Wraith, Lady Barbrey opened the crypts. Many places it is stated that the stairs going down are narrow and winding. Several places it gives the impression that the statues of the kings and lords are somewhat over life sized. In Winds - Theon- Theon relates that a Frey broke his neck in a pit dug by the young Umbers out side the Hunters gate. In GoT in a Bran chapter it is mentioned that the crypts extend beyond the walls of the castle. The stonemason was said to have know Lord Rickon well. It is no leap to consider the exta - lifesized statues would not fit down the stairs. A stonemason that knew Lord Rickon well would be of the north and know there was a service entrance so to speak into the crypts from outside the walls. Said stonemason could be an Umber. Yes - No ?
So if you were Euron and wanted to hijack green dreamers and even a prodigy green seer, being a seemingly failed candidate for green seer school, you would know not to use ravens. Next likely candidate crows. Kind of long, no lynch party - please.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
I'm not a believer that she stepped out,but i agree if she did Robert would be pissed off no matter what.He would see this as a betrayal by her.I'm still inclined to see it in the context of GRRM's statement:
It's not impossible that she ran off,i just don't see that as the most probable reason she disappeared given that she expressed nothing of not wanting to marry Robert.Hell Ned after all these years indicates "had she lived.she would have still been Robert's bride."
AH! I should have been more specific--I don't think Lyanna ran off with anyone. Let alone that she was running from Robert. Best I can figure, she ended up with Rhaegar and Co after a mess--like Arya ends up with the Brotherhood after running from the Lannisters--and a mess.
If she then got caught up and cheated--wolf-blood and all that--That I could see. But running from Robert? You've made an excellent case for them caring for each other. Can't see a reason for her to run.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
It is no leap to consider the exta - lifesized statues would not fit down the stairs. A stonemason that knew Lord Rickon well would be of the north and know there was a service entrance so to speak into the crypts from outside the walls. Said stonemason could be an Umber. Yes - No ?
Interesting question. Consider this quote:
A Clash of Kings - Bran I "All creatures dream, I think, yet not as men do." "Do dead men dream?" Bran asked, thinking of his father. In the dark crypts below Winterfell, a stonemason was chiseling out his father's likeness in granite. "Some say yes, some no," the maester answered. "The dead themselves are silent on the matter."
The stonemason is doing his job inside the crypt itself. We'd have to assume that the granite is there to be chiseled, certainly a block would not fit down the narrow stairwell.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
Post by Dornish Neck Tie on Aug 26, 2016 3:33:08 GMT
Magical gifts have absolutely nothing to do with genetic inheritance. Just a hunch. I still need to put some coherent evidence together.
Related: Characters in the story won't shut up about the power of king's blood. However, this power, if it exists, can't have anything to do with the bloodlines themselves. I'm taking the long view here, but people regularly change their minds about who they want to call their king; Westeros has had very few borders set in stone in its history. Bloodlines are only tangentially related to this king-making decision once a population enters crisis mode, which are very likely the times when spilling king's blood becomes a viable option.
Last Edit: Aug 26, 2016 3:40:39 GMT by Dornish Neck Tie: Edited to add
"No true knight would condone such wanton butchery." "True knights see worse every time they ride to war, wench," said Jaime. "And do worse, yes." Brienne turned the rudder toward the shore. "I'll leave no innocents to be food for crows." "A heartless wench. Crows need to eat as well. Stay to the river and leave the dead alone, woman."
Related: Characters in the story won't shut up about the power of king's blood. However, this power, if it exists, can't have anything to do with the bloodlines themselves. I'm taking the long view here, but people regularly change their minds about who they want to call their king; Westeros has had very few borders set in stone in its history. Bloodlines are only tangentially related to this king-making decision once a population enters crisis mode, which are very likely the times when spilling king's blood becomes a viable option.
It's Varys' riddle isn't it ? Power resides where people believe it resides. I think a force exists in Martin's world that can actually turn belief into power. In other words, people believe a king's blood has power so king's blood has power because people believe.
Related: Characters in the story won't shut up about the power of king's blood. However, this power, if it exists, can't have anything to do with the bloodlines themselves. I'm taking the long view here, but people regularly change their minds about who they want to call their king; Westeros has had very few borders set in stone in its history. Bloodlines are only tangentially related to this king-making decision once a population enters crisis mode, which are very likely the times when spilling king's blood becomes a viable option.
It's Varys' riddle isn't it ? Power resides where people believe it resides. I think a force exists in Martin's world that can actually turn belief into power. In other words, people believe a king's blood has power so king's blood has power because people believe.
Exactly! Many, many clinks to you, my friend!
I started a thread at Westeros with this exact premise, that magic was nothing more than the physical manifestation of "faith," or whatever you want to call it. Didn't really get any nibbles, if I remember correctly...
"No true knight would condone such wanton butchery." "True knights see worse every time they ride to war, wench," said Jaime. "And do worse, yes." Brienne turned the rudder toward the shore. "I'll leave no innocents to be food for crows." "A heartless wench. Crows need to eat as well. Stay to the river and leave the dead alone, woman."
I think that is the point of Varys' riddle within the story. There are a couple of things that you should note when considering this as a possibility. The first is GRRM maintaining that what happened to Dany in Drogo's funeral pyre is a "unique" event. This made me start to think that magic in Martin's universe had no rules. Instead there is simply a power in the air, like electromagnetism in our world, a power that can be harnessed given the right circumstances. This was outright confirmed for me when Thoros resurrected Beric. In many magical words, spells and incantations are used to work magic (don't get me started on my HP mnemonic theory) and in many of these worlds the words themselves are said to have power, this ain't the case on Planetos. Thoros brings Beric back by performing the R'hllorists funerary rite, "The Last Kiss". It has words just like a spell but the power can't come from those words because if it did then red priests all over Essos would accidentally be reviving people they were performing those rites upon. So where did the power to resurrect Beric come from ? I would also rule out Thoros as possessing the power because that just doesn't make any sense. The only thing that holds up is that Beric's resurrection (much like Dany's fire bath) was a "unique" event. An event created by the specific circumstances in which they found themselves. Beric's iron will and desire to serve the noble cause he was given by Ned Stark. Thoros love for his friend and horror that he had been killed and (for want of a better phrase) the resurgence of magical energies that appears to be occurring. Add all those together and I think you have the recipe for (worked?) magic in GRRM's world. It a bit "Deus Ex Machina", as the author can essentially have magic fix any holes in his plot but at the same time it's quite realistic. Magic as a property of the physical world is a much more believable (to me anyway) context for magic, as opposed to words that can somehow affect reality.
Last Edit: Aug 28, 2016 21:09:07 GMT by pieceofgosa
I started a thread at Westeros with this exact premise, that magic was nothing more than the physical manifestation of "faith," or whatever you want to call it. Didn't really get any nibbles, if I remember correctly...
Yup. Often as not new ideas over there conjure some dramatic reactions.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
I started a thread at Westeros with this exact premise, that magic was nothing more than the physical manifestation of "faith," or whatever you want to call it. Didn't really get any nibbles, if I remember correctly...
Yup. Often as not new ideas over there conjure some dramatic reactions.
Maybe I'll start using false "secret Targ" beacons in thread titles over there...lol
I wish Heresy had its own sub-board on Westeros. Love that thread and have much respect for Black Crow as an OG Heretic. He gave a lot of people that first opportunity to jump down the rabbit hole, myself included, but Heresy is naturally restricted in its scope by having only one thread open at a time. Fortunately, this site exists.
"No true knight would condone such wanton butchery." "True knights see worse every time they ride to war, wench," said Jaime. "And do worse, yes." Brienne turned the rudder toward the shore. "I'll leave no innocents to be food for crows." "A heartless wench. Crows need to eat as well. Stay to the river and leave the dead alone, woman."
I wish Heresy had its own sub-board on Westeros. Love that thread and have much respect for Black Crow as an OG Heretic. He gave a lot of people that first opportunity to jump down the rabbit hole, myself included, but Heresy is naturally restricted in its scope by having only one thread open at a time. Fortunately, this site exists.
We've invited him several times to come join the Hearth. He almost did when we got a hold of the new Damphair chapter. But he is set in his ways, and enjoys the traffic over there. We are catching up though. Actually, we already have... I should let him know. Our site and page views are way beyond what they were back when I invited him. As of this moment, Heresy vol 190 has 8,027 views and 287 replies since the thread was opened on August 2nd.
Our numbers in that timespan are many times greater: