I know you. You are Florian the Fool."
"I am, my lady," the other puppet answered, kneeling. "As great a fool as ever lived, and as great a knight as well." The Hedge Knight
Then the description of the Knight of the Laughing Tree: "No one knew," said Meera, "but the mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face." Storm, Bran II
No one can save me but my Florian. Ser Dontos had promised he would help her escape, but not until the night of Joffrey's wedding. The plans had been well laid, her dear devoted knight-turned-fool assured her; there was nothing to do until then but endure, and count the days. Storm, Sansa I
So--Lyanna and Sansa both tied to a knight from the age of heroes, before there were knights. . .
It's certainly a piece of the puzzle. You never know for sure what might end up being quite important.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
This is actually the second time in this chapter the Red Stallion of Bracken is mentioned. The first is right after they enter the common room and right before they meet Marillion. Then, when Tyrion's follow up chapter starts they are butchering his horse and he is offered a strip of horse meat covered in blood. (Another type of red horse?) This is right before he goes into his version of the abduction.
And, again--seems like a dark echo, if anything. These men aren't really happy to be drafted into "Operation Get Imp!" Not like the men at the tower. Who, may not be happy (they've lost everything, for pity's sake) but they are fighting for honor. . .one way or another.
Huh--maybe the reluctance of Bracken bannerman #2 does work. . .
Not only is this one dark, I think it's possibly backwards, upside down and flipped in the total opposite direction. This time a Lannister is abducted by a Stark and taken to await judgment in "Winterfell" in the voluntary company of a singer who has been interacting with a couple in disguise whom he is responsible for outing. But then they actually go to the Vale where they are attacked by the mountain clans but prevail against them. What would the reverse of this be?
Another strange tidbit. ::crackpot:: When Tyrion enters the Inn he ordered a roast fowl to eat. When Arya encounters the one eared tomcat, she hears about him stealing a roast quail from Tywin.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Not only is this one dark, I think it's possibly backwards, upside down and flipped in the total opposite direction. This time a Lannister is abducted by a Stark and taken to await judgment in "Winterfell" in the voluntary company of a singer who has been interacting with a couple in disguise whom he is responsible for outing. But then they actually go to the Vale where they are attacked by the mountain clans but prevail against them. What would the reverse of this be?
Oh, boy--something's up here. You're right.
Marillion the bard, once again is the witness--not the perpetrator.
Cat's there without her husband--but invokes the name of her father in calling the bannermen.
Called to bring the wrong lion to trial.
The whole thing goes kerflooey when they are attacked--and the unlikely knight/ hostage saves his abductor.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Not only is this one dark, I think it's possibly backwards, upside down and flipped in the total opposite direction. This time a Lannister is abducted by a Stark and taken to await judgment in "Winterfell" in the voluntary company of a singer who has been interacting with a couple in disguise whom he is responsible for outing. But then they actually go to the Vale where they are attacked by the mountain clans but prevail against them. What would the reverse of this be?
I agree that this is meant as a clue, but not necessarily one of opposites...a change of family names, yes, but not different results. Instead of Lannister insert Stark, and instead of Stark insert Lannister. Instead of Winterfell insert Casterly Rock, and instead of the Vale the kidnappers would go south.
I do think that something like this is the general gist of it. However, I would substitute Kings Landing for Casterly Rock in your summary. I do wonder if more than that might be gleaned from it. Between Catelyn and Tyrion there's a whole lot of description there. It just comes down to figuring out the correct parallels behind it.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Not only is this one dark, I think it's possibly backwards, upside down and flipped in the total opposite direction. This time a Lannister is abducted by a Stark and taken to await judgment in "Winterfell" in the voluntary company of a singer who has been interacting with a couple in disguise whom he is responsible for outing. But then they actually go to the Vale where they are attacked by the mountain clans but prevail against them. What would the reverse of this be?
Oh, boy--something's up here. You're right.
Marillion the bard, once again is the witness--not the perpetrator.
Cat's there without her husband--but invokes the name of her father in calling the bannermen.
Called to bring the wrong lion to trial.
The whole thing goes kerflooey when they are attacked--and the unlikely knight/ hostage saves his abductor.
Something's here and I can't see it yet.
Like Brandon calling for the trial of Rheagar? The wrong Targ? Should he have called for a lion, Tywin?
Yes--this seems possible. The killing of Lady really reads like an echo of a past event--I'm sold on this thread's take on that. And the taking of Tyrion, at the same Inn--really seems like it could be an echo, too.
I was just struck by the World Book passage re: Lyanna's kidnapping. This part that I'd never paid attention to before:
QUOTE: Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon's turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the Riverlands. The World Book: the Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring
Huh???? What's he up to? The narrator points out everywhere he isn't--which would all be reasonable places to be. Drawing a big red circle around Rhaegar's absence. And the journey that "would ultimately lead him back to the Riverlands"--well, where was it supposed to lead to? What/who was he looking for? Or doing?
Cat's journey to King's Landing supposed to be secret--that didn't hold up too well. Though most didn't know. But she had a specific mission--which went sideways when she got to the Inn. Is it the same with Rhaegar?
And the attack of the Vale clans--was there a rescue attempt? Cat is saved by her prisoner. Was there some sort of uneasy truce drawn on the way to wherever they were going?
I agree that this is meant as a clue, but not necessarily one of opposites...a change of family names, yes, but not different results. Instead of Lannister insert Stark, and instead of Stark insert Lannister. Instead of Winterfell insert Casterly Rock, and instead of the Vale the kidnappers would go south.
Yes--this could explain Ned's intense dislike of the Lannisters. Was Tywin trying to set something up? Gain leverage? The Starks end up with the hostages in Game. Did Tywin try to take Lyanna--and she got "liberated" by Rehear and company?
I do think that something like this is the general gist of it. However, I would substitute Kings Landing for Casterly Rock in your summary. I do wonder if more than that might be gleaned from it. Between Catelyn and Tyrion there's a whole lot of description there. It just comes down to figuring out the correct parallels behind it.
Yes--you've brought up Lyanna at King's Landing before. And I didn't listen. But given the parallels between Sansa and Lyanna, the potential dark echo of Dontos (false knight) for a true knight. . . getting Sansa out of a mess for which she might be blamed/scapegoated--hmmm. Am wondering if you're right re: Lyanna. And If Rhaegar and/or Arthur got her out--probably with Whent.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Moving away from the political side, maybe, is my scientific-wild-ass-guess that Rhaegar was in the Riverlands to find the Ghost of High Heart. The same woman who is the 'cotf' friend of Jenny and the mouthpiece for the prince that was promised 'prophecy.'
Workable--I'm guessing this might be echoed in his trips to Summerhall? Or to the Brotherhood's "visit" with her when she makes all of those statements?
All this could make a hypothetical "meeting" at the Inn strictly chance. Rather like Cat's "meeting" with Tyrion. And things go boom?
Rhaegar was gone, but I think he went to Dorne to bring Aegon to safety, and gather support for his coup. He doesn't return until the Rebellion where the text states he returned "from the south".
Do you mean R and Co. didn't run into Lyanna at all and the "fell on her" idea is pure propaganda?
I do think that R was VERY likely coming north to King's Landing from somewhere other/further south than the tower. But if he was going to move Aegon to safety, any reason he wouldn't take everyone from Dragonstone?
Am trying to think of an echo for this--moving only part of the family. . . Ned's plan to send the girls hime by ship?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Workable--I'm guessing this might be echoed in his trips to Summerhall? Or to the Brotherhood's "visit" with her when she makes all of those statements?
All this could make a hypothetical "meeting" at the Inn strictly chance. Rather like Cat's "meeting" with Tyrion. And things go boom?
A Brotherhood echo, yes. And a replay on the PTWP info. It's all jumbled in my head with Arya and her travels as a hostage with the Brotherhood and then Clegane. She is not in danger by these men who promise to deliver her to family, but she never makes it home.
Oh--yes. And that echoes Sansa's statement to Littlfinger--"you promised to take me home"--when he instead takes her to the Eyrie and has her color her hair and change her name. I've been wondering if Lyanna had similar conversations with her protector/jailers. Who have their own agenda--like the Brotherhood.
Odd echo in my head (is that a dangerous thing to admit??) or just free-association--the traveller who never gets home: Dany has been told her whole life the Iron Throne is home. Rhaegar has been engaged in prophecy and spending time at Summerhall--after Lyanna's disappearance, does he ever get "home" to Dragonstone? Will Dany ever find "home?" Martin is rather one of this particular theme.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Cat's there without her husband--but invokes the name of her father in calling the bannermen.
She is also in hiding and Marillion outs her. Was Rhaegar in hiding the first time around? And who did the Lannisters actually want? Lyanna or Rhaegar? Did they take Lyanna and Rhaegar chose to go along, or did they really want Rhaegar and Lyanna joined them? Arya poses as a boy and Sansa as a bastard.
The whole thing goes kerflooey when they are attacked--and the unlikely knight/ hostage saves his abductor.
I find it interesting that the Bracken and Whent men go with them but not the Freys. Did Dayne hold back to come to the rescue? I don't think that the original captors won this attack. I'm thinking that this is where they might have won free of the Lannisters. The black cat stole the quail right out of Tywin's hands.
Huh???? What's he up to? The narrator points out everywhere he isn't--which would all be reasonable places to be. Drawing a big red circle around Rhaegar's absence. And the journey that "would ultimately lead him back to the Riverlands"--well, where was it supposed to lead to? What/who was he looking for? Or doing?
My guess would be something that he didn't want made public.
Cat's journey to King's Landing supposed to be secret--that didn't hold up too well. Though most didn't know. But she had a specific mission--which went sideways when she got to the Inn. Is it the same with Rhaegar?
And the attack of the Vale clans--was there a rescue attempt? Cat is saved by her prisoner. Was there some sort of uneasy truce drawn on the way to wherever they were going?
I'm pretty sure that it allowed them to escape, but I could be way off.
Yes--this could explain Ned's intense dislike of the Lannisters. Was Tywin trying to set something up? Gain leverage? The Starks end up with the hostages in Game. Did Tywin try to take Lyanna--and she got "liberated" by Rehear and company?
Or he took Rhaegar and Lyanna tagged along? I'm liking that less the more that I think on it though.
Yes--you've brought up Lyanna at King's Landing before. And I didn't listen. But given the parallels between Sansa and Lyanna, the potential dark echo of Dontos (false knight) for a true knight. . . getting Sansa out of a mess for which she might be blamed/scapegoated--hmmm. Am wondering if you're right re: Lyanna. And If Rhaegar and/or Arthur got her out--probably with Whent.
This time I'm just thinking it was a feint from her captors, just like Catelyn does with Winterfell.
Moving away from the political side, maybe, is my scientific-wild-ass-guess that Rhaegar was in the Riverlands to find the Ghost of High Heart. The same woman who is the 'cotf' friend of Jenny and the mouthpiece for the prince that was promised 'prophecy.'
Rhaegar was gone, but I think he went to Dorne to bring Aegon to safety, and gather support for his coup. He doesn't return until the Rebellion where the text states he returned "from the south".
Possibly. Right now I'm leaning towards him being there to be a witness to events but not accountable. Just like Marillion.
A Brotherhood echo, yes. And a replay on the PTWP info. It's all jumbled in my head with Arya and her travels as a hostage with the Brotherhood and then Clegane. She is not in danger by these men who promise to deliver her to family, but she never makes it home.
I like this. Sounds like an interesting avenue to explore!
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Oh--yes. And that echoes Sansa's statement to Littlfinger--"you promised to take me home"--when he instead takes her to the Eyrie and has her color her hair and change her name. I've been wondering if Lyanna had similar conversations with her protector/jailers. Who have their own agenda--like the Brotherhood.
Even if part of the agenda might just be to keep her safe. I'm also wondering, all of these echoes of the wrong person taking the blame. Does it begin to make a case for Lyanna NOT being the KotLT? At this point, to me, if it was a Stark, it would seem to point to either Ned or Benjen. The only two to survive.
ALSO, I think that there's something up in Arya's next chapter as well. I just can't quite grasp it yet.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Even if part of the agenda might just be to keep her safe. I'm also wondering, all of these echoes of the wrong person taking the blame. Does it begin to make a case for Lyanna NOT being the KotLT? At this point, to me, if it was a Stark, it would seem to point to either Ned or Benjen. The only two to survive.