The third choice is not from Winds of Winter, but is more of the fake history that I've been doing. Many of you have had me sign the World of Ice and Fire this weekend, which is the big book of fake history that we put out, myself and Linda Antonsen and Elio Garcia.
That was an interesting story, that book. You know, we contracted for it some time ago and it was heavily illustrated with art and all that. And yet it was there and Linda would go through all the books and pull out all the history that I had already incorporated into the novel and organize that. I would polish it and flesh it out and I would fill in some holes whenever there were things that I hadn't really covered. And then I would write a few sidebars because I knew, I knew a lot of the history that I had never put in the novels, but I - it kind of existed, at least in my mind and some cases in my notes, here.
And we wanted [it] to be heavy-illustrated coffee table books, so...so...with art on every page so that the contract had me quote for fifty thousand words of text, and the rest would be filled up with art and all that.
So Elio and Linda had first crack at it and they went through the books and pulled out everything I could say and organized it and delivered me seventy thousand words. And I kind of filled in the holes, and I started writing the sidebars, and I wrote three hundred and fifty thousand words of sidebars. So the next thing we had to do was take out all the sidebars... and cut down the text too. Because otherwise, we wouldn't have had art on every page. We would have had our, you know, a little piece of art every three pages.
But I didn't throw away the sidebars of course, I kept them, and I have a new book in mind...that I will write in my scopious spare time for read...for readers who actually seem to like fake history. It's going to be a history of all the kings of Westeros from Aegon's Conquest to the present day.
The chunk I brought with me here is about Aegon's - the reigns of Aegon's two sons... "The Sons of the Dragon." I read this one once before at the San Antonio World Con.
I enjoyed this peek into the process. Much of it is stuff we've heard before, but some is new. It sounds as if GRRM opted to take out the bulk of his sidebar contributions in order to use them in an upcoming book. And, that sounds as if the WB is basically a polishing of what Elio and Linda gave him. I find that an interesting distinction, and wonder if the new book of fake history will not be written with Yandel, Elio, or Linda.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
The third choice is not from Winds of Winter, but is more of the fake history that I've been doing. Many of you have had me sign the World of Ice and Fire this weekend, which is the big book of fake history that we put out, myself and Linda Antonsen and Elio Garcia.
That was an interesting story, that book. You know, we contracted for it some time ago and it was heavily illustrated with art and all that. And yet it was there and Linda would go through all the books and pull out all the history that I had already incorporated into the novel and organize that. I would polish it and flesh it out and I would fill in some holes whenever there were things that I hadn't really covered. And then I would write a few sidebars because I knew, I knew a lot of the history that I had never put in the novels, but I - it kind of existed, at least in my mind and some cases in my notes, here.
And we wanted [it] to be heavy-illustrated coffee table books, so...so...with art on every page so that the contract had me quote for fifty thousand words of text, and the rest would be filled up with art and all that.
So Elio and Linda had first crack at it and they went through the books and pulled out everything I could say and organized it and delivered me seventy thousand words. And I kind of filled in the holes, and I started writing the sidebars, and I wrote three hundred and fifty thousand words of sidebars. So the next thing we had to do was take out all the sidebars... and cut down the text too. Because otherwise, we wouldn't have had art on every page. We would have had our, you know, a little piece of art every three pages.
But I didn't throw away the sidebars of course, I kept them, and I have a new book in mind...that I will write in my scopious spare time for read...for readers who actually seem to like fake history. It's going to be a history of all the kings of Westeros from Aegon's Conquest to the present day.
The chunk I brought with me here is about Aegon's - the reigns of Aegon's two sons... "The Sons of the Dragon." I read this one once before at the San Antonio World Con.
I enjoyed this peek into the process. Much of it is stuff we've heard before, but some is new. It sounds as if GRRM opted to take out the bulk of his sidebar contributions in order to use them in an upcoming book. And, that sounds as if the WB is basically a polishing of what Elio and Linda gave him. I find that an interesting distinction, and wonder if the new book of fake history will not be written with Yandel, Elio, or Linda.
Confirms that RaLinda wrote part of aDwD and will wrap aSoIaF for GRRM.
The World of Ice and Fire is subject to the same faulty narration as The Princess and the Queen, a point driven home by the Rogue Prince. In this sense, it is canon insofar as this is the in world account of history. However, as GRRM said, it was compiled by maesters and septons based on accounts from characters who have their own agendas and allegiances.
The World of Ice and Fire is subject to the same faulty narration as The Princess and the Queen, a point driven home by the Rogue Prince. In this sense, it is canon insofar as this is the in world account of history. However, as GRRM said, it was compiled by maesters and septons based on accounts from characters who have their own agendas and allegiances.
Which is a really convenient justification to put together some half-assed product (pics the good half) to make some additional cash.
The World of Ice and Fire is subject to the same faulty narration as The Princess and the Queen, a point driven home by the Rogue Prince. In this sense, it is canon insofar as this is the in world account of history. However, as GRRM said, it was compiled by maesters and septons based on accounts from characters who have their own agendas and allegiances.
Which is a really convenient justification to put together some half-assed product (pics the good half) to make some additional cash.
Not at all. This means the stories would not just be incorrect, but skewed to a certain side. We see in the Princess and the Queen as well as the Rogue Prince that it is intentional.
Not at all. This means the stories would not just be incorrect, but skewed to a certain side. We see in the Princess and the Queen as well as the Rogue Prince that it is intentional.
Still, this is GRRM. Might he be using Elio and Linda as tools?
I think yes.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Hmm... what are they if not tools? (I almost typed trolls on accident)
I think they are considered "maesters" themselves, and hence they have an excuse for their own biases. Who really cares, though. That book was fucking great, even if its only semi canon. (I confess, I didn't pay for it. But its release got me a spot in a private torrent tracker that took years for me to get into)
Hmm... what are they if not tools? (I almost typed trolls on accident)
I think they are considered "maesters" themselves, and hence they have an excuse for their own biases. Who really cares, though. That book was fucking great, even if its only semi canon. (I confess, I didn't pay for it. But its release got me a spot in a private torrent tracker that took years for me to get into)
Should I assume my invite to said tracker is in the mail? Lol (But we did just kinda hook you up with a few great sources for recaps from people who attended the con)
But yes regarding the WB, this SSM gave me a newfound appreciation for it, and for Elio and Linda. I think they are precisely who GRRM is referring to when he mentions the "maesters" who wrote it.
I think the term "semi-canon" is good because it gives them their due respect, yet distinguishes the canonical work of the author from collaborative work of grad students. Nothing trumps the novels.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Post by regular jon umber on May 31, 2016 6:55:00 GMT
"So Elio and Linda had first crack at it and they went through the books and pulled out everything I could say and organized it and delivered me seventy thousand words. And I kind of filled in the holes, and I started writing the sidebars, and I wrote three hundred and fifty thousand words of sidebars. "
That clearly tells us that E&L just took what was already in AsoiaF and organised it, with GRRM filling in gaps. E&L did not add any of their own creation to it.
"So Elio and Linda had first crack at it and they went through the books and pulled out everything I could say and organized it and delivered me seventy thousand words. And I kind of filled in the holes, and I started writing the sidebars, and I wrote three hundred and fifty thousand words of sidebars. "
That clearly tells us that E&L just took what was already in AsoiaF and organised it, with GRRM filling in gaps. E&L did not add any of their own creation to it.
Except they are listed as co-authors.
While it is true that GRRM said they compiled data from the books, he does not say that is all that they did. They and he have both said otherwise already. And it is quite obvious that the World Book contains much and more that is not included in the novels.
And, there is already a thread at the W detailing errors that crept in to the World Book... ("Errors"....that just so happen to be shared by the wiki they administer)
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
I could have sworn it was also based on that MUSH thing they play. IDK. Yes they are coauthors, that's what I meant by "considered maesters". They compile, they synthesize. I think Gildayne is Elio or something.
I could have sworn it was also based on that MUSH thing they play. IDK. Yes they are coauthors, that's what I meant by "considered maesters". They compile, they synthesize. I think Gildayne is Elio or something.
Yup. I only wish the parts written by GRRM were clearly labeled as being written by GRRM. Errors and omissions have crept in not only from the fictional maesters, but from the Mush of the real-life co-authors.
I could have sworn it was also based on that MUSH thing they play. IDK. Yes they are coauthors, that's what I meant by "considered maesters". They compile, they synthesize. I think Gildayne is Elio or something.
Yup. I only wish the parts written by GRRM were clearly labeled as being written by GRRM. Errors and omissions have crept in not only from the fictional maesters, but from the Mush of the real-life co-authors.
When Fire and Blood comes out you'll read his stuff