Salty trout - dissecting Catelyn II, GOT
Nov 11, 2017 13:16:23 GMT
Wraith, stdaga, and 1 more like this
Post by shymaid on Nov 11, 2017 13:16:23 GMT
From my first read I've felt something was really off in this chapter, and it was one of the first I reread and looked closely at. I've never been shy of expressing my dislike of this character, and a large part of that is down to this chapter. My first reread basically confirmed my initial impression and raised my suspicions for the rest of her arc. I haven't fully figured her out yet, though.
As Wraith was interested in some salty fish, I finally decided to sit down and fully dissect this one. My focus is her manipulation of Ned. So sit down and (try to) relax, as this will be a long one! It's kinda heavy on the salt, so a flagon of wine or water might be advisable to keep handy. And be aware of any pesky fishbones!
I'll divide it in three parts: Ned and the kids, Jon and full crackpot; the latter two probably coming up later today or tomorrow. So, let's see what we can find here!
Part One: Ned and the kids
The first two paragraphs continues from her first chapter, making us aware of how out of place Catelyn is in Winterfell. We see more of her and Ned's differences; we are actually given a picture reminicent of Ice and Fire, in the form of Ice and Very Hot Water. Again Catelyn is dreaming of her old life at Riverrun, with Edmure and Lysa. Is this just a wish to go south again? Or a wish to go back to her childhood and the easy life she had then?
Being plunged from Riverrun and into a sex scene really jarred my nerves on my first read! That came right out of the blue for me, so Martin sets the tone from the start. This will be a bumpy ride...
Taking this abrupt shift into the story, is this an indication of Catelyn thinking of her siblings while her husband is humping her? Unless you are looking at this as a -cest story, that is kinda icky. And even if there is some trace of -cest in there (which I doubt, but the hint is there) dreaming of both your sister and your brother is taking it a bit further.
Even if it's not any -cest here, she still seems very distant from what is happening. I know women can sometimes have other things on their minds in these situations - extreme cases have been hear of - I still find it hard to understand. It makes me wonder about the supposed loving relationship they have, among other hints and clues.
Looking at the underlined words, her disinvestment seems pretty obvious to me. They finish, but it's his lovemaking. She's still happy to take his seed and make another son though, which is odd in it self considering they already have three and two girls as well. We've already seen that too many heirs can be a problem in this world, so why make a football team? I must say that my impression here is that Ned too is a bit cool, as it's layed out as rutine that he just rolls off and goes to the windows. No cuddles after? As we've already been made aware of Ned having problems abiding the heat in here, he might feel like he's melting, and I do keep in mind that we see this from Catelyn's POV which might not be accurate as we will see later. Another interesting note stdaga made in another thread, was that maybe Ned needs cleansing after bedding the fish.
Lastly, 15 years is a long time, but I have trouble getting her meaning here. Is it that the young man she married is but a distand memory, or that these years have been very very long?
What follows we all know: they discuss Robert's offer, Luwin comes with Lysa's letter and it ends with the decision that haunts the rest of our story. It seems rather straight forward, but is it? I think not! This was a set-up from, pardon my french, fuck to finish. Let's take a look!
Really, Catelyn? Why is that?
Now, it does seem like Catelyn has a point here. This is a feudal society with different rules than ours, and Ned himself has doubts through out his chapter of this man that is his king. But as we see towards the end, Ned is right imo! The Robert he knew is still in there, after scratching at the Lannister coating he's been given. So how much of his doubt is from these seeds of doubt that Catelyn sows here? «She had to make him see» By any means necessary?
Also, she practically demands that he ignores his gut feeling of staying where he belongs, and the strong feelings this offer has stirred in him. Considering how measured Ned usually acts this should not be taken lightly I think.
Ah, the truth starts to emerge! Pure ambition! But she forgets who she's married to; Ned isn't interested in that, and he's practically a king in his own right in all but name. Shouldn't that be enough, Catelyn? Your eldest son will inherit after all, with their brothers as bannermen; your daughters will be sought after for marriage. Not a bad deal.
But what is Ned so bitter about?
More truth emerges. This makes me wonder about a couple of things.
How many times have they fought over Brandon? Over what he'd do vs what Ned does?
Has she wanted Ned to live up to her expectations for his brother the last 15 years? We learn later that they were not that much alike, Brandon fiery while Ned was the quiet brother.
Speculation: Was this included in the deal originally made when she was betothed to Brandon? If there was a plan to overthrough the Targaryens, Brandon could've been intended for a high position at court with his Tully wife at his side. Instead she's taken up north with hardly a visit south.
It sounds to me like she had to take the consolation prize that day, 15 long years ago, and he refuses to see what I suspect is common sense to her. But as she's already pointed out herself – the Starks were not like other men. Like kings. And they stand so far apart when the important questions arises, seen by Ned turning his back on her.
Also make note of her interrupting Ned when he tries to say something about Joffrey. Has he seen something that bothers him? I doubt Joffrey put a lot of effort into being nice, based of what we've seen of him. Maybe not a total jerk to their faces, but something's not right in Ned's oppinion. To Catelyn it seems his status as crown prince is the only thing that matters. Many families thinks that, but it sounds like Ned cares about the man his daughter will marry. There Joffrey falls a wee bit short.
Translation: she never got over Brandon, she's never forgiven him for Jon (as we all know, and we'll get back to that later), nor the woman that birthed him. I suspect that Catelyn feels she always was and always will lie between them. So, as she's never gotten over Brandon, is she projecting her own feeling over on Ned? Or does she have legitimate reasons to think he loves someone else still? It almost sounds like Jon is there between them in the bed, horrifying as that thought is. Is her fears of him realistic or a product of her own mind?
From her POV it seems like they will forever be separated by three people, even in their marriage bed.
The knock? Not a knock? And why the need to point out it's unexpected? Was it?
As we now know Ned's rutine in bedding Catelyn, I think it's probable Luwin did too (the whole castle probably did, but that's beside the point). The timing reads awfully like the little grey rat was waiting for Ned to show up in the window before begging a word. He knew of Robert's offer and the trouble that would create between Ned and Cat, he knew they had just been at it, and that is the best time to knock? Really? Add to this Catelyn bringing up his dead brother, and the Ned gets quite distracted.
Something smells, and it get's worse...
A lord sometimes has to recieve bad news at bad times, but here Luwin had a choice, and he chose this specific moment. The note is important, yes, but the other things he says makes it smell like a very bad cheese.
Left during his nap – in other words left during the day. Now night has fallen... He might have spent some time dismanteling the box, but it makes me suspitious. It sounds like he started right away, and it couldn't take that long. So why wait? A timed knock.
Litterary device to highten suspense aside, the roundabout way Luwin takes to his point could easily be a ploy. Catelyn knows his dislike for these things so I bet Luwin did too. We see it working, and as stated we have the initial state of Ned's mind. Keep him off balance seems to be the agenda here.
"Clearly there was more to this than the seeming." Well, obviously...
"A lens is an instrument to help us see." An infinite sea of wisdom, our Cat!
If this isn't a contrived conversation, I don't know what is! It's full cringe, like the worst soap opera you could imagine. How many hours did it take for them to come up with this? Or was it just really bad improv?
Catelyn's dread: we are reminded earlier of the dead direwolf, but could she really be thinking of the note? She's playing off on fear to get Ned to do what she wants, so it's easy to see this as the dread. But really we have no reason to not consider other options. Like this note, as I'm convinced she knew of it before Luwin came knocking.
Ned now gets a facefull of shenanigans with hidden mystery-notes and longwinded ways to the point. Getting him further off center? I think so!
And finally Luwin gets to the point and note, but it's not for him? Oh, come on! That's just being nasty.
Call me a cold-hearted bitch, but this melodrama is way over the top. Catelyn is an emotional woman, in many instances she's even the stereotypical emotionally overboard woman. But even for her this is too much.
Not trusting to speak? Hmmm... Letting the fur drop? Hmmm... Sounds like an act to me. With all the trouble the sender took to have the note delivered, all she can think of is that it contains grief? Seriously? Catelyn is not that stupid, and Ned knows it. And neither is he.
When Luwin wants to leave, it's Ned who wants him to stay. But after 15 years is that so hard to predict that from Ned? What we see later is that many people who have known him far shorter is able to predict his moves.
Lastly, for some reason she has to make note of her nakedness...
Ok, so first she tells them she and Lysa has a private language, and then has to admit she still can read it? Doesn't make sense! And the melo-drama clearly doesn't have an end.
Here it's she who wants Luwin to stay, and again she points out her nakedness...
...because:
She wants to make Ned's head really spin! Like it didn't already? There's a time and place for everything, even when a Lady's nakedness can be ignored. This is not such a time, dear Catelyn. Luwin knows it, Ned knows it, so why doesn't she? It's not like the king's men stand by outside their door and listen for any trace of treason, so why is it so important to get the note in the fire at this very moment? A fire she seldom had to light, as she informs us at the beginning. Rereading this now I noticed that the fire was not mentioned to actually be lit. This could be an author error, but for the sake of argument let's say that it wasn't. In this case, her whole show of padding around naked really stands out! Did she get the reaction she wanted?
Oh yeah! She definitely did! Catelyn usually speaks sharply when she's upset, so that is what we should expect to see if she really is so afraid as she claims. Instead she speaks softly. Making this whole thing into a mummer's farse. As she now has Ned just where she want's him, she reveals that the Lannisters murdered Arryn, spesifically the queen.
In view of Ned's talk with Robert, there seems to be no questions about foul play in Arryn's death, at least officially. He was an older man so it was not unexpected. Ned's shock here is understandable, and as he knows Lysa to some extent his first thought is that she's a bit out of it. Again understandable. So in light of the manipulation we see above, would he have reacted differently if the stage wasn't set so carefully? Probably he would. I don't doubt he'd react to the information, his dislike and distrust of the Lannisters is well known. But by bringing up his dead brother earlier, he's also reminded of what made him react 15 years ago. Then he lost his father and a brother at the hands of a king, this time he's lost a foster father at the hands of a queen. This clearly hightens his emotions! Then she drives home the point by claiming they have no choice, he has to go.
However, does she know her husband as well as she thinks?
Ned has the truth of the matter here, that place is indeed a nest of adders best avoided! But then Luwin steps in to the rescue and uses Ned's weakest points: finding the truth, dispencing justice, and most importantly protecting a woman and child. That's like Ned's kryptonite.
Ah, Ned! They've just totally devestated him!
But Catelyn still isn't satisfied, as she then feels it's needed to use his brotherly feelings towards Robert, the man she just sowed seeds of doubt about remember, to get her victory. Wait, victory? For her children? Wasn't this all to secure their safety, and get justice? And her children, not their children? Game's up right there! I have no possibility to see this as anything else than a total setup from fuck to finish, and again I beg pardon for my french. Yes, Ned! The Others take both of them!
Then we get another hint of Catelyn not really knowing her husband, in my humble oppinion. She thinks he's taking a silent goodbye to Winterfell, but I'm not so sure. As he brings up his father's fate (who were not brought up by Cat earlier, by the way), I think he was taken back to those horrible days and weeks when Aerys sat the throne. I don't see any goodbye here at all, there's no room for it. There might be a different king on the throne now, but essensially the same kind of people surround the new one. Going south to poke in that nest is most certainly not a safe thing to do. So why is this for her children again? You would think she had their safety highest in mind, but her ambition is stronger it seems. A first glimps of how unrealistic she is. She's not stupid and is able to evaluate dangers, but time and time again we'll see her make the dumbest moves that puts her family at great risk. Why is that?
Haha, but here comes the revenge! Yes, I do see it as a revenge. As here we see another motivation for all her carefull plotting: she wants a life at court. She wants to get away from the north and Winterfell. She wants the life her sister got essensially. Again I wonder if there was some plans set for her and Brandon back in the day, that she thought they would live a life at court and with high status. But this is speculation. A simpler solution would be that she imagined that Ned would stay in King's Landing if they won the rebellion, maybe her father suggested it to her? It was probably obvious that Arryn would do that, the Handship was probably already his early on, so why would it be any different with Ned? But she'd married the quiet wolf, not the wild wolf. That life was not for him, and so not for her.
That icy draft is curious. Is it her reaction to his words? Is it a restless ghost that dislikes her chasing of the Lord of Winterfell? Or is it a premonition? There has been suggestions that Catelyn has the sight from her Whent and Lothson blood, and that might be the case. I see the possibility for her having a feeling or something about this, either before or at this moment or even both, and this could be driving her actions. Ambition is clarely a large part as well, but I can't ignore this option.
But what if it was her own reaction? If so, why does she think she'll not see him again? This path is the darker path in the case of Catelyn for sure, as the implications there is grim to say the least. In short, Ned was going to die down there and she knew it, so the question becomes if she wanted it or not. But I'll save that for the crackpot below.
So she wants Ned to do her bidding by ignoring all his instincts and play the game, but when it comes to drink from that cup herself she can not bear it? What a hypocrite! Did she think Ned would leave Winterfell in the hands of a castellan while they all went south? Again I'm struck by how little she knows Ned! I presume she's heard that there must always be a Stark at Winterfell plenty of times, as that seems like the second words of that house. It sounds like she's blinded by her own background and southron thinking, not taking into consideration that the Starks are northmen. Not like other men.
How she think she has to let go of them in her heart and will lose them is odd. Being separated isn't losing anyone, it's not like there is no way for them to meet later. Which leads me back to the thought of a premonition. But that doesn't really make sense either. If it's so dangerous to go south, why does she want allof them to go? If she thinks the danger lies in the separation, why is she reluctant but in the end willing to let Ned and the girls to go? Is she willing to sacrifice them as long as Bran is safe? Considering her fear of Bran falling I understand her need to keep him safe, but her argument that he's so young is so obviously a bad one it hurts. Her husband is the man who thinks their three-year-old needs to face his fears, so why on earth does she thinks that's an argument for their seven-year-old not to follow his own father to the capital? Seriously, I can not understand this woman's thinking!
However, I have no doubt this was a clear set-up as stated before.
End part one.
As Wraith was interested in some salty fish, I finally decided to sit down and fully dissect this one. My focus is her manipulation of Ned. So sit down and (try to) relax, as this will be a long one! It's kinda heavy on the salt, so a flagon of wine or water might be advisable to keep handy. And be aware of any pesky fishbones!
I'll divide it in three parts: Ned and the kids, Jon and full crackpot; the latter two probably coming up later today or tomorrow. So, let's see what we can find here!
Part One: Ned and the kids
The first two paragraphs continues from her first chapter, making us aware of how out of place Catelyn is in Winterfell. We see more of her and Ned's differences; we are actually given a picture reminicent of Ice and Fire, in the form of Ice and Very Hot Water. Again Catelyn is dreaming of her old life at Riverrun, with Edmure and Lysa. Is this just a wish to go south again? Or a wish to go back to her childhood and the easy life she had then?
So when they had finished, Ned rolled off and climbed from her bed, as he had a thousand times before. He crossed the room, pulled back the heavy tapestries, and threw open the high narrow windows one by one, letting the night air into the chamber.
Being plunged from Riverrun and into a sex scene really jarred my nerves on my first read! That came right out of the blue for me, so Martin sets the tone from the start. This will be a bumpy ride...
Taking this abrupt shift into the story, is this an indication of Catelyn thinking of her siblings while her husband is humping her? Unless you are looking at this as a -cest story, that is kinda icky. And even if there is some trace of -cest in there (which I doubt, but the hint is there) dreaming of both your sister and your brother is taking it a bit further.
Even if it's not any -cest here, she still seems very distant from what is happening. I know women can sometimes have other things on their minds in these situations - extreme cases have been hear of - I still find it hard to understand. It makes me wonder about the supposed loving relationship they have, among other hints and clues.
So when they had finished, Ned rolled off and climbed from her bed, as he had a thousand times before. He crossed the room, pulled back the heavy tapestries, and threw open the high narrow windows one by one, letting the night air into the chamber.
The wind swirled around him as he stood facing the dark, naked and empty-handed. Catelyn pulled the furs to her chin and watched him. He looked somehow smaller and more vulnerable, like the youth she had wed in the sept at Riverrun, fifteen long years gone. Her loins still ached from the urgency of his lovemaking. It was a good ache. She could feel his seed within her. She prayed that it might quicken there. It had been three years since Rickon. She was not too old. She could give him another son.
The wind swirled around him as he stood facing the dark, naked and empty-handed. Catelyn pulled the furs to her chin and watched him. He looked somehow smaller and more vulnerable, like the youth she had wed in the sept at Riverrun, fifteen long years gone. Her loins still ached from the urgency of his lovemaking. It was a good ache. She could feel his seed within her. She prayed that it might quicken there. It had been three years since Rickon. She was not too old. She could give him another son.
Looking at the underlined words, her disinvestment seems pretty obvious to me. They finish, but it's his lovemaking. She's still happy to take his seed and make another son though, which is odd in it self considering they already have three and two girls as well. We've already seen that too many heirs can be a problem in this world, so why make a football team? I must say that my impression here is that Ned too is a bit cool, as it's layed out as rutine that he just rolls off and goes to the windows. No cuddles after? As we've already been made aware of Ned having problems abiding the heat in here, he might feel like he's melting, and I do keep in mind that we see this from Catelyn's POV which might not be accurate as we will see later. Another interesting note stdaga made in another thread, was that maybe Ned needs cleansing after bedding the fish.
Lastly, 15 years is a long time, but I have trouble getting her meaning here. Is it that the young man she married is but a distand memory, or that these years have been very very long?
What follows we all know: they discuss Robert's offer, Luwin comes with Lysa's letter and it ends with the decision that haunts the rest of our story. It seems rather straight forward, but is it? I think not! This was a set-up from, pardon my french, fuck to finish. Let's take a look!
"I will refuse him," Ned said as he turned back to her. His eyes were haunted, his voice thick with doubt.
Catelyn sat up in the bed. "You cannot. You must not."
Catelyn sat up in the bed. "You cannot. You must not."
Really, Catelyn? Why is that?
"My duties are here in the north. I have no wish to be Robert's Hand."
"He will not understand that. He is a king now, and kings are not like other men. If you refuse to serve him, he will wonder why, and sooner or later he will begin to suspect that you oppose him. Can't you see the danger that would put us in?"
Ned shook his head, refusing to believe. "Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man!"
"You knew the man," she said. "The king is a stranger to you." Catelyn remembered the direwolf dead in the snow, the broken antler lodged deep in her throat. She had to make him see. "Pride is everything to a king, my lord. Robert came all this way to see you, to bring you these great honors, you cannot throw them back in his face."
"He will not understand that. He is a king now, and kings are not like other men. If you refuse to serve him, he will wonder why, and sooner or later he will begin to suspect that you oppose him. Can't you see the danger that would put us in?"
Ned shook his head, refusing to believe. "Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man!"
"You knew the man," she said. "The king is a stranger to you." Catelyn remembered the direwolf dead in the snow, the broken antler lodged deep in her throat. She had to make him see. "Pride is everything to a king, my lord. Robert came all this way to see you, to bring you these great honors, you cannot throw them back in his face."
Now, it does seem like Catelyn has a point here. This is a feudal society with different rules than ours, and Ned himself has doubts through out his chapter of this man that is his king. But as we see towards the end, Ned is right imo! The Robert he knew is still in there, after scratching at the Lannister coating he's been given. So how much of his doubt is from these seeds of doubt that Catelyn sows here? «She had to make him see» By any means necessary?
Also, she practically demands that he ignores his gut feeling of staying where he belongs, and the strong feelings this offer has stirred in him. Considering how measured Ned usually acts this should not be taken lightly I think.
"Honors?" Ned laughed bitterly.
"In his eyes, yes," she said.
"And in yours?"
"And in mine," she blazed, angry now. Why couldn't he see? "He offers his own son in marriage to our daughter, what else would you call that? Sansa might someday be queen. Her sons could rule from the Wall to the mountains of Dorne. What is so wrong with that?"
"In his eyes, yes," she said.
"And in yours?"
"And in mine," she blazed, angry now. Why couldn't he see? "He offers his own son in marriage to our daughter, what else would you call that? Sansa might someday be queen. Her sons could rule from the Wall to the mountains of Dorne. What is so wrong with that?"
Ah, the truth starts to emerge! Pure ambition! But she forgets who she's married to; Ned isn't interested in that, and he's practically a king in his own right in all but name. Shouldn't that be enough, Catelyn? Your eldest son will inherit after all, with their brothers as bannermen; your daughters will be sought after for marriage. Not a bad deal.
But what is Ned so bitter about?
"Gods, Catelyn, Sansa is only eleven," Ned said. "And Joffrey … Joffrey is …"
She finished for him. "… crown prince, and heir to the Iron Throne. And I was only twelve when my father promised me to your brother Brandon."
That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me."
"Perhaps not," Catelyn said, "but Brandon is dead, and the cup has passed, and you must drink from it, like it or not."
Ned turned away from her, back to the night. He stood staring out in the darkness, watching the moon and the stars perhaps, or perhaps the sentries on the wall.
She finished for him. "… crown prince, and heir to the Iron Throne. And I was only twelve when my father promised me to your brother Brandon."
That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me."
"Perhaps not," Catelyn said, "but Brandon is dead, and the cup has passed, and you must drink from it, like it or not."
Ned turned away from her, back to the night. He stood staring out in the darkness, watching the moon and the stars perhaps, or perhaps the sentries on the wall.
More truth emerges. This makes me wonder about a couple of things.
How many times have they fought over Brandon? Over what he'd do vs what Ned does?
Has she wanted Ned to live up to her expectations for his brother the last 15 years? We learn later that they were not that much alike, Brandon fiery while Ned was the quiet brother.
Speculation: Was this included in the deal originally made when she was betothed to Brandon? If there was a plan to overthrough the Targaryens, Brandon could've been intended for a high position at court with his Tully wife at his side. Instead she's taken up north with hardly a visit south.
It sounds to me like she had to take the consolation prize that day, 15 long years ago, and he refuses to see what I suspect is common sense to her. But as she's already pointed out herself – the Starks were not like other men. Like kings. And they stand so far apart when the important questions arises, seen by Ned turning his back on her.
Also make note of her interrupting Ned when he tries to say something about Joffrey. Has he seen something that bothers him? I doubt Joffrey put a lot of effort into being nice, based of what we've seen of him. Maybe not a total jerk to their faces, but something's not right in Ned's oppinion. To Catelyn it seems his status as crown prince is the only thing that matters. Many families thinks that, but it sounds like Ned cares about the man his daughter will marry. There Joffrey falls a wee bit short.
Catelyn softened then, to see his pain. Eddard Stark had married her in Brandon's place, as custom decreed, but the shadow of his dead brother still lay between them, as did the other, the shadow of the woman he would not name, the woman who had borne him his bastard son.
Translation: she never got over Brandon, she's never forgiven him for Jon (as we all know, and we'll get back to that later), nor the woman that birthed him. I suspect that Catelyn feels she always was and always will lie between them. So, as she's never gotten over Brandon, is she projecting her own feeling over on Ned? Or does she have legitimate reasons to think he loves someone else still? It almost sounds like Jon is there between them in the bed, horrifying as that thought is. Is her fears of him realistic or a product of her own mind?
From her POV it seems like they will forever be separated by three people, even in their marriage bed.
She was about to go to him when the knock came at the door, loud and unexpected. Ned turned, frowning. "What is it?"
The knock? Not a knock? And why the need to point out it's unexpected? Was it?
As we now know Ned's rutine in bedding Catelyn, I think it's probable Luwin did too (the whole castle probably did, but that's beside the point). The timing reads awfully like the little grey rat was waiting for Ned to show up in the window before begging a word. He knew of Robert's offer and the trouble that would create between Ned and Cat, he knew they had just been at it, and that is the best time to knock? Really? Add to this Catelyn bringing up his dead brother, and the Ned gets quite distracted.
Ned crossed to the wardrobe and slipped on a heavy robe. Catelyn realized suddenly how cold it had become. She sat up in bed and pulled the furs to her chin. "Perhaps we should close the windows," she suggested.
Ned nodded absently. Maester Luwin was shown in.
Ned nodded absently. Maester Luwin was shown in.
Something smells, and it get's worse...
The maester waited until the door had closed behind him before he spoke. "My lord," he said to Ned, "pardon for disturbing your rest. I have been left a message."
Ned looked irritated. "Been left? By whom? Has there been a rider? I was not told."
"There was no rider, my lord. Only a carved wooden box, left on a table in my observatory while I napped. My servants saw no one, but it must have been brought by someone in the king's party. We have had no other visitors from the south."
"A wooden box, you say?" Catelyn said.
"Inside was a fine new lens for the observatory, from Myr by the look of it. The lenscrafters of Myr are without equal."
Ned frowned. He had little patience for this sort of thing, Catelyn knew. "A lens," he said. "What has that to do with me?"
"I asked the same question," Maester Luwin said. "Clearly there was more to this than the seeming."
Under the heavy weight of her furs, Catelyn shivered. "A lens is an instrument to help us see."
"Indeed it is." He fingered the collar of his order; a heavy chain worn tight around the neck beneath his robe, each link forged from a different metal.
Catelyn could feel dread stirring inside her once again. "What is it that they would have us see more clearly?"
"The very thing I asked myself." Maester Luwin drew a tightly rolled paper out of his sleeve. "I found the true message concealed within a false bottom when I dismantled the box the lens had come in, but it is not for my eyes."
Ned held out his hand. "Let me have it, then."
Luwin did not stir. "Pardons, my lord. The message is not for you either. It is marked for the eyes of the Lady Catelyn, and her alone. May I approach?"
Ned looked irritated. "Been left? By whom? Has there been a rider? I was not told."
"There was no rider, my lord. Only a carved wooden box, left on a table in my observatory while I napped. My servants saw no one, but it must have been brought by someone in the king's party. We have had no other visitors from the south."
"A wooden box, you say?" Catelyn said.
"Inside was a fine new lens for the observatory, from Myr by the look of it. The lenscrafters of Myr are without equal."
Ned frowned. He had little patience for this sort of thing, Catelyn knew. "A lens," he said. "What has that to do with me?"
"I asked the same question," Maester Luwin said. "Clearly there was more to this than the seeming."
Under the heavy weight of her furs, Catelyn shivered. "A lens is an instrument to help us see."
"Indeed it is." He fingered the collar of his order; a heavy chain worn tight around the neck beneath his robe, each link forged from a different metal.
Catelyn could feel dread stirring inside her once again. "What is it that they would have us see more clearly?"
"The very thing I asked myself." Maester Luwin drew a tightly rolled paper out of his sleeve. "I found the true message concealed within a false bottom when I dismantled the box the lens had come in, but it is not for my eyes."
Ned held out his hand. "Let me have it, then."
Luwin did not stir. "Pardons, my lord. The message is not for you either. It is marked for the eyes of the Lady Catelyn, and her alone. May I approach?"
A lord sometimes has to recieve bad news at bad times, but here Luwin had a choice, and he chose this specific moment. The note is important, yes, but the other things he says makes it smell like a very bad cheese.
Left during his nap – in other words left during the day. Now night has fallen... He might have spent some time dismanteling the box, but it makes me suspitious. It sounds like he started right away, and it couldn't take that long. So why wait? A timed knock.
Litterary device to highten suspense aside, the roundabout way Luwin takes to his point could easily be a ploy. Catelyn knows his dislike for these things so I bet Luwin did too. We see it working, and as stated we have the initial state of Ned's mind. Keep him off balance seems to be the agenda here.
"Clearly there was more to this than the seeming." Well, obviously...
"A lens is an instrument to help us see." An infinite sea of wisdom, our Cat!
If this isn't a contrived conversation, I don't know what is! It's full cringe, like the worst soap opera you could imagine. How many hours did it take for them to come up with this? Or was it just really bad improv?
Catelyn's dread: we are reminded earlier of the dead direwolf, but could she really be thinking of the note? She's playing off on fear to get Ned to do what she wants, so it's easy to see this as the dread. But really we have no reason to not consider other options. Like this note, as I'm convinced she knew of it before Luwin came knocking.
Ned now gets a facefull of shenanigans with hidden mystery-notes and longwinded ways to the point. Getting him further off center? I think so!
And finally Luwin gets to the point and note, but it's not for him? Oh, come on! That's just being nasty.
Catelyn nodded, not trusting to speak. The maester placed the paper on the table beside the bed. It was sealed with a small blob of blue wax. Luwin bowed and began to retreat.
"Stay," Ned commanded him. His voice was grave. He looked at Catelyn. "What is it? My lady, you're shaking."
"I'm afraid," she admitted. She reached out and took the letter in trembling hands. The furs dropped away from her nakedness, forgotten. In the blue wax was the moon-and-falcon seal of House Arryn. "It's from Lysa." Catelyn looked at her husband. "It will not make us glad," she told him. "There is grief in this message, Ned. I can feel it."
Ned frowned, his face darkening. "Open it."
"Stay," Ned commanded him. His voice was grave. He looked at Catelyn. "What is it? My lady, you're shaking."
"I'm afraid," she admitted. She reached out and took the letter in trembling hands. The furs dropped away from her nakedness, forgotten. In the blue wax was the moon-and-falcon seal of House Arryn. "It's from Lysa." Catelyn looked at her husband. "It will not make us glad," she told him. "There is grief in this message, Ned. I can feel it."
Ned frowned, his face darkening. "Open it."
Call me a cold-hearted bitch, but this melodrama is way over the top. Catelyn is an emotional woman, in many instances she's even the stereotypical emotionally overboard woman. But even for her this is too much.
Not trusting to speak? Hmmm... Letting the fur drop? Hmmm... Sounds like an act to me. With all the trouble the sender took to have the note delivered, all she can think of is that it contains grief? Seriously? Catelyn is not that stupid, and Ned knows it. And neither is he.
When Luwin wants to leave, it's Ned who wants him to stay. But after 15 years is that so hard to predict that from Ned? What we see later is that many people who have known him far shorter is able to predict his moves.
Lastly, for some reason she has to make note of her nakedness...
Catelyn broke the seal.
Her eyes moved over the words. At first they made no sense to her. Then she remembered. "Lysa took no chances. When we were girls together, we had a private language, she and I."
"Can you read it?"
"Yes," Catelyn admitted.
"Then tell us."
"Perhaps I should withdraw," Maester Luwin said.
"No," Catelyn said. "We will need your counsel." She threw back the furs and climbed from the bed. The night air was as cold as the grave on her bare skin as she padded across the room.
Her eyes moved over the words. At first they made no sense to her. Then she remembered. "Lysa took no chances. When we were girls together, we had a private language, she and I."
"Can you read it?"
"Yes," Catelyn admitted.
"Then tell us."
"Perhaps I should withdraw," Maester Luwin said.
"No," Catelyn said. "We will need your counsel." She threw back the furs and climbed from the bed. The night air was as cold as the grave on her bare skin as she padded across the room.
Ok, so first she tells them she and Lysa has a private language, and then has to admit she still can read it? Doesn't make sense! And the melo-drama clearly doesn't have an end.
Here it's she who wants Luwin to stay, and again she points out her nakedness...
...because:
Maester Luwin averted his eyes. Even Ned looked shocked. "What are you doing?" he asked.
"Lighting a fire," Catelyn told him. She found a dressing gown and shrugged into it, then knelt over the cold hearth.
"Maester Luwin—" Ned began.
"Maester Luwin has delivered all my children," Catelyn said. "This is no time for false modesty." She slid the paper in among the kindling and placed the heavier logs on top of it.
"Lighting a fire," Catelyn told him. She found a dressing gown and shrugged into it, then knelt over the cold hearth.
"Maester Luwin—" Ned began.
"Maester Luwin has delivered all my children," Catelyn said. "This is no time for false modesty." She slid the paper in among the kindling and placed the heavier logs on top of it.
She wants to make Ned's head really spin! Like it didn't already? There's a time and place for everything, even when a Lady's nakedness can be ignored. This is not such a time, dear Catelyn. Luwin knows it, Ned knows it, so why doesn't she? It's not like the king's men stand by outside their door and listen for any trace of treason, so why is it so important to get the note in the fire at this very moment? A fire she seldom had to light, as she informs us at the beginning. Rereading this now I noticed that the fire was not mentioned to actually be lit. This could be an author error, but for the sake of argument let's say that it wasn't. In this case, her whole show of padding around naked really stands out! Did she get the reaction she wanted?
Ned crossed the room, took her by the arm, and pulled her to her feet. He held her there, his face inches from her. "My lady, tell me! What was this message?"
Catelyn stiffened in his grasp. "A warning," she said softly. "If we have the wits to hear."
Catelyn stiffened in his grasp. "A warning," she said softly. "If we have the wits to hear."
Oh yeah! She definitely did! Catelyn usually speaks sharply when she's upset, so that is what we should expect to see if she really is so afraid as she claims. Instead she speaks softly. Making this whole thing into a mummer's farse. As she now has Ned just where she want's him, she reveals that the Lannisters murdered Arryn, spesifically the queen.
Ned released his hold on her arm. There were deep red marks on her skin. "Gods," he whispered. His voice was hoarse. "Your sister is sick with grief. She cannot know what she is saying."
"She knows," Catelyn said. "Lysa is impulsive, yes, but this message was carefully planned, cleverly hidden. She knew it meant death if her letter fell into the wrong hands. To risk so much, she must have had more than mere suspicion." Catelyn looked to her husband. "Now we truly have no choice. You must be Robert's Hand. You must go south with him and learn the truth."
"She knows," Catelyn said. "Lysa is impulsive, yes, but this message was carefully planned, cleverly hidden. She knew it meant death if her letter fell into the wrong hands. To risk so much, she must have had more than mere suspicion." Catelyn looked to her husband. "Now we truly have no choice. You must be Robert's Hand. You must go south with him and learn the truth."
In view of Ned's talk with Robert, there seems to be no questions about foul play in Arryn's death, at least officially. He was an older man so it was not unexpected. Ned's shock here is understandable, and as he knows Lysa to some extent his first thought is that she's a bit out of it. Again understandable. So in light of the manipulation we see above, would he have reacted differently if the stage wasn't set so carefully? Probably he would. I don't doubt he'd react to the information, his dislike and distrust of the Lannisters is well known. But by bringing up his dead brother earlier, he's also reminded of what made him react 15 years ago. Then he lost his father and a brother at the hands of a king, this time he's lost a foster father at the hands of a queen. This clearly hightens his emotions! Then she drives home the point by claiming they have no choice, he has to go.
However, does she know her husband as well as she thinks?
She saw at once that Ned had reached a very different conclusion. "The only truths I know are here. The south is a nest of adders I would do better to avoid."
Luwin plucked at his chain collar where it had chafed the soft skin of his throat. "The Hand of the King has great power, my lord. Power to find the truth of Lord Arryn's death, to bring his killers to the king's justice. Power to protect Lady Arryn and her son, if the worst be true."
Luwin plucked at his chain collar where it had chafed the soft skin of his throat. "The Hand of the King has great power, my lord. Power to find the truth of Lord Arryn's death, to bring his killers to the king's justice. Power to protect Lady Arryn and her son, if the worst be true."
Ned has the truth of the matter here, that place is indeed a nest of adders best avoided! But then Luwin steps in to the rescue and uses Ned's weakest points: finding the truth, dispencing justice, and most importantly protecting a woman and child. That's like Ned's kryptonite.
Ned glanced helplessly around the bedchamber. Catelyn's heart went out to him, but she knew she could not take him in her arms just then. First the victory must be won, for her children's sake. "You say you love Robert like a brother. Would you leave your brother surrounded by Lannisters?"
"The Others take both of you," Ned muttered darkly. He turned away from them and went to the window. She did not speak, nor did the maester. They waited, quiet, while Eddard Stark said a silent farewell to the home he loved. When he turned away from the window at last, his voice was tired and full of melancholy, and moisture glittered faintly in the corners of his eyes. "My father went south once, to answer the summons of a king. He never came home again."
"A different time," Maester Luwin said. "A different king."
"The Others take both of you," Ned muttered darkly. He turned away from them and went to the window. She did not speak, nor did the maester. They waited, quiet, while Eddard Stark said a silent farewell to the home he loved. When he turned away from the window at last, his voice was tired and full of melancholy, and moisture glittered faintly in the corners of his eyes. "My father went south once, to answer the summons of a king. He never came home again."
"A different time," Maester Luwin said. "A different king."
Ah, Ned! They've just totally devestated him!
But Catelyn still isn't satisfied, as she then feels it's needed to use his brotherly feelings towards Robert, the man she just sowed seeds of doubt about remember, to get her victory. Wait, victory? For her children? Wasn't this all to secure their safety, and get justice? And her children, not their children? Game's up right there! I have no possibility to see this as anything else than a total setup from fuck to finish, and again I beg pardon for my french. Yes, Ned! The Others take both of them!
Then we get another hint of Catelyn not really knowing her husband, in my humble oppinion. She thinks he's taking a silent goodbye to Winterfell, but I'm not so sure. As he brings up his father's fate (who were not brought up by Cat earlier, by the way), I think he was taken back to those horrible days and weeks when Aerys sat the throne. I don't see any goodbye here at all, there's no room for it. There might be a different king on the throne now, but essensially the same kind of people surround the new one. Going south to poke in that nest is most certainly not a safe thing to do. So why is this for her children again? You would think she had their safety highest in mind, but her ambition is stronger it seems. A first glimps of how unrealistic she is. She's not stupid and is able to evaluate dangers, but time and time again we'll see her make the dumbest moves that puts her family at great risk. Why is that?
"Yes," Ned said dully. He seated himself in a chair by the hearth. "Catelyn, you shall stay here in Winterfell."
Haha, but here comes the revenge! Yes, I do see it as a revenge. As here we see another motivation for all her carefull plotting: she wants a life at court. She wants to get away from the north and Winterfell. She wants the life her sister got essensially. Again I wonder if there was some plans set for her and Brandon back in the day, that she thought they would live a life at court and with high status. But this is speculation. A simpler solution would be that she imagined that Ned would stay in King's Landing if they won the rebellion, maybe her father suggested it to her? It was probably obvious that Arryn would do that, the Handship was probably already his early on, so why would it be any different with Ned? But she'd married the quiet wolf, not the wild wolf. That life was not for him, and so not for her.
His words were like an icy draft through her heart. "No," she said, suddenly afraid. Was this to be her punishment? Never to see his face again, nor to feel his arms around her?
That icy draft is curious. Is it her reaction to his words? Is it a restless ghost that dislikes her chasing of the Lord of Winterfell? Or is it a premonition? There has been suggestions that Catelyn has the sight from her Whent and Lothson blood, and that might be the case. I see the possibility for her having a feeling or something about this, either before or at this moment or even both, and this could be driving her actions. Ambition is clarely a large part as well, but I can't ignore this option.
But what if it was her own reaction? If so, why does she think she'll not see him again? This path is the darker path in the case of Catelyn for sure, as the implications there is grim to say the least. In short, Ned was going to die down there and she knew it, so the question becomes if she wanted it or not. But I'll save that for the crackpot below.
"Yes," Ned said, in words that would brook no argument. "You must govern the north in my stead, while I run Robert's errands. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell. Robb is fourteen. Soon enough, he will be a man grown. He must learn to rule, and I will not be here for him. Make him part of your councils. He must be ready when his time comes."
"Gods will, not for many years," Maester Luwin murmured.
"Maester Luwin, I trust you as I would my own blood. Give my wife your voice in all things great and small. Teach my son the things he needs to know. Winter is coming."
Maester Luwin nodded gravely. Then silence fell, until Catelyn found her courage and asked the question whose answer she most dreaded. "What of the other children?"
Ned stood, and took her in his arms, and held her face close to his. "Rickon is very young," he said gently. "He should stay here with you and Robb. The others I would take with me."
"I could not bear it," Catelyn said, trembling.
"You must," he said. "Sansa must wed Joffrey, that is clear now, we must give them no grounds to suspect our devotion. And it is past time that Arya learned the ways of a southron court. In a few years she will be of an age to marry too."
Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. Reluctantly, she let go of them in her heart. But not Bran. Never Bran. "Yes," she said, "but please, Ned, for the love you bear me, let Bran remain here at Winterfell. He is only seven."
"I was eight when my father sent me to foster at the Eyrie," Ned said. "Ser Rodrik tells me there is bad feeling between Robb and Prince Joffrey. That is not healthy. Bran can bridge that distance. He is a sweet boy, quick to laugh, easy to love. Let him grow up with the young princes, let him become their friend as Robert became mine. Our House will be the safer for it."
He was right; Catelyn knew it. It did not make the pain any easier to bear. She would lose all four of them, then: Ned, and both girls, and her sweet, loving Bran. Only Robb and little Rickon would be left to her. She felt lonely already. Winterfell was such a vast place. "Keep him off the walls, then," she said bravely. "You know how Bran loves to climb."
"Gods will, not for many years," Maester Luwin murmured.
"Maester Luwin, I trust you as I would my own blood. Give my wife your voice in all things great and small. Teach my son the things he needs to know. Winter is coming."
Maester Luwin nodded gravely. Then silence fell, until Catelyn found her courage and asked the question whose answer she most dreaded. "What of the other children?"
Ned stood, and took her in his arms, and held her face close to his. "Rickon is very young," he said gently. "He should stay here with you and Robb. The others I would take with me."
"I could not bear it," Catelyn said, trembling.
"You must," he said. "Sansa must wed Joffrey, that is clear now, we must give them no grounds to suspect our devotion. And it is past time that Arya learned the ways of a southron court. In a few years she will be of an age to marry too."
Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. Reluctantly, she let go of them in her heart. But not Bran. Never Bran. "Yes," she said, "but please, Ned, for the love you bear me, let Bran remain here at Winterfell. He is only seven."
"I was eight when my father sent me to foster at the Eyrie," Ned said. "Ser Rodrik tells me there is bad feeling between Robb and Prince Joffrey. That is not healthy. Bran can bridge that distance. He is a sweet boy, quick to laugh, easy to love. Let him grow up with the young princes, let him become their friend as Robert became mine. Our House will be the safer for it."
He was right; Catelyn knew it. It did not make the pain any easier to bear. She would lose all four of them, then: Ned, and both girls, and her sweet, loving Bran. Only Robb and little Rickon would be left to her. She felt lonely already. Winterfell was such a vast place. "Keep him off the walls, then," she said bravely. "You know how Bran loves to climb."
So she wants Ned to do her bidding by ignoring all his instincts and play the game, but when it comes to drink from that cup herself she can not bear it? What a hypocrite! Did she think Ned would leave Winterfell in the hands of a castellan while they all went south? Again I'm struck by how little she knows Ned! I presume she's heard that there must always be a Stark at Winterfell plenty of times, as that seems like the second words of that house. It sounds like she's blinded by her own background and southron thinking, not taking into consideration that the Starks are northmen. Not like other men.
How she think she has to let go of them in her heart and will lose them is odd. Being separated isn't losing anyone, it's not like there is no way for them to meet later. Which leads me back to the thought of a premonition. But that doesn't really make sense either. If it's so dangerous to go south, why does she want allof them to go? If she thinks the danger lies in the separation, why is she reluctant but in the end willing to let Ned and the girls to go? Is she willing to sacrifice them as long as Bran is safe? Considering her fear of Bran falling I understand her need to keep him safe, but her argument that he's so young is so obviously a bad one it hurts. Her husband is the man who thinks their three-year-old needs to face his fears, so why on earth does she thinks that's an argument for their seven-year-old not to follow his own father to the capital? Seriously, I can not understand this woman's thinking!
However, I have no doubt this was a clear set-up as stated before.
End part one.