Post by SlyWren on Jan 24, 2016 22:42:27 GMT
So, this one should probably be called "The Wolf Girl" vs. just "The Girl."
I had trouble finding inversions of the sort Melisandra was looking for. But in listing the similarities, I think I found a few.
So, this is less of an "argument" than a jumping off point for a workshop.
Hopefully it gets somewhere near what Melisandra was thinking of.
So Part I: The List of Similarities:
LYANNA: She-wolf
--Dies at end of her “arc” and her journey south
--Supposed to marry a Barratheon and unify Stark/Barratheon houses (ultimate purpose unknown)
--Taken all the way home to Winterfell
--Her words and memory haunt Ned
--Defended Howland—actively. He and Ned bond (vs. Dontos and Baelish)—positive: Howland saves Ned.
--Known to love flowers --Ned brings them to her tomb.
--Would have carried a sword if father allowed it.
--Given rose crown as Queen of Love and Beauty by a singer—associated with her death
--Discerns the nature of “love” and fidelity—but wants the “romance” of fidelity despite some disillusionment with Robert.
--"Known" to have been "fallen on" by Rhaegar in the Riverlands, not many leagues from Harrenhal.
--Rides very well.
--Reacts with sniffles to sad songs
.
--But annoyed when she’s teased by family.
--Protectors--unknown????
--Death associated with a tower (there or not).
--Death associated with Starfall and Ashara’s suicide (Ned brings back sword from a fight).
--Rhaegar the singer blamed for everything by Robert.
SANSA: She-wolf
--Wolf dies at START of her Arc and her journey south.
--Supposed to marry a Baratheon—ultimate purpose to become Queen.
--Wolf-self returned to Winterfell.
--Words and tears and wolf haunt Ned.
--Defended Dontos—with quick thinking, vs. action. And it all eventually goes badly—he “saves” her, but ends up delivering her to Baelish. And he ends up dead.
--"Known" to have killed Joffrey, the Targ wannabe--in King's Landing (quite a few leagues form Harrenhal).
--Loves lemon cakes.
--Given a rose by the “winner”—but only because another fighter defended him (did someone take a fall so Rhaegar could win? World Book says people were surprised that he even competed).
--No singer until Marillion.
--Romanticizes love—until brutally disillusioned by Joff.
--Loves riding and Hawking.
--Helped/protected by the Hound.
--Looks to “true” knights for protection--but they often fail her.
--Loves singers songs—until Marillion—who calls her a rose.
--Also fights back against family when teased.
--Taken to a tower to set up her disguise—protected by disguise and “allies.”
--Then to the Eyrie—only other castle named as having white stone towers.
--Lysa killed by falling from tower.
--Marillion the singer blamed for Lysa’s death.
--But Sansa helps the deception—and lives as a witness.
--Learning about plotting and manipulation of people.
--Dreams of Lady
ARYA: She-wolf
--Split self at the start of her journey south—drives Nymeria away. Not dead, but divided from home and her wolfy identity.
--Supposed to marry a Frey—to gain Robb’s ability to defend his family and even save her--a twist on “Southron ambitions.”
--Defends Mycah. And it all goes very badly. Ends up dead. And Arya hates the Hound.
--Was hunted by Jaime after her fight with Joff.
--"Known" to have "fallen on" Joffrey, the Targ wannabe, in the Riverlands, not many leagues from Harrenhal.
--Loves picking flowers and brings them to Ned.
--Gets a sword AND formal training.
--Helped/protected by the Hound. Protected by Beric and Yoren—a knight and a sworn brother—both with loyalty to Ned.
--Expects sworn fighters to be true to their word--gets mad when they don't. And rejects Beric for not being what she wants. Same with the Hound--follows her revenge list vs. what he actually has done for her.
--Protected by disguise and “allies,” not by holing up in one place.
--Learning to plot and read disguises.
--Wolf dreams
Part II: Preliminary Inversions
1. Lyanna wanted a sword. Sansa relies on the swords of others--and is angry when the sworn swords fail. Both Lyanna and Sansa end up "Fallen upon." But Arya actually gets a sword AND formal training. She uses that sword to get away from being "fallen upon" by the Targ wannabes.
2. Lyanna dies at the end of her journey in (probable) motherhood. Sansa's wolf dies at the start of her journey--before she's "flowered" (I really hate that euphemism). So, will the inversion keep going? Will Sansa get to live where Lyanna died? Will Sansa get to stay with the man who fathers her child and raise said child (whoever he may be) vs. Lyanna?
Arya? She's separated from her wolf, but she is with a death cult. . .
3. Sansa romanticizes fighters--so does Arya--did Lyanna? Did she romanticize like either of her nieces? Neither?
4. Arya is caught up with the death cult--and their magics. Sansa--so far--no magics. Lyanna: "known" to have been taken by a man interested in prophecy: so, is this an inversion of Arya? A parallel? Or is she paralleling Sansa?
And that was all I could think of this weekend.
So, in the above list of comparisons or in your own recollections, what are you seeing that shows a potentially illuminating plot inversion for the role of the "girl?"
I had trouble finding inversions of the sort Melisandra was looking for. But in listing the similarities, I think I found a few.
So, this is less of an "argument" than a jumping off point for a workshop.
Hopefully it gets somewhere near what Melisandra was thinking of.
So Part I: The List of Similarities:
LYANNA: She-wolf
--Dies at end of her “arc” and her journey south
--Supposed to marry a Barratheon and unify Stark/Barratheon houses (ultimate purpose unknown)
--Taken all the way home to Winterfell
--Her words and memory haunt Ned
--Defended Howland—actively. He and Ned bond (vs. Dontos and Baelish)—positive: Howland saves Ned.
--Known to love flowers --Ned brings them to her tomb.
--Would have carried a sword if father allowed it.
--Given rose crown as Queen of Love and Beauty by a singer—associated with her death
--Discerns the nature of “love” and fidelity—but wants the “romance” of fidelity despite some disillusionment with Robert.
--"Known" to have been "fallen on" by Rhaegar in the Riverlands, not many leagues from Harrenhal.
--Rides very well.
--Reacts with sniffles to sad songs
.
--But annoyed when she’s teased by family.
--Protectors--unknown????
--Death associated with a tower (there or not).
--Death associated with Starfall and Ashara’s suicide (Ned brings back sword from a fight).
--Rhaegar the singer blamed for everything by Robert.
SANSA: She-wolf
--Wolf dies at START of her Arc and her journey south.
--Supposed to marry a Baratheon—ultimate purpose to become Queen.
--Wolf-self returned to Winterfell.
--Words and tears and wolf haunt Ned.
--Defended Dontos—with quick thinking, vs. action. And it all eventually goes badly—he “saves” her, but ends up delivering her to Baelish. And he ends up dead.
--"Known" to have killed Joffrey, the Targ wannabe--in King's Landing (quite a few leagues form Harrenhal).
--Loves lemon cakes.
--Given a rose by the “winner”—but only because another fighter defended him (did someone take a fall so Rhaegar could win? World Book says people were surprised that he even competed).
--No singer until Marillion.
--Romanticizes love—until brutally disillusioned by Joff.
--Loves riding and Hawking.
--Helped/protected by the Hound.
--Looks to “true” knights for protection--but they often fail her.
--Loves singers songs—until Marillion—who calls her a rose.
--Also fights back against family when teased.
--Taken to a tower to set up her disguise—protected by disguise and “allies.”
--Then to the Eyrie—only other castle named as having white stone towers.
--Lysa killed by falling from tower.
--Marillion the singer blamed for Lysa’s death.
--But Sansa helps the deception—and lives as a witness.
--Learning about plotting and manipulation of people.
--Dreams of Lady
ARYA: She-wolf
--Split self at the start of her journey south—drives Nymeria away. Not dead, but divided from home and her wolfy identity.
--Supposed to marry a Frey—to gain Robb’s ability to defend his family and even save her--a twist on “Southron ambitions.”
--Defends Mycah. And it all goes very badly. Ends up dead. And Arya hates the Hound.
--Was hunted by Jaime after her fight with Joff.
--"Known" to have "fallen on" Joffrey, the Targ wannabe, in the Riverlands, not many leagues from Harrenhal.
--Loves picking flowers and brings them to Ned.
--Gets a sword AND formal training.
--Helped/protected by the Hound. Protected by Beric and Yoren—a knight and a sworn brother—both with loyalty to Ned.
--Expects sworn fighters to be true to their word--gets mad when they don't. And rejects Beric for not being what she wants. Same with the Hound--follows her revenge list vs. what he actually has done for her.
--Protected by disguise and “allies,” not by holing up in one place.
--Learning to plot and read disguises.
--Wolf dreams
Part II: Preliminary Inversions
1. Lyanna wanted a sword. Sansa relies on the swords of others--and is angry when the sworn swords fail. Both Lyanna and Sansa end up "Fallen upon." But Arya actually gets a sword AND formal training. She uses that sword to get away from being "fallen upon" by the Targ wannabes.
2. Lyanna dies at the end of her journey in (probable) motherhood. Sansa's wolf dies at the start of her journey--before she's "flowered" (I really hate that euphemism). So, will the inversion keep going? Will Sansa get to live where Lyanna died? Will Sansa get to stay with the man who fathers her child and raise said child (whoever he may be) vs. Lyanna?
Arya? She's separated from her wolf, but she is with a death cult. . .
3. Sansa romanticizes fighters--so does Arya--did Lyanna? Did she romanticize like either of her nieces? Neither?
4. Arya is caught up with the death cult--and their magics. Sansa--so far--no magics. Lyanna: "known" to have been taken by a man interested in prophecy: so, is this an inversion of Arya? A parallel? Or is she paralleling Sansa?
And that was all I could think of this weekend.
So, in the above list of comparisons or in your own recollections, what are you seeing that shows a potentially illuminating plot inversion for the role of the "girl?"