Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
And that's why she needs the mask--so the fact that she's everyone doesn't bleed through.
Glad that's settled then. On to the next mystery!
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
I think it'd be neat if the Stonehenge thing was made of the same black stone that was used for the Seastone Chair, the Toad idol, Yeen, the stone the Bloodstone Emperor worshiped, etc. Seems pretty unlikely, though, since the black stones aren't a "thing" in the show, and they're barely even a thing in the books.
I agree, that would be awesome. Especially if the weirwoods originally were just white, and the red was added after the first blood sacrifice (so it all started as just black and white, a recurring theme related to death). The bigger problem for me, more so than the black stones not being all that relevant in the main books, is that the Stonehenge arrangement was never mentioned in the books (at least thus far). Also, unlike in the show, the Others in the books don't arrange their dead in weird patterns...
Yup! And might explain why the show seems to connect the white walkers and the dragons in season 1: the circle the Rangers find at the start of episode 1 and Dany's dragon-birthing circle at the end of episode 10.
Nice catch! This does seem to fit. Speaking of that scene in episode 1, I wonder about the dead child pinned to the tree.
Were the ww's trying to make another of themselves, but failed and only made a wight?
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
Were the ww's trying to make another of themselves, but failed and only made a wight?
AAAHHHH!! That's a fabulous catch!
That would make a lot of sense! Or they were trying to perform a mocking version of what happened to them.
Also, when Mance says that line about the Walkers always being artists when they leave that spiral on the Fist, that might also be part of the mockery. Or part of their using the power for themselves.
Am now thinking we need a thread just on this so we can get into the symbolism and implications of what they show's potentially been doing.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
That would make a lot of sense! Or they were trying to perform a mocking version of what happened to them.
I like that better- they were copying what was done to them, possibly in a mocking way. After all, having had 8,000 years to try it out, they had to be aware that it wouldn't work.
Although I would kind of love it if they were the tormented victims of the story, trying to find a way to undo what was done to them... copying the process, trying to understand it? I don't know, but I feel like it would fit with GRRM's style. Even if they were created, not born, they shouldn't be pure evil, that's lame.
I do wonder why they go after men at all. It seems they escaped from the COTF's control, and given the obvious copying of the stone patterns, they seem aware of who it was that turned them into what they are. And it wasn't men. They were men, taken against their will and turned into icy abominations, forced to kill their former friends and comrades. If they are truly "free", shouldn't they be going after the COTF, not the wildlings?
I must say, I love love LOVE that they are now complicated antagonists, possibly still being forced to act against their own will. This is even better than anything I imagined when I first started doubting their all-out evilness a couple of years ago. Hell, for all we know they are shooing all humans away from Beyond the Wall to protect them: they worry that the COTF will take more of them and turn them, so they are forcing them to flee to the south, or die. Sure, they kill some of them, but one could argue that death is preferable to becoming a ww. (Maybe the babies are an exception and have free will? Something about them is different? They sure weren't stabbed in the heart, in fact the one we saw was handled pretty gently.)
lol. I know I'm pushing it, but I just looove where this is (or at least could be) going!1
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
I like that better- they were copying what was done to them, possibly in a mocking way. After all, having had 8,000 years to try it out, they had to be aware that it wouldn't work.
Although I would kind of love it if they were the tormented victims of the story, trying to find a way to undo what was done to them... copying the process, trying to understand it? I don't know, but I feel like it would fit with GRRM's style. Even if they were created, not born, they shouldn't be pure evil, that's lame.
Okay--I've been away for a while and so am not going to try to catch up to everything, but I had to answer this--I love the idea of their being tortured sous, too. Martin's shown us a few tortured souls--especially Theon. The idea of the magically tortured victim, trying to overcome those who turned them (the Children) and those who fought them (the humans)--it would work well.
I do wonder why they go after men at all. It seems they escaped from the COTF's control, and given the obvious copying of the stone patterns, they seem aware of who it was that turned them into what they are. And it wasn't men. They were men, taken against their will and turned into icy abominations, forced to kill their former friends and comrades. If they are truly "free", shouldn't they be going after the COTF, not the wildlings?
Perhaps because men hated them? Or, if the Night's King was an Other and was thrown down by his human brother (the Stark in Winterfell), it would be a betrayal. Rather like the Free Folk and the Northerners now fight each other when It's actually stupid to do so.
I must say, I love love LOVE that they are now complicated antagonists, possibly still being forced to act against their own will. This is even better than anything I imagined when I first started doubting their all-out evilness a couple of years ago.
Agreed--though if the books are at all like the show, I'm guessing the Others have their own will now. That's the whole problem for the Children.
Hell, for all we know they are shooing all humans away from Beyond the Wall to protect them: they worry that the COTF will take more of them and turn them, so they are forcing them to flee to the south, or die. Sure, they kill some of them, but one could argue that death is preferable to becoming a ww.
Maybe--but they seem to take a fair amount of pleasure in killing Waymar. . .
(Maybe the babies are an exception and have free will? Something about them is different? They sure weren't stabbed in the heart, in fact the one we saw was handled pretty gently.)
I really hope the show fills in this blank, but I'm not sure they will. But in the books, I wonder if this is why the Others leave Craters be--not just because he gave them his sons, but because his sons are "in league" with their father.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.