Them "confirm" this.This is one of those statements that surprises me.I always thought that was the author's job.I guess what I'm trying to say is until it is written in the books its not a confirmation.
Like I said before a lot of these issues fall into GRRM's lap. He's only managed to publish one book since the TV series launched, and he had to give D&D an outline so they could finish the series. The small details may be them trying to fill in the blanks, but I don't think that D&D would take creative liberty and naming Jon a Targaryian when GRRM had other plans. Basically, if you go back and watch from the beginning both Jon and Dany's stories have mirrored one another, and they have been hinting at this since the pilot. It also was one of the questions that GRRM asked D&D before he agreed to let them adapt his novels. They have been working towards this reveal for over 60 hours.
The story is about Jon and Dany. Ice and Fire. With RL=J we have 2 Targaryens. It does not fit. Jon would be not the Ice part but Ice and Fire himself. And Geirge said Jon is not the main protagonist. But making him the true heir (which he is not Bran, practise your history lessons) and Ice and Fire would make him THE main protaginist. Dany being "only" fire. It is imbalance. It does not fit somehow
Like I said before a lot of these issues fall into GRRM's lap. He's only managed to publish one book since the TV series launched, and he had to give D&D an outline so they could finish the series. The small details may be them trying to fill in the blanks, but I don't think that D&D would take creative liberty and naming Jon a Targaryian when GRRM had other plans. Basically, if you go back and watch from the beginning both Jon and Dany's stories have mirrored one another, and they have been hinting at this since the pilot. It also was one of the questions that GRRM asked D&D before he agreed to let them adapt his novels. They have been working towards this reveal for over 60 hours.
The story is about Jon and Dany. Ice and Fire. With RL=J we have 2 Targaryens. It does not fit. Jon would be not the Ice part but Ice and Fire himself. And Geirge said Jon is not the main protagonist. But making him the true heir (which he is not Bran, practise your history lessons) and Ice and Fire would make him THE main protaginist. Dany being "only" fire.
It is imbalance. It does not fit somehow
If you're judging Jon by who his father is then he still wouldn't be ICE if his father was Dayne. We know his mother is a Stark and that he has a connection to the Direwolves. He is the one who found them, and has a connection to Ghost even though we don't see it in the show. There's more hints towards him being a Targaryian, and pretty much none whatsoever that he is a Dayne in the TV series. TV can't be as complex as novels otherwise you just have people standing around explaining stuff, which is boring TV.
Jon was born and raised a Stark, so regardless of who his father is he will always be a Stark. In a way Theon is also a Stark, and I think he will have a story of redemption even though I think it will end in his demise.
The story is about Jon and Dany. Ice and Fire. With RL=J we have 2 Targaryens. It does not fit. Jon would be not the Ice part but Ice and Fire himself. And Geirge said Jon is not the main protagonist. But making him the true heir (which he is not Bran, practise your history lessons) and Ice and Fire would make him THE main protaginist. Dany being "only" fire.
It is imbalance. It does not fit somehow
If you're judging Jon by who his father is then he still wouldn't be ICE if his father was Dayne. We know his mother is a Stark and that he has a connection to the Direwolves. He is the one who found them, and has a connection to Ghost even though we don't see it in the show. There's more hints towards him being a Targaryian, and pretty much none whatsoever that he is a Dayne in the TV series. TV can't be as complex as novels otherwise you just have people standing around explaining stuff, which is boring TV.
Jon was born and raised a Stark, so regardless of who his father is he will always be a Stark. In a way Theon is also a Stark, and I think he will have a story of redemption even though I think it will end in his demise.
There are quite a few very clear Dayne hints in the show. And you are right, Jon is a Stark. He is all Northern. So why this Targaryen hype? To be fair: book Jon has more connection to Daynes than TArgaryens. He has zero Targ traits but quite a few similarities to Arthur. The ice and fire part makes sense if the X part is for both, Jon and Dany. If Dany is also half Dayne - which is also hinted - the we had a Targaryen-Dayne-Stark blood connection. The Daynes have the oldest blood in Westeros. They are older than Valyrian families. They are the only family that lived in the times of the First Long Night. It makes a hell of sense and is not as limited to the story than just love and heir to the throne.
The Daynes have the oldest blood in Westeros. They are older than Valyrian families. They are the only family that lived in the times of the First Long Night. It makes a hell of sense and is not as limited to the story than just love and heir to the throne.
Not quite. The Daynes share these honors and antiquity with one other house...
That of Brandon.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
If Dany is also half Dayne - which is also hinted - the we had a Targaryen-Dayne-Stark blood connection.
Fun fact all any kids from Rhaegar and Aerys have a very curious mix of blood.
Egg aka Aegon V was half Dayne and half Targaryen and he married a Blackwood. The next few generations were brother/sister marriages. So Jon and Dany would already have both Dayne and Targayren blood not to mention Blackwood which we know from Bloodraven has tons of that magic juju.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Them "confirm" this.This is one of those statements that surprises me.I always thought that was the author's job.I guess what I'm trying to say is until it is written in the books its not a confirmation.
Like I said before a lot of these issues fall into GRRM's lap. He's only managed to publish one book since the TV series launched, and he had to give D&D an outline so they could finish the series. The small details may be them trying to fill in the blanks, but I don't think that D&D would take creative liberty and naming Jon a Targaryian when GRRM had other plans. Basically, if you go back and watch from the beginning both Jon and Dany's stories have mirrored one another, and they have been hinting at this since the pilot. It also was one of the questions that GRRM asked D&D before he agreed to let them adapt his novels. They have been working towards this reveal for over 60 hours.
GRRM asked D&D who Jon's "mother" was,not who his "parents"are.
Plus,George isn't going to let D&D reveal his major secrets.Which includes
1.Origin of the Others and pretty much that story.
2.Jon's parentage
And many others.
And he's already stated that the show may,yes and or no will spoil the books; continuing to give an example about how he enjoyed a particular book and show( can't remember) even though they turned out to be different.
He's said this to, the show is their baby the books are his.They can do what they like,he is going to do what he likes.
Not to be snarky but this die hard statement about what happens in the show must be a confirmation in the books gets me sometimes.
I say that because I'm already experiencing the "the show confirmed it so what's there to talk about " crowd.So,I just would like that distinction made clear.It kind of not intentionally shuts down conversation.
I hope you see what I'm saying.Its just an awareness to keep those two mediums in the ccorrect light.
The story is about Jon and Dany. Ice and Fire. With RL=J we have 2 Targaryens. It does not fit. Jon would be not the Ice part but Ice and Fire himself. And Geirge said Jon is not the main protagonist. But making him the true heir (which he is not Bran, practise your history lessons) and Ice and Fire would make him THE main protaginist. Dany being "only" fire.
It is imbalance. It does not fit somehow
If you're judging Jon by who his father is then he still wouldn't be ICE if his father was Dayne. We know his mother is a Stark and that he has a connection to the Direwolves. He is the one who found them, and has a connection to Ghost even though we don't see it in the show. There's more hints towards him being a Targaryian, and pretty much none whatsoever that he is a Dayne in the TV series. TV can't be as complex as novels otherwise you just have people standing around explaining stuff, which is boring TV.
Jon was born and raised a Stark, so regardless of who his father is he will always be a Stark. In a way Theon is also a Stark, and I think he will have a story of redemption even though I think it will end in his demise.
Ice and fire has so many connotations though.We as fans have limited that to being the personification of Dany and Jon when it could be among others things describing a conflict.Mind you one that has been going on for ages over and over again.
He "has" a song is different to him "being" a song.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
Not to be snarky but this die hard statement about what happens in the show must be a confirmation in the books gets me sometimes.
I just don't think that the show is going to make huge changes to major characters. Maybe I'm wrong we won't know until/if GRRM completes the series. Take the Bran is the Night King theory. I don't think that D&D make that kind of change to a major character unless it's what GRRM had planned. I feel the same about the R+L=J theory. If GRRM's plan is to make him a Dayne then D&D would have went into more backstory about the Dayne family in the show. Like I said, who knows...we'll have to wait until 2018-19 for TWoW to be released.
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If Dany is also half Dayne - which is also hinted - the we had a Targaryen-Dayne-Stark blood connection.
Fun fact all any kids from Rhaegar and Aerys have a very curious mix of blood.
Egg aka Aegon V was half Dayne and half Targaryen and he married a Blackwood. The next few generations were brother/sister marriages. So Jon and Dany would already have both Dayne and Targayren blood not to mention Blackwood which we know from Bloodraven has tons of that magic juju.
This is where the whole argument gets off for me and why defining the song of ice and fire as Dany and or Jon is problematic.I ask everyone to watch GRRM's wording "the three heads of the dragon need not all be Targs"
When is a person not and still a Targ?
When they have the blood and not the name.
If fans need him to be someone because of blood it doesn't matter what "X" + L =J in the equation he will have it.
If he's Rhaegar's he will have Dayne,Targ and first men blood.
If he is Robert's he will have Dayne,Targ first men blood.And added bonus of having a lineage to actual gods.
If he is Arthur's then he has Dayne,first men and Targ blood.
Its kind of all a wash in that department in a most instances.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
Not to be snarky but this die hard statement about what happens in the show must be a confirmation in the books gets me sometimes.
I just don't think that the show is going to make huge changes to major characters. Maybe I'm wrong we won't know until/if GRRM completes the series. Take the Bran is the Night King theory. I don't think that D&D make that kind of change to a major character unless it's what GRRM had planned. I feel the same about the R+L=J theory. If GRRM's plan is to make him a Dayne then D&D would have went into more backstory about the Dayne family in the show. Like I said, who knows...we'll have to wait until 2018-19 for TWoW to be released.
GRRM had to have told them though for it to be considered a change and we don't know that he told them who Jon's parents are.I doubt very much that he did.
He may have said in the broad the following:
Jon will king.And that can be true 3 different ways including being on the Iron throne,KITN or Winter's king.
He could have said Bran will go a little darkside and that can be 2 different ways.They could have landed on calling him NK because it sounded cool from the books.
GRRM could have confirmed Jon is Lyanna's boy and let them run with that.
He could have said to them Jon has Targ blood and 4 possibilities would make that true and he wouldn't be lying and they wouldn't be wrong no matter who they chose.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
If Cersei is pregnant; the general assumption will be that Jaimie's the father. The 'shocking' reveal would be for Euron to be the father... two good hands and all. Then we would be set up for Euron to take out Cersei. Course for all we know, the Night King will take out Cersei.
It would be good.
Though I'm also thinking they will be going more for FINALLY having Jaime leave her, despite the baby. And that fact crushing her (at least temporarily). Given that Jaime should have left Cersei at least one full season ago, they may be going for "heft" to give it "believability."
Only thing I can think of is either the Starks and Targaryians during a flashback, or it could be that Dany finds out Jon is a Targaryian and next in line for the throne. Of course, Jon doesn't seem the least bit interested in being King, so he'd probably shrug and tell Dany that she can have it.
If the show id making Jon a Targ, he's clearly not interested in it. And they just established pretty clearly that while dragons are good for conquering the living, the dead just take the dragons for themselves.
And even if they arm everyone with dragonglass, every one the wights they could kill as they try to get to the Night King and kill him--every one of those "dead" wights can be replaced by all the dead humans from the fight. A constantly replenishing army for the Walkers.
And, seems like the Night King can read/see Bran when Bran's dying on him--so, if they have a plan, will have to figure out how to keep Bran's consciousness from "leaking" to the Night King.
All in all, based on what they just showed us, not sure how a second Targ would help anything. At all.
They need a different weapon or strategy entirely.
Or perhaps the key to beating them really is rom-com meet cute
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
If the boatsex happens, it will be a major moral failure!
At this point, there have been so many moral failures, that I'm not sure it would matter.
The director from the last episode seems to be insisting that fans who don't like the wight hunt are too OCD. And too picky. And should just go with it.
I'm guessing that would be the answer for the above.
Jon is really dead dead. Making a point of him staying under water makes me wonder if he'll finally embrace his warg mode. Saw som talk about the eyes on the sword turning but I'd look at his pupils in that terrible boat scene instead. All black, all dead.
I liked preston jacobs' take--saying he thought Jon had dies at that moment in the scene and only realized he was alive when Harrington's face twitched. It's a valid point--he does look. . . dead.
Jaehaerys Targaryian? That name seemed to be all the rage not too long ago. I would hate it because then we would have Dany and Harry for nicknames. Dany isn't bad but Harry is horrible.
Yes--there was speculation on that point last season. But not in the spoilers I've seen this season.
And if that is the nickname, it would make the copyright infringement of Rowling complete. Right down to a "mark" that lets the Night King in.
Might as well go for broke.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Everyone seems to think that either Little Finger is playing both Arya and Sansa or that Arya is playing Little Finger, but I think that Sansa know what Little Finger is planning, and that she is the one playing everyone. She did learn from Cersai and Little Finger after all...
Sansa's turning on Baelish has been a LONG time coming. In the books, the set up is more subtle and includes an (apparently) repressed memory.
Here--they've shown she can handle him and others clear back in season 4 (I think). The scene when she "saves" him by identifying herself to the Vale Lords.
Then they draaaaaaaaaaged it out over seasons 5 and 6 and now to her ACTUALLY taking him fully out. I'm thinking in the books it will happen closer together.
Am now also struck by potential role Bran might play. In the novels, we find out in Storm that Baelish and Lysa killed Arryn, framed the Lannisters, and started the whole war. The show cut that from the moon door confessional.
If Bran really is weir-ipedia, and if Baelish did this in show world, he'd know. A reveal of that would definitely please the North and maybe even the Vale--given that Sansa flat out lied about Lysa's murder.
I wonder just how much "truth" will come out this episode.
How are they going to get Saving Private Wight across the Wall?
Why did the Children of the Forest create the Wight Walkers?
What is the Night King's motivation for driving an army of the dead south?
and of course Jon's parentage
1. LOVING the reference. Now am imagining Matt Damon in a cameo in the dragon pit. With a Boston accent as he growls.
Doing math.
And Jason Bourning it against the Hound.
2. Leaf said in show it was because the men were slaughtering them and burning or cutting down their sacred trees.
3. Night King motivation is a good question. Might just be they are the "scourge."
Though they had him and Jon give each other LONG, not so loving looks at Hardhome. After his sword killed a Walker (and no wights fell down--guess that Walker was a slacker). So--I'm thinking there's a chance he's thinking of something to do with Jon.
Though I don't think the show has even mention date Last Hero--have they????
4. They could conceivably (bad pun) put it off for next season, but I think we're getting it tomorrow.
The significance of it? That might wait for next season.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
GRRM had to have told them though for it to be considered a change and we don't know that he told them who Jon's parents are.I doubt very much that he did.
True. We have no idea what GRRM told them, but I think it's unlikely that he didn't. For reason's that we don't know yet Jon's parents are important to the story. If it wasn't then I doubt they would be stringing everyone along.
1) What's the benefit of Jon being a Targaryian? He doesn't want to be king. If it turns out that he has the rightful claim it would be out of character for him to take the throne from Dany. The only reason why I think that this is going to be important is that Dany is going to die at some point. Tyrion has already discussed succession plans, and that everything dies with her if she happens to die. Can you think of any other reason why Jon being a Targaryian would be important to the story?
2) What's the benefit of Jon being a Dayne? You're going to need to fill that one out because I am not very familiar with Arthur Dayne and his family.
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