Post by stdaga on Nov 13, 2017 10:07:37 GMT
Yeah, and the part about her children ruling from the Wall to Dorne... It just made me think of Jon, and that he'd be under the thumb of her grandkids or something. No way for him to usurp anything from her kids! But that is in part from all the speculations of Jon being born in Starfall and all those things, so in a way Dorne makes me think of Jon.
Actually, this is a nice connection, if Jon was born in Dorne, and has a Dayne parent (either Ashara or Arthur) and a Stark parent (Lyanna, Ned, Brandon are most likely), Catelyn's choice of words do have greater meaning. The wall borders the farthest north, and Starfall lies farthest south. So, it does hint at Jon and his birth, and Catelyn wanting a child to rule from Dorne to the wall, pretty much cover Jon's parentage completely. I am still not convinced Jon was born in the south, though. Of course, I am prepared to be wrong. But Cat might think he was.
But this isn't just any other night. They have big decisions to make that could be distracting, but more importantly Ned is having a difficult time. I might be a bit subjective here, but I'd say that warrants some more investment under the furs as that's what would be natural to me. She goes on about how much she loves him with all her heart, but it doesn't sound like she tried to comfort him here, and that makes me wonder. She let him do as he pleased and satisfy his needs, but not much more.
I never looked at the night in this way, but it certainly is different than most nights they have probably shared. The king is in Winterfell and wants Ned to come south and be hand. Actually, I am a but surprised they didn't talk about this before. But maybe she distracted him with sex, or he tried to distract her. I am not sold on Ned being any more invested in the sex than Cat seems to be. For all we know, Ned's mind had wandered plenty during the act.
I agree on this as well, just not the part about saying goodbye. My impression is that he's haunted by what happened around the rebellion, and I don't have a problem with him knowing he would never return. I think that realization would fill him to the point of saying goodbye at a later point. The last time he turns to the window here is where I see that realization finally sinks in. A goodbye comes last, so not on page imo.
I'm not sold on Ned saying goodbye at this point either. That is just Cat's interpretation of what he must be doing while staring out the window into the night. She could be very wrong about Ned's thoughts at this time. Bran's thoughts about Ned telling him to make his goodbyes the day before they were to leave, makes me think that is how Ned probably did it too. But Ned went on a hunt instead. Was it also to hard for Ned to say his goodbyes to Winterfell and it's people. It was hard for Jon, too!
As to being haunted by the rebellion, I just reread the scene were Jaime's men attack Ned and his three men in the streets. Ned's reaction to Jaime's command to "kill his men" is visceral, instinctual, gut-wrenching. Ned screams "No" and he claws at his sword. Screaming and clawing to me indicates that he has lost his cool and all of his actions are completely instinctual. And he fights like a demon until his horse goes down and breaks his leg. (I really want to know if that horse was red?). After, he was alone with his dead, he drags himself in agony through the mud and is found holding Jory in his arms. This makes me wonder just what happened at the toj. Could something similar have happened? The numbers and rolls seem reversed, but I think that it's not a coincidence that the next POV we get of Ned, he is dreaming an old dream, of a tower long fallen, etc. The rebellion has most definitely left scars on and in Ned Stark.
Robert is changed, but I don't get the feeling that he would punish Ned and the Starks in that way. Sever ties yes, but not cutting them all the way down. That's not really Robert, and if Ned stays in the north and minds his own business as he had so far I'd think the Lannisters would leave him be. They might have some plans if he did do something, but why act if nothing is done?
It's possible that Robert could not take the north from the Starks because the north would not allow it to happen. I would think if Robert tried, most of the people in the north would rally around the Starks, and the kingdom would be embroiled in a civil war. And we know that the north is almost impossible to invade from the south, is protected on the north by the wall, leaving them vulnerable to a fleet from either the east or west. Imagine Stannis with Robert's fleet, determined to succeed, even if he hates what he his being made to do. It would rip the country apart. I am sure no one would have wanted to attempt that. So, maybe Robert would not have have tried to take the north, but Cat and Ned both seem to think that they can give Robert no reason to doubt them, so they must have some fear of the crown.
This hit me while I was writing it down, didn't think about it either until now. I got the feeling that Brandon's beed a thorn in their relationship in more ways than I first thought. Could be wrong, of course.
It is very possible I suppose that Catelyn thinks of Brandon and dreams of what her marriage to Brandon might have been like as much as Cersei thinks of Rhaegar, and dreams of her marriage to him. And we know that Cersei hates Robert for killing Rhaegar, so does that connection follow to Cat and Ned? Does part of Catelyn hate Ned for not being the man she wanted to marry? It's possible, although I don't get this impression from her that she hates Ned. She seems to think of him fondly, and seems to feel sorrow at his death. Her last thoughts are of Ned, not Brandon. I wonder what Cersei's last thoughts might be of? Probably not Robert.
And she notes that he puts on a robe.
It is. The letter in itself is meant to cause a reaction. The way it's content is delivered to Ned hightens it. Making it possible to stear his movements.
Maybe the letter contains a threat to Catelyn, that only Lysa might know. For instance, if Cat was pregnant with Brandon's child when she married Ned, Lysa would probably know that. Could the letter have contained a threat to reveal that truth if Cat doesn't orchestrate Ned to coming south. But then, that idea doesn't really work with Cat and Lysa's first meeting in the Eryie, so I am probably way off base. Also, I think that all the kids who got direwolves are Ned's children, so that doesn't work if Robb is Brandon's son. But, it doesn't need to be true to be a threat, and maybe Cat feared that Ned might believe such a thing about her and Brandon. Hmmm! A threat doesn't need to be true to be frightening and controlling. I need to consider this more. Though I don't really see Catelyn as a victim in this scene. She is the aggressor.
How much do you think these two voices sounded? She mentions the one time he really scared her, his fury doesn't seem to bother her overmuch, but what he says that will brook no arguments makes her give up right there and then? Methinks it frighteningly similar! That is the Ned she fears.
Maybe so!
She fears she'll never see Ned or the girls again - she sees Ned but not the girls.
She more or less refuses to be separated from Bran (including her prayers here, that was answered), she fears for his life. He falls - survives - she leaves and never see him again.
She insists on going to her dying father - he dies.
She insists on joining Robb - they both die.
She never thinks of Rickon in this way.
What the hell is going on here? Is anything going on?
Well, Lady Stoneheart has some grim reaper like qualities. Maybe in life, Catelyn Stark did as well.