But am wondering re: the winged helm and the black armor: any chance they are counterfeits? Like Stannis' Lightbringer? References to an older, real armor?
I keep forgetting to mention. Mance has a winged helm.
I was also thinking of Mance's helm. Made of bronze and iron like the crown of the Starks. Wonder if there is a connection...
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
So how would this work with the wws? Seeing as there were 6 now five that we've seen?
Hmm. I'm not sure. The ww using a similar technique was Maester Sam 's suggestion. It does have a certain logic to it. I would imagine that instead of a special suit of armor, however, the greenseers would use a temporary body used to house a soul. It almost seems to me that the physical form of the ww can dissipate into the environment, be carried on the wind, or possibly become the wind, with the ability to reform itself as convenient/needed.
Yeah, I was applying the concept to the ww's, not to Rhaegar's armor. As Stannis and Black Crow like to remind us, they are demons of cold and snow and ice- the controller (Greenseer, most likely, or someone with similar abilities) has to hold it all together and animate it. Somehow, obsidian disrupts this process, breaking the spell that was holding it together.. The reason I think the Marvel concept of the suit supports this idea (which wolfmaid has been championing for a long time) is that it suggests it is possible to warg inanimate objects and thereby animate them temporarily. If it can be done with armor, why not with ice?
Of course, if this is true, then it means white walkers can't be killed. You can destroy an animated ice-body, but the warg behind it can simply create a new one.
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
Well, from what BB said, it sounded like the soul is transferred from the body and into the armor in order to control it. I keep forgetting to mention. Mance has a winged helm.
I was also thinking of Mance's helm. Made of bronze and iron like the crown of the Starks. Wonder if there is a connection...
I thought about that, as well as Mance's damned precious cloak.
In depiction, though I don't remember if it's canon, Lord Sexy Bloodraven has a winged helm. (This is my 'Farrah Fawcett' poster):
So we have the legend of the winged knight/falcon knight. The winged wolf. Mance with his raven helm. Jason Mallister has eagle wings on his helm. Oswell Whent with his bat on his helm. Some Vale knights where helms with falcon wings. Bluetooth, the iron born captain, has a helm with raven wings. And Barristan ends up with a helm with dragon wings.
So, seems to fit the celtic model better than the greek, maybe?
I was also thinking of Mance's helm. Made of bronze and iron like the crown of the Starks. Wonder if there is a connection...
Given the winged knight and the winged wolf--and that many helms with wings--seems like something's up.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
So we have the legend of the winged knight/falcon knight. The winged wolf. Mance with his raven helm. Jason Mallister has eagle wings on his helm. Oswell Whent with his bat on his helm. Some Vale knights where helms with falcon wings. Bluetooth, the iron born captain, has a helm with raven wings. And Barristan ends up with a helm with dragon wings.
So, seems to fit the celtic model better than the greek, maybe?
I was also thinking of Mance's helm. Made of bronze and iron like the crown of the Starks. Wonder if there is a connection...
Given the winged knight and the winged wolf--and that many helms with wings--seems like something's up.
Well, Westeros has borrowed a lot from Celtic myths, culture, the Irish coastline, names, and gods.
Bryn - means "hill" or "mound" in Welsh Arthur - obvious Gwyneth - meaning "white, fair, blessed" Bran - means "raven" in Welsh Steffan - Welsh form of Stephen
So we have the legend of the winged knight/falcon knight. The winged wolf. Mance with his raven helm. Jason Mallister has eagle wings on his helm. Oswell Whent with his bat on his helm. Some Vale knights where helms with falcon wings. Bluetooth, the iron born captain, has a helm with raven wings. And Barristan ends up with a helm with dragon wings.
So, seems to fit the celtic model better than the greek, maybe?
Given the winged knight and the winged wolf--and that many helms with wings--seems like something's up.
Well, Westeros has borrowed a lot from Celtic myths, culture, the Irish coastline, names, and gods.
Bryn - means "hill" or "mound" in Welsh Arthur - obvious Gwyneth - meaning "white, fair, blessed" Bran - means "raven" in Welsh Steffan - Welsh form of Stephen
Those are the ones that just come to mind.
Yep!!!
And with all of those echoes of the winged helms--makes me think the idea of the winged knight and winged wolf really might be tied together.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Well, Westeros has borrowed a lot from Celtic myths, culture, the Irish coastline, names, and gods.
Bryn - means "hill" or "mound" in Welsh Arthur - obvious Gwyneth - meaning "white, fair, blessed" Bran - means "raven" in Welsh Steffan - Welsh form of Stephen
Those are the ones that just come to mind.
For sure. Bran the Blessed's head and its guardian crows at the Tower of London are intruiging, and the Celts being inspired by ravens in battle.
So then, assuming for the moment that Rhaegar is indeed Ned-dead, I wonder if he was under the mistaken impression that this was soopar-speshul magic protective armor and he couldn't be killed, but in reality it was a fake and he paid for that with his life? Recall that he seemed pretty confident in his convo with Jaime that he was coming back from the Trident.... Perhaps he had his own "Mel" in the background screwing with his expectations and totally misleading him about his "Lightbringer"?
Okay--if your brain has already gone here, I apologize for dragging it back to old territory.
But we've been talking about Mance's raven helm. What about his black and red cloak? He never says why he has that particular helm (if I remember correctly). We do have the backstory on the cloak. But.. . . did he connect it to the raven helm? Qhorin tells Jon Mance loved wildling music. And we know Mance emulates the contents of the Bael Tale.
So--to go way out on a limb--has Mance heard something about a winged-helmed, red and black hero?
And, to go even further out on a limb--the speculation that the AA myth is a game of telephone from the real last hero and the real sword of heroes. What if the Targ black and red and Rhaegar's armor come from a garbled story, too? So, the red and black aren't "Targ" colors. But the Targs copied the story. Like Mel "copies" Lightbringer.
If I go any farther, I will crash to my doom.
Last Edit: Jan 10, 2016 20:37:45 GMT by SlyWren: spelling
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
So then, assuming for the moment that Rhaegar is indeed Ned-dead, I wonder if he was under the mistaken impression that this was soopar-speshul magic protective armor and he couldn't be killed, but in reality it was a fake and he paid for that with his life? Recall that he seemed pretty confident in his convo with Jaime that he was coming back from the Trident.... Perhaps he had his own "Mel" in the background screwing with his expectations and totally misleading him about his "Lightbringer"?
Okay--if your brain has already gone here, I apologize for dragging it back to old territory.
But we've been talking about Mance's raven helm. What about his black and red cloak? He never says why he has that particular helm (if I remember correctly). We do have the backstory on the cloak. But.. . . did he connect it to the raven helm? Qhorin tells Jon Mance loved wildling music. And we know Mance emulates the contents of the Bael Tale.
So--to go way out on a limb--has Mance heard something about a winged-helmed, red and black hero?
And, to go even further out on a limb--the speculation that the AA myth is a game of telephone from the real last hero and the real sword of heroes. What if the Targ black and red and Rhaegar's armor come from a garbled story, too? So, the red and black aren't "Targ" colors. But the Targs copied the story. Like Mel "copies" Lightbringer.
If I go any farther, I will crash to my doom.
You could be on to something here.
"The black wool cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch," said the King-beyond-the-Wall. "One day on a ranging we brought down a fine big elk. We were skinning it when the smell of blood drew a shadow-cat out of its lair. I drove it off, but not before it shredded my cloak to ribbons. Do you see? Here, here, and here?" He chuckled. "It shredded my arm and back as well, and I bled worse than the elk. My brothers feared I might die before they got me back to Maester Mullin at the Shadow Tower, so they carried me to a wildling village where we knew an old wisewoman did some healing. She was dead, as it happened, but her daughter saw to me. Cleaned my wounds, sewed me up, and fed me porridge and potions until I was strong enough to ride again. And she sewed up the rents in my cloak as well, with some scarlet silk from Asshai that her grandmother had pulled from the wreck of a cog washed up on the Frozen Shore. It was the greatest treasure she had, and her gift to me." He swept the cloak back over his shoulders. "But at the Shadow Tower, I was given a new wool cloak from stores, black and black, and trimmed with black, to go with my black breeches and black boots, my black doublet and black mail. The new cloak had no frays nor rips nor tears . . . and most of all, no red. The men of the Night's Watch dressed in black, Ser Denys Mallister reminded me sternly, as if I had forgotten. My old cloak was fit for burning now, he said.
Perhaps that silk wasn't the only thing that could have survived there could have been scrolls or perhaps even people who survived the crash. The Azor Ahai legends seem to come from Asshai. So perhaps Mance is attempting to replicate that myth like he obviously does with Bael the Bard. Also note the bit about burning at the end and we all know how much the followers of Rh'llor love their fire.
However while using asearchoficeandfire.com/ I found a most curious line that I missed in my first read.
Gilly thought about that. "Dalla brought him forth during battle, as the swords sang all around her. That should be his name. Aemon Battleborn. Aemon Steelsong."
A name even my lord father might like. A warrior's name. The boy was Mance Rayder's son and Craster's grandson, after all. He had none of Sam's craven blood. "Yes. Call him that."
Wait what? Mance's son and Craster's grandson? That implies that Mance is Craster's son, or Dalla is his daughter. We know that Mance was rescued by brothers of the Night's Watch. Could Mance have been one of Craster's sons that was rescued by the Night's Watch just like Gilly's son was?
There are plenty of parallels to Mance and Rhaegar so much so that some people still think he is alive. Its pretty tinfoil but the Targ connections are certainly there. I however have another idea. Mance could be Bloodraven's grandson via Craster. Aemon and Bloodraven were sent to the Wall in 233 AC. Bloodraven rose to Lord Commander in 239 AC and disappeared from the Wall in 252 AC. Craster is the bastard son of a man of the Night's Watch and a wildling woman from the village of Whitetree. His father abandoned his mother after Craster was conceived, and when his mother tried to bring him to Castle Black, she was chased off by members of the Watch. His father's name is never mentioned. Could this father be Bloodraven?
Another interesting thing to note about Craster is that he has 19 wives, the same number as the number of castles that cover the Wall. Coincidence I think not.
Craster gets really pissed at being called a bastard, which would ironic since he could be a bastard's bastard.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
That is the best picture of Bloodraven I've ever seen.
It's pretty badass. Dark Sister is even intimidating. If you can get in close, he has red eyes...and though I may be biased, I think it demonstrates that even 'ugly' Targs are beautiful.
Wait what? Mance's son and Craster's grandson? That implies that Mance is Craster's son, or Dalla is his daughter. We know that Mance was rescued by brothers of the Night's Watch. Could Mance have been one of Craster's sons that was rescued by the Night's Watch just like Gilly's son was?
There are plenty of parallels to Mance and Rhaegar so much so that some people still think he is alive. Its pretty tinfoil but the Targ connections are certainly there. I however have another idea. Mance could be Bloodraven's grandson via Craster. Aemon and Bloodraven were sent to the Wall in 233 AC. Bloodraven rose to Lord Commander in 239 AC and disappeared from the Wall in 252 AC. Craster is the bastard son of a man of the Night's Watch and a wildling woman from the village of Whitetree. His father abandoned his mother after Craster was conceived, and when his mother tried to bring him to Castle Black, she was chased off by members of the Watch. His father's name is never mentioned. Could this father be Bloodraven?
Another interesting thing to note about Craster is that he has 19 wives, the same number as the number of castles that cover the Wall. Coincidence I think not.
Craster gets really pissed at being called a bastard, which would ironic since he could be a bastard's bastard.
Jamoley, my eyes flew right past that when I read the books. That's crazy. I just posted over on the crackpot thread last night that I hoped the woman in the pool at Winterfell that Bran 'saw', the one that wanted a son to avenge her, would be Mance's mother...That she got south of the Wall and was captured like Osha (who also dipped in the pool) and brought to Winterfell, escaped, and brought her son back to the Wall. That would be interesting if she wanted a son to avenge her of the man that gave away her sons. And when she escaped with child, he took up the hobby of raping her daughters for sacrificial boys
Perhaps that silk wasn't the only thing that could have survived there could have been scrolls or perhaps even people who survived the crash. The Azor Ahai legends seem to come from Asshai. So perhaps Mance is attempting to replicate that myth like he obviously does with Bael the Bard. Also note the bit about burning at the end and we all know how much the followers of Rh'llor love their fire.
Very possible.
But I was also thinking it might go the other way: the hero in black ice armor with the red blade in his fist was the original hero/leader in the Battle for the Dawn. And the story got around the Planet Martin. And mixed in with other stories/myths. But Mance, north of the Wall, hearing all those songs--he's got traces of the original legends in his wardrobe.
And I cannot for the life of me figure how I could prove that. But I will say that the red and black armor, if tied to his cape--it's north of the Wall. Same with the helm. So, would suggest there's at least a chance it originate there (as well as a chance it didn't).
There are plenty of parallels to Mance and Rhaegar so much so that some people still think he is alive. Its pretty tinfoil but the Targ connections are certainly there. I however have another idea. Mance could be Bloodraven's grandson via Craster. Aemon and Bloodraven were sent to the Wall in 233 AC. Bloodraven rose to Lord Commander in 239 AC and disappeared from the Wall in 252 AC. Craster is the bastard son of a man of the Night's Watch and a wildling woman from the village of Whitetree. His father abandoned his mother after Craster was conceived, and when his mother tried to bring him to Castle Black, she was chased off by members of the Watch. His father's name is never mentioned. Could this father be Bloodraven?
I'm not good with the timelines. But timeline-wise, this seems possible.\
For my money, I don't see many parallels between Rhaegar and Mance save the singing. And, if Theon's to be believed, Mance doesn't sing as well as Rhaegar was reported to. And Mance is "more pander than singer"--his singing, like Bael's, is more about setting up a mark.
Mance seems more like a surrogate father that Jon then has to betray. Practically a John le Carre novel. Which would make the Others Cold War Russians. . . . not sure that works. . .
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Guuuhhhhh..... This piece is taking FOREVER to lay out! So much for a quick and dirty side project.
I mentioned upthread that I wanted to return to what is basically an entire year of a 1960s Thor arc, as it is pertinent to the Black Armor/Destroyer. I have that just about finished up, but a good chunk of the first section was going to be character intro. While getting that in order, I got so wrapped up in one particular character that I thought it might be better to just break that out separately so as not to disrupt the flow of the rest, since it's pretty long.
First, let me reiterate that for the purpose of this segment, Thor = Rhaegar. I've got something coming later that will link Rhaegar up with someone else too in a pretty big way, but for now, he's Thor. Interestingly, in terms of backstory and plot arc, Thor also shares many parallels with Daenerys…which isn’t really surprising if you think of Dany as being Rhaegar’s daughter, a reincarnated Rhaegar, assuming the mantle of Last Dragon, etc.
Thor's not the person I want to talk about though, so let's move on to:
Sif, Shield Maiden of Asgard (Journey into Mystery #102 March, 1964) Lady Sif, Stunning Sif, Fairest of the Fair, Dark-Haired Daughter of Asgard. Sif is an Asgardian warrior princess of reknowned beauty. Though an Asgardian like Thor and Odin, she traces her lineage through the line of the Vanir, a different line than the Aesir from which Odin and Thor originate. (The two races were once at war but united through marriage long ago - the modern race of Asgardians are a blend of the Aesir/Vanir.) Sif’s brother Heimdall is the sentinel of the bridge Bifrost (aka Rainbow Bridge).
Sif and Thor were childhood friends, even playing with Loki. As a young girl Sif’s hair was the ‘Asgardian blonde’, but one night Loki cut off all of Sif’s long golden locks. A pissed-off Thor told Loki to fix it, so he had trolls craft Sif some magical hair – the hair was supposed to be golden like before, but Loki cheaped out and didn’t want to pay for it, so the trolls crafted Sif’s new hair from the blackness of the night instead…the strands grew long and dark and remained dark henceforth.
(Note: In case it isn’t apparent, I interpret all this to be basically the Daynes and the Valyrians sharing a common origin, with Ashara having the purple eyes of her Valyrian ancestors but not the blonde hair. Needless to say I’m pretty sure the ASOIAF Loki counterpart had nothing to do with that.)
Thor actually found Sif even MOAR attractive with the dark hair, and the two fell in love. However, the relationship was interrupted when Thor was banished to the Earth-realm by Odin and had his love affair with mortal Jane Foster. Thor and Sif go back and forth with their doomed relationship for a time, with end result being that they lurrrve each other but can’t be together for various reasons….one being that Sif dislikes Earth and wants to remain in magical Asgard.
(Siffy is going to play a big part in the upcoming plot synopsis, but also aids Thor in a future battle/Modern Arc with the demonic God of Flame Surtur, which is a pretty big deal in the Marvelverse. This war involves quite a few of the Avengers and goes into the disastrous opening of the Casket of Ancient Winters, which is most awesome but will not be covered in this segment.)
Now, I want to talk a bit more about Sif correlating to Ashara Dayne. First, we have the two distinct bloodlines comingling into one, which is relevant if you buy into any Dayne/First Men = ProtoValyrian/Shared Valyrian ancestor theory. Then, there are examples of Targaryen/Dayne marriage throughout history – I’m admittedly fuzzy on whether or not such relations filtered down the the current members of House Dayne, but it’s possible that there is further blended dragon blood there. *I* feel that is plausible/likely, hence my support of the idea that Ashara and Rhaegar have common lineage somewhere up the tree.
Next, playing off the childhood friendship of Sif and Thor – we don’t know how long Arthur Dayne was in service to the Crown, but as “Rhaegar’s oldest and closest friend”, I think there’s a good chance that they had known each other for a while. We also don’t know Ashara’s age, but I’d guesstimate that at the time of the tourney she was between 16-25, just like the rest of the Westerosi Brat Pack. My other guess is that Arthur is 5-10 years older, meaning that when Arthur entered service, Ashara was still a young child…and more than likely she and Rhaegar were acquainted before she ever came to court with Elia. Hell, for all we know, Rhaegar himself could have been the one that insisted on Ashara as a handmaiden to his new wife - wouldn’t be the first time in history someone has strategically placed a paramour in a coveted house position in order to be close…and it wouldn’t be first time in the story, either. Looking at you, Tyrion & Shae.
Speaking of big brothers, let’s talk about Heimdall, Sif’s sibling – (Journey Into Mystery #85 1962) “The Norse God of Vigilance, Protection and Light” and guardian of the Bifrost bridge into Asgard. Heimdall is an extraordinary warrior and ally/friend to Thor, and his natural gifts of advanced sight/hearing/perception made him the ideal guardian.
Minor related excerpt from the Marvel Universe Wiki: “When Asgard was invaded by the fire demon Surtur [who as I said above is going to be a big major deal later in my Marvelous coverage], Heimdall attempted to defend the gates, but was overcome, and the Rainbow Bridge was destroyed.”
This is a nod to Summerhall, I think. Pretty certain Arthur wasn’t there, but IMO GRRM is utilizing the basic theme – fuck around with fire deities and you get burned…and probably witness the destruction of a structure of great significance to your realm.
But to continue that train of thought with another side tidbit: “No longer needing to be stationary, Heimdall spent more time in Asgard, and became close to Amora the Enchantress.” Heimdall had a brief love affair with character Amora the Enchantress (Journey into Mystery #103 1964, Avengers # 7 1964 ), who I have ID’d as Cersei…which makes perfect sense to me when you think about their respective pre-Rebellion locations and Cersei clearly working some kind of blood sugar sex magic to get Jaime appointed to the Kingsguard. Seducing the best and most valiant member of this exclusive club to bribe him into doing your bidding is a fantastic way to do that. And again…we’ve seen it before. *Arianne*cough*Arys*
(Imma just drop this link HERE so you can enjoy a quick read of Enchantress to understand why I’m pegging Cersei as her counterpart – a full character bio will come later, but this should be a tasty appetizer.)
Oh, and the final aspect of that excerpt that you might like? “When Odin returned to Asgard after Surtur's defeat, he gave a portion of his power to Heimdall to rebuild the Rainbow Bridge, and Heimdall resumed his duties.”
The only part of that I really care about is that Odin, the King of Asgard, commanded his guard to commence raising the significant structure from the ashes. We’ve talked about Rhaegar taking a long weekend to head to the ruins of Summerhall to sing/navelgaze and whatnot, and the location of the “Tower of Joy” being suspiciously close to Rhaegar’s favorite haunt. I have to wonder if there was a covert attempt to make it habitable again that we'll learn about in later books. (Maybe.)
Ok, enough segues…back to the story.
Obviously Heimdall has a parallel in Arthur Dayne – now, what does this have to do with SifShara? Well, not only is Sif his sibling, she is a Shieldmaiden of Asgard. Now, you might think that means “warrior” and imagine someone like Brienne, and that is true…but in real-world lore and even in lore of other fictional sagas (think Eowyn in LOTR), these are women who are certainly fierce and brave, but can also still be quite…feminine. From Wikipedia, “In the world of the sagas, women can be both honorable and remorseless, much like the male heroes. While a shieldmaiden does not fill a woman's typical role, her strength of character is found in even the more domestic women in these stories.” Though Marvel character Sif leans more toward the actual warrior-maid side, she is nonetheless a female that dreams of love and family while embracing her warrior tendencies. I think Ashara falls into this 'domesticated' category as well, and I would not be at all surprised to learn that she also plays a role for House Dayne, just as Arthur is the Sword of the Morning, that has yet to be revealed. Also, when you take into account GRRM’s SSM about Ashara not being nailed to the floor in Starfall/having horses and boats at her disposal for travel, I think this may be a hint that Ashara might have been more than just a pretty face…she had some substance, and may have been more than just window dressing with regard to events surrounding the Rebellion - she was an active participant.
Here’s a nice recap of Sif’s role in the Marvelverse. I have tentatively labeled Jane Foster as Elia, although it’s clear Rhaegar didn’t have nearly the hots for Elia that Thor did for Jane. I underlined passages that I believe support the Elia association.
Sif - Silver Age Sif first appeared in the Thor title as it was written under Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. With some fifty issues of Thor already under their collective belt, the two creators had already had and introduced a variety of supporting characters for the titles main protagonist the mighty Thor, including the books’ main romantic interest for the protagonist Jane Foster. [Main romantic interest for Rhaegar in ASOIAF is, of course, his wife.] They would introduce Sif in the modern area (Sif's first appearance in Journey Into Mystery #102 was a flashback) with a storyline wherein Jane Foster would travel to Asgard with Thor, Thor hoping that she would met Odin’s approval and be transformed into a god so the two could marry. Jane would fail Odin’s test, also failing to impress the all-father. [ I think Mama Martell was the instigator in the Rhaegar/Elia match, but either way, Elia fell short of Aerys’ approval despite her Targaryen blood.] After Jane Foster failed Odin's tests to win Thor's love, Sif was introduced, and she joined Thor on many adventures as a fellow warrior.
Sif would be introduced in this arc to essentially add another potential romantic interest for Thor as well as add another Asgardian supporting character, also one adapted from the real world Norse mythology like Thor. Sif would enter the scene with the Thor character heartbroken after losing Jane Foster. [Replace “losing” with “marrying” and I think we’ve got it.] Sif would be introduced as an immortal and warrior to contrast against Foster’s mortality and all too human fragility. [Although we haven’t seen this yet from Ashara, I think we might.] Aiding Thor in battle against the Lurking Unknown would spark new hope, romance and enthusiasm in the thunder god, and would also mark the beginning of Sif's role in the Marvel Universe.
To conclude, my biggest reservation with this entire segment of the Marvelous research is that Sif could very well be equally represented by Lyanna. From what we know of Lyanna, she absolutely meets all of the requirements of a shieldmaiden, she has a warrior brother or three that serve as guardian of an enormous structure that separates realms (and perhaps one of those brothers even had the greensight, who knows), and, if you believe the RLJers, she was Rhaegar’s one true love that could never be, ships that pass in the night, star-crossed lovers, etc. And it’s true…those things apply, and could be used as justification for either scenario. Whole picture though, I just feel like Ashara fills the Sif role better, especially when we get into the rest of the story (soon, soon.)
Comments? I would love to hear others' thoughts before I lay out the rest of the snynopsis. It also goes without saying that this ties in with the "Jon at Starfall" thread in the Parentage Essays forum.