Post by shymaid on Nov 11, 2017 21:50:07 GMT
I hadn't given it much thought either, but truly, there is not much that is just coincidence in this story. It all seems connected, and the prologues lay out so much important information that effects the rest of the story.
Haha, that's true! I just facepalm when I suddenly recognize something I should've seen from the start. This is one of those. And it actually started when I was wondering where exactly he disappeared and what might have really happened. Older threads and current conversations seems to give me an almost constand dot-connecting flow these days, it boggles the mind!
I have at times judged Sansa to harshly, and Cat as well. No one is perfect. As to Sansa, I have some sympathy for her character. Like Theon, who I also wanted to see pay for his decisions, Sansa pays pretty harshly for her choices. As does Theon. And while she certainly did want to stay in Kings Landing, she was manipulated by Cersei, and I don'e think that Sansa would have wished to harm her father or sister. Or any of the Winterfell men, which is not something Arya thinks. Arya is angry at everyone, including Ned, for how the butchers boy murder was dealt with. I see Sansa as separate from Cat, but they do have connections. Cat had something special in her blood that she passed to her children. It seems like she and Ned were meant to have children with shared blood, shared gifts from both blood lines.
I really see something of Ned in Sansa, a bit of a dreamer, before her dreams were crushed. Ned is gentle, Sansa is gentle. Ned understands the politics of proper, formal behavior, as does Sansa. That is one of Sansa's gifts. I don't think either Sansa or Arya would have survived if their personalities had been reversed. They were both meant to survive the situations that fate (GRRM) put them in. But sometimes, Sansa makes me very mad. Sometimes Arya does too, but she is a tomboy, and for some reason that makes her more likable than Sansa.
Jeyne Poole also is rather mean and snobbish to Arya, and I wished her some punishment, and then she got Ramsay, and no one deserves that!
Yeah, I can be harsh on her too. I do see her better points, and certainly easier than in her mother (I do see them in her too). But Sansa can be maddening, and you just want to shake her up. Still, she is a 13 year old girl, which can be easy to forget. I partly blame the show for this as they aged up the characters, and as a show-first-then-books reader the actress' face fits well for me and muddles my mind.
There's not real harm in her, and if she knew the concequences for her going to Cersei beforhand she probably wouldn't have. And Ned chose to let her go off on her own when Septa Mordane wanted to follow her, so he could have stopped her. But the story had to go there, even if it hurts.
(I sometimes have a secret little hope that stories change from one reading to the next, so situations that is too painfull for various reasons don't come to pass. So far my hope has never been answered...)
I might have had a slight Preston overdose, as for now I'm taking a bit sceptic view of fates and the like. That is probably going to change later on, though. There could be a reason Ned and Cat ended up together, and various blood-mixes seem to have interesting effects!
I guess it's more on this reread that I've taken a deeper look into Ned, and now that you've mentioned a few times that Ned is a bit of a dreamer I'm starting to see this too. Just didn't cross my mind before. And it seems he gave this to several of his kids as you say. Another thing that is easily blamed on Catelyn, but might not me her fault.
And you're right on why/how the girls survived King's Landing; Arya would get into too much trouble if she'd ended up in Cersei's hands, while Sansa would've barely made it through the gates with Yorren. Thank the gods for the all mighty Martin! Arya is easier on the brain, but for me her tomboyishness isn't part of it. More that Sansa is too girly-girl for me, of the kind I've never had the stomach for... The opening scene in Arya I is the perfect example, including Jeyne.
I think GRRM is being purposely vague about Robb's gift, and what it means to the rest of our story. Also, your description of Robb ignoring Grey Wind's behavior is not unlike Jon, who also ignored Ghost's behavior at the Wall. Jon chose to ignore Ghost's behavior and left him locked in his chambers when Jon went to the shield hall, and his stabbing soon followed. We know that Jon thought Ghost was acting funny because of Borroq and his boar, but that is likely not the reason for Ghosts behavior. We have no POV to understand why Robb locked Grey Wind in the kennel the day of the Red Wedding, we only have Cat's interpretation of why. Either way, both Robb and Jon ignored animals they had strong bonds with, and it cost them both.
Yeah, there are many similarities between Robb an Jon in those crutial moments, so in that George mostly confirmed my take so far. Not that it can't be more to it, but not suprising so to speak. Jon had the potential benefit of advice big and small unlike Robb, with Melisandre and Borroq (I haven't reached where Borroq enters the story in my reread yet, but not far to go, so it's a bit hazy that part). Not that I trust Melisandre, but she does say his gift is strong and Jon ignores it. Borroq might not had time to do much, but IIRC we don't see Jon talking about that with him. Still, the potential was there.
Meat is meat! And if these wargs are making mistakes, how can they be blamed if they never were taught, never knew the rules. And I think that allowing those "abominations" makes you a very strong skinchanger, I am just not sure they might like what they become!
Mayhaps, but my instincts are so strong against cannibalism, that it repulses me to read it.
And I do see the fact that they are on their own, so I don't begrudge them that. There might be additional powers that comes with it, as you say, haven't thought about it due to the repulsion. But as there seems to be a general tabu against it, it might be a reason for that. Maybe the animal gets too strong a hold on the warg? Need to think more about this too. Damn it, I should just make a separate look-up list provided by you!
That being said, Arya has some sides that are right down scary!
I will have to look into Aerion. I just think of him as drinking wildfire hoping to become a dragon. Interesting, Aerion is one of the Targaryen's that Joffrey talks to Sansa about in Kings Landing in the show. Is the show including him as a reference because he is important to the end game?
I don't think there is that much information about him outside of the Hedge Knight, some bits here and there with some more tidbits, but the best picture of the man you get from Dunk.
I've seen that clip in some YT things, but wouldn't have remembered without that. So many details flew by me in the show, but I haven't rewatched that much. Years since the first seasons now.
I do think there is something more to Illyrio's intent with those hands. The bones know things, the bones remember things, there is power in bones. Maybe there is power in some shriveled up hands, too?
I wouldn't be suprised... Any bodypart would do I think, at least for some things. In others special parts might work better. Though, I have speculated that there is no hands. Forked beard, forked tongue!
I just was going through a denial stage about what had happened to Robb, but I thought it was interesting that the Walder's knew there was another person in the dungeons that they might have mistaken Theon for. Now, Theon looks like an old man, with white hair and dry skin, so maybe that conversation between the Walders is just to show us how much Theon has changed physically! But I do wonder about the other prisoner in the dungeons. Could it be someone from Winterfell? If Ramsay had someone of his own who was captive, he would kill them, torture and kill them. He didn't kill Theon because he was important to Roose. So that leads me to think there might be another person in the Dreadfort who is captive but important enough not to kill. But I do tend to overthink things, so maybe not!
Haha, I skipped that stage seeing it on the show so long before I read it! Maybe I dogded a bullet!
There might still be something to that prisoner, though not Robb. If there is few things without meaning in the story, chances are this is someone. Theon's changes are mentioned so many times, and going from a young man to looking like a very old man is drastic, so this is not for nothing. Have to keep an eye out as we read on!
I think it would have looked suspicious if Ned didn't bring some of his kids to Kings Landing. Sansa for sure, as she was betrothed to Joffrey. I think Ned didn't really want to leave Arya unsupervised in the north. It seems like Ned had more of an influence on Arya than Cat did. Bran would have been a great choice to come to Kings Landing, because he wanted to and he probably could have formed a friendship, if not with Joffrey, then certainly with Tommen. But having those kids in the city did make Ned vulnerable. It would have been best to bring as few of them as possible in hindsight, but at the time, the decision seems right. Although, Arya does not seem like a fit for Kings Landing!
Sure! I was probably influenced by writing up Catelyn II, where I'd just pondered that question but mostly in that setting. Reading that upsets me every time, and I don't get why the hell he goes down there... Takes a little time to get that out of my system again.
Sansa kinda had to go, as Joff's betrothed. At least as a gesture.
Arya would probably be miserable with only Cat, I too think Ned was the one with the right touch for her, and Jon.
Bran would probably have loved it, with the most notable exeption of Joff. But in the end I suspect he would've been dissapointed like Sansa. He too had his dreams sparkling with a mass of glitter, and those are crushed fast in that town...