Post by stdaga on Jan 22, 2018 16:57:24 GMT
I would say this chapter isn't heavy on the parentage hints, but I do think there are some subtle messages that are feathered into the text.
So we get hint's of extreme highs and lows in Ned's emotions, he goes from being so heart sick and weary he could barely stand to filled with a red rage. "Red rage" is only used once in the novels, and I find it interesting that is is attributed to our very white and grey and with shades of black Eddard Stark. Red is a color that is strongly associated with the Targaryen's and fire and blood, I think it's interesting that GRRM used this for Ned. Is there something here in this wording that hints to us a possibility of dragon blood? Dragon blood that came to Westeros long before the Targaryen's? Or dragon blood that is Targaryen in the Stark line?
Cold rage seems to fit the idea of the Stark's better than a red rage, but whatever flavor we see of rage, it shows up in several of the story lines of Ned's children.
Robb has a temper, and he demonstrates it several times. But Robb is young, and I wonder if he would have learned to temper that rage. I suppose he does, as we see less outbursts in Robb's later arch then we do in the beginning.
Robb had just found out that Winterfell had been put to the torch, but this rage is tempered with grief.
This seems to mirror Ned's cold rage.
This seems more of a mirror of Ned's red rage to me! And foreshadow a very dark Jon!
Bran doesn't have much rage in his storyline at all, but this is interesting. Summer has been sparring with Meera, and Shaggydog comes to the clearing because he has sensed Summer's rage, which is Bran's rage, too!
The word rage is never used to describe Rickon, but he certainly demonstrates a dangerous temper that could be considered rage.
Even Sansa has a lovely display of rage. And in this scene, it comes when she is emotionally reconnecting to Winterfell and the north, even if it's only through the vessel of a snow castle.
Surprisingly, rage doesn't show up in Arya's story line much in regards to herself. However, Arya doesn't keep things bottled up, she is a reactor, but she is also thoughtful and calculated. In this case, rage is translated not by her behavior, but her emotions. Rage and grief are tied together, and reminds of Ned's red rage and heart sickness.
Here is an example of Arya being a bit like Robb, and reacting physically with her temper.
Rage might not be a trait that Eddard passed to his children, but I think it is. All of them have flashes of it, although that might be the Stark blood, as we are told that Brandon had both mirth and rage in him. But I think these are clues that these children are Ned's (I could be very wrong about this), not just because he raised them, but because he is the seed that they sprung from.
It is Ned, Jon, Robb and Arya that seem to carry a combination of rage and sorrow in them at the same time. I didn't expect to see that in Robb and Arya, but it's there when I look at the text.
Back to this chapter:
This face, sullen and closed, very much brings Jon to mind, and I can't ignore that there are things about Jon that scream of Robert Baratheon, and this is one of them.
I never focused on this before, but Ned uses the term "the children" when talking about the kids names for the direwolves, and does not refer to them as "his children". Maybe that is a hint that one, or more than one, are not of his seed, and he knows it?
Does this hint back to Cat I, when she tells us that Ned always inquires about "the children", not "our children" or "my children"? Maybe Ned isn't not the bio-father of all of these children. Jon seems like the obvious choice, but obvious is dangerous in this story, so my money is on one who is not so obvious not being his, and he very well might be aware.
Honorable Mentions in this Chapter:
Of course Ned is talking about Arya here, but it screams Lyanna to me. Lyanna unwittingly stirred up a lot of trouble, possibly. But this trouble isn't just Arya's, it belonged to Sansa and Joffrey too. So, if this is an echo of the past, then who else was involved in Lyanna's trouble? A prince, which seems to indicate Rhaegar, and I would bet my money that the other lady in the mix is Ashara Dayne. Did the trouble happen at Harrenhal, or was it elsewhere?
It seems like a mirror or echo to me that Ned is dealing with queen's men here (Cersei's) while later Jon will be dealing with meddling queen's men on the wall (belonging to Selyse but doing the bidding of Mel). Does this hint to us that in the past it was queen's men who could have caused some of the problems leading up to Robert's rebellion, and not the kings men? Rhaella is often seen as a non-entity, or a kind woman who is in a sad and abusive relationship with her brother-husband, but what if Rhaella (and her men) played more of a roll than we have been led to believe?
Taking another look at this passage, I again note that it is the queen that demands punishment, not the king. Could Lyanna have crossed Rhaella some how, and it was Rhaella that ordered that Lyanna be taught a lesson. Rhaegar is said to have had a better relationship with his mother, so perhaps he would do her biding in regards to Lyanna? And it was Aerys that allowed it to happen, much like Robert does here?
I am not saying that Aerys wasn't fooking crazy, but maybe it wasn't he that was the only blame for some of the story that played out in the past.
This is interesting because it combines the idea of gold and dragons, gold is associated with Lannisters and dragon's with Targaryen's, hence a golden dragon. It also make me think of Viserion, and of Viserys. I think this is another hint of the Lannister/Targaryen blood in Cersei and Jaime, and probably Tyrion, too. A hundred golden dragon's equal one wolf skin, huh? I would agree!
This could also just be a hint at dragon's vs wolves in general, or the idea of Targaryen vs Stark. Maybe this is a balance that needs to be maintained, but I like the idea that one direwolf is worth a hundred dragons.
In another discussion, we had recently been talking about who is the king wearing a wolf's head, and I have been wondering what or who the wolf's head might symbolize. I got to thinking about Ned's execution of Lady. It is never specified in the text how he killed her (and the show gives us the image of Ned using a dagger to kill Lady) but in the book, Ned calls for Ice, and Ice is used in this story to behead people. So, I wonder if Ned beheaded Lady, and if that head is the symbolic head that we are seeing pop up in peoples dreams. We hear the idea that Grey Wind's head was probably cut off, but I am also wondering about Lady.
Okay, more honorable mentions than parentage idea's, but there are a few. I thought I had another hint, but I didn't write it down and it's lost in the ether of my brain!
He descended the tower steps in a red rage. He had led searches himself for the first three days, and had scarcely slept an hour since Arya had disappeared. This morning he had been so heartsick and weary he could scarcely stand, but now his fury was on him, filling him with strength. AGOT-Eddard III
Not even Jon Arryn had been able to calm that storm. Eddard Stark had ridden out that very day in a cold rage, to fight the last battles of the war alone in the south. AGOT-Eddard II
"Gods," Robb swore, his young face dark with anger. "If this is true, he will pay for it." He drew his sword and waved it in the air. "I'll kill him myself!" AGOT-Catelyn III
Wordless with rage, Robb slammed a fist down on the table and turned his face away, so the Freys would not see his tears. ASOS-Catelyn IV
Jon was cold with rage. AGOT-Jon III
Outside, Jon looked up at the Wall shining in the sun, the melting ice creeping down its side in a hundred thin fingers. Jon's rage was such that he would have smashed it all in an instant, and the world be damned. AGOT-Jon IV
The direwolf lunged again, and again Meera's spear darted out. Summer dodged, circled back. The bushes rustled, and a lean black shape came padding from behind the weirwood, teeth bared. The scent was strong; his brother had smelled his rage. Bran felt hairs rise on the back of his neck. Meera stood beside her brother, with wolves to either side. "Bran, call them off." ACOK-Bran IV
The word rage is never used to describe Rickon, but he certainly demonstrates a dangerous temper that could be considered rage.
A mad rage seized hold of her. She picked up a broken branch and smashed the torn doll's head down on top of it, then pushed it down atop the shattered gatehouse of her snow castle. The servants looked aghast, but when Littlefinger saw what she'd done he laughed. "If the tales be true, that's not the first giant to end up with his head on Winterfell's walls." ASOS-Sansa VII
The sound shivered through Arya like a knife, sharp with rage and grief. ASOS-Arya XI
"You rotten!" Arya shrieked. She flew at her sister like an arrow, knocking Sansa down to the ground, pummeling her. "Liar, liar, liar, liar."
"Arya, stop it!" Ned shouted. Jory pulled her off her sister, kicking. Sansa was pale and shaking as Ned lifted her back to her feet. "Are you hurt?" he asked, but she was staring at Arya, and she did not seem to hear.
"The girl is as wild as that filthy animal of hers," Cersei Lannister said. "Robert, I want her punished." AGOT-Eddard III
"Arya, stop it!" Ned shouted. Jory pulled her off her sister, kicking. Sansa was pale and shaking as Ned lifted her back to her feet. "Are you hurt?" he asked, but she was staring at Arya, and she did not seem to hear.
"The girl is as wild as that filthy animal of hers," Cersei Lannister said. "Robert, I want her punished." AGOT-Eddard III
Rage might not be a trait that Eddard passed to his children, but I think it is. All of them have flashes of it, although that might be the Stark blood, as we are told that Brandon had both mirth and rage in him. But I think these are clues that these children are Ned's (I could be very wrong about this), not just because he raised them, but because he is the seed that they sprung from.
It is Ned, Jon, Robb and Arya that seem to carry a combination of rage and sorrow in them at the same time. I didn't expect to see that in Robb and Arya, but it's there when I look at the text.
Back to this chapter:
Robert was slumped in Darry's high seat at the far end of the room, his face closed and sullen. AGOT-Eddard III
They were all staring at him, but it was Sansa's look that cut. "She is of the north. She deserves better than a butcher."
He left the room with his eyes burning and his daughter's wails echoing in his ears, and found the direwolf pup where they chained her. Ned sat beside her for a while. "Lady," he said, tasting the name. He had never paid much attention to the names the children had picked, but looking at her now, he knew that Sansa had chosen well. She was the smallest of the litter, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. She looked at him with bright golden eyes, and he ruffled her thick grey fur.
Shortly, Jory brought him Ice. AGOT-Eddard III
He left the room with his eyes burning and his daughter's wails echoing in his ears, and found the direwolf pup where they chained her. Ned sat beside her for a while. "Lady," he said, tasting the name. He had never paid much attention to the names the children had picked, but looking at her now, he knew that Sansa had chosen well. She was the smallest of the litter, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. She looked at him with bright golden eyes, and he ruffled her thick grey fur.
Shortly, Jory brought him Ice. AGOT-Eddard III
Does this hint back to Cat I, when she tells us that Ned always inquires about "the children", not "our children" or "my children"? Maybe Ned isn't not the bio-father of all of these children. Jon seems like the obvious choice, but obvious is dangerous in this story, so my money is on one who is not so obvious not being his, and he very well might be aware.
Honorable Mentions in this Chapter:
Ned went to one knee and took her in his arms. She was shaking. "I'm sorry," she sobbed, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry."
"I know," he said. She felt so tiny in his arms, nothing but a scrawny little girl. It was hard to see how she had caused so much trouble. "Are you hurt?" AGOT-Eddard III
"I know," he said. She felt so tiny in his arms, nothing but a scrawny little girl. It was hard to see how she had caused so much trouble. "Are you hurt?" AGOT-Eddard III
"Thank the gods," Ned said. His men had been searching for Arya for four days now, but the queen's men had been out hunting as well. AGOT-Eddard III
"You rotten!" Arya shrieked. She flew at her sister like an arrow, knocking Sansa down to the ground, pummeling her. "Liar, liar, liar, liar."
"Arya, stop it!" Ned shouted. Jory pulled her off her sister, kicking. Sansa was pale and shaking as Ned lifted her back to her feet. "Are you hurt?" he asked, but she was staring at Arya, and she did not seem to hear.
"The girl is as wild as that filthy animal of hers," Cersei Lannister said. "Robert, I want her punished." AGOT-Eddard III
"Arya, stop it!" Ned shouted. Jory pulled her off her sister, kicking. Sansa was pale and shaking as Ned lifted her back to her feet. "Are you hurt?" he asked, but she was staring at Arya, and she did not seem to hear.
"The girl is as wild as that filthy animal of hers," Cersei Lannister said. "Robert, I want her punished." AGOT-Eddard III
I am not saying that Aerys wasn't fooking crazy, but maybe it wasn't he that was the only blame for some of the story that played out in the past.
The queen raised her voice. "A hundred golden dragons to the man who brings me its skin!"
"A costly pelt," Robert grumbled. "I want no part of this, woman. You can damn well buy your furs with Lannister gold."
...
"We have a wolf," Cersei Lannister said. Her voice was very quiet, but her green eyes shone with triumph. AGOT-Eddard III
"A costly pelt," Robert grumbled. "I want no part of this, woman. You can damn well buy your furs with Lannister gold."
...
"We have a wolf," Cersei Lannister said. Her voice was very quiet, but her green eyes shone with triumph. AGOT-Eddard III
This could also just be a hint at dragon's vs wolves in general, or the idea of Targaryen vs Stark. Maybe this is a balance that needs to be maintained, but I like the idea that one direwolf is worth a hundred dragons.
They were all staring at him, but it was Sansa's look that cut. "She is of the north. She deserves better than a butcher."
He left the room with his eyes burning and his daughter's wails echoing in his ears, and found the direwolf pup where they chained her. Ned sat beside her for a while. "Lady," he said, tasting the name. He had never paid much attention to the names the children had picked, but looking at her now, he knew that Sansa had chosen well. She was the smallest of the litter, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. She looked at him with bright golden eyes, and he ruffled her thick grey fur.
Shortly, Jory brought him Ice.
When it was over, he said, "Choose four men and have them take the body north. Bury her at Winterfell." AGOT-Eddard III
He left the room with his eyes burning and his daughter's wails echoing in his ears, and found the direwolf pup where they chained her. Ned sat beside her for a while. "Lady," he said, tasting the name. He had never paid much attention to the names the children had picked, but looking at her now, he knew that Sansa had chosen well. She was the smallest of the litter, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. She looked at him with bright golden eyes, and he ruffled her thick grey fur.
Shortly, Jory brought him Ice.
When it was over, he said, "Choose four men and have them take the body north. Bury her at Winterfell." AGOT-Eddard III
Okay, more honorable mentions than parentage idea's, but there are a few. I thought I had another hint, but I didn't write it down and it's lost in the ether of my brain!