Post by stdaga on Feb 20, 2018 6:49:03 GMT
Just a few other things that I seen as possible parentage connections in this chapter.
Eddard Stark dreamed of a frozen hell reserved for the Starks of Winterfell?
The text seems to imply that Ned has dreams. Hints at restless sleep, being shaken awake from his dreams, his toj fever dream, which he indicates is an old dream and one he has had before, probably more than once. So The Ned has dreams. And here we have him reporting dreams of a "frozen hell reserved for the Starks of Winterfell", which seems very much like he is dreaming of the crypts. How long has Ned has these dreams and what are the dreams like?
We know that Jon has dreams of the crypts, of the kings and lords watching him with blind stone eyes. Jon walks through the darkness, searching for something, looking for his family, feeling frighted at times and alone.
So, how similar are the dreams that Ned has of a "frozen hell" and Jon's crypts dreams? Are they the same? Does Ned wander in the crypts, searching for something while the stone kings mutter at him? Does Ned feel as uneasy with these dreams as Jon does? In my head, this just seems like a direct connection between these two men, the quiet wolf and the boy who is gifted a quiet wolf by the gods.
Is it only Ned and Jon that are Stark blooded and have these types of crypt dreams (I am going to not focus on Dany's very similar dreams for a moment). We are told some of the dreams of Bran, Arya and Sansa, and none of those dreams outline dreams of the crypts. Bran does dreams of Ned in the crypts, and so does Rickon it seems, but these dreams do not have the same feel as Jon's crypts dreams, which we have in detail, and hint's of a possible similarity in Ned's dreams. No idea what other dreams Rickon might have, or if Robb has any dreams at all.
So, what is it about Ned and Jon that make the crypts important in their dreams? Granted, this dream might be a one time dream for Ned, but we know that Jon's dreams are reoccurring, and altering with each time the dream comes, it seems. Ned and Jon! Does this connect them as father and son, or is the connection something different?
And Dany has a dream that seems a bit similar to the crypt dreams, except she has never seen the crypts of Winterfell and would not associate what she see's with the crypts. But she dreams of rows of kings holding swords.
The imagery is similar but not exact. In the crypts the kings and lords sit with swords on their laps and stone direwolves at their feet. In Dany's dreams, the kings line the hallway (we are not told if they sit or stand), hold swords of "pale fire" and their eyes are jeweled. I don't know how that connects all of these dreams, but it seems to me they must be connected some how.
This might not be a parentage hint, but it is one other similarity between Ned and Jon. Bran, it seem's, is a gifted and unafraid climber, but Ned doesn't enjoy this but does manage. We see this similar imagery in Sansa's escape from the Red Keep (same path, I think), but it mostly reminds me of Jon climbing the Skirling Pass.
Jon's time climbing is quite a few paragraphs text but a few passages that stand out to me are these:
So, while Ned and Jon (and Sansa) have the courage to make these climbs, they don't seem to enjoy it, and later in the story, Jon admits to Qhorin that he does not know if he can face the Skirling Pass again if that is how they must go back. While Bran relishes such heights and seems to have no fear, as if he is meant to be destined to heights, Jon and Ned make their respective climbs, but don't enjoy even a bit of it, I don't think. It just seems like another similarity between the two of them.
I remember on one of my many rereads, when it occurred to me just how much Ned and Jon were alike, and I was stunned that I hadn't focused on it before. I know this similarity doesn't mean they need to be biologic father and son, but sometimes it seems hard to imagine any other connection between the two of them.
A little thought on Cat:
Catelyn thinks a similar thing in regards to Robb in one of her POV chapters, Catelyn II, I think. Still, this strikes me as a bit odd. "My girls", as opposed to "our girls". Is this a hint that both girls might not be Neds? I am more inclined to think this is her being self-centered than anything else, but still, it stands out to me in the text. All of my grumkin tinfoil aside, it seems Cat thinks of Arya as her own child!
Outside, wagons and riders were still pouring through the castle gates, and the yard was a chaos of mud and horseflesh and shouting men. The king had not yet arrived, he was told. Since the ugliness on the Trident, the Starks and their household had ridden well ahead of the main column, the better to separate themselves from the Lannisters and the growing tension. Robert had hardly been seen; the talk was he was traveling in the huge wheelhouse, drunk as often as not. If so, he might be hours behind, but he would still be here too soon for Ned's liking. He had only to look at Sansa's face to feel the rage twisting inside him once again. The last fortnight of their journey had been a misery. Sansa blamed Arya and told her that it should have been Nymeria who died. And Arya was lost after she heard what had happened to her butcher's boy. Sansa cried herself to sleep, Arya brooded silently all day long, and Eddard Stark dreamed of a frozen hell reserved for the Starks of Winterfell. AGOT-Eddard IV
Eddard Stark dreamed of a frozen hell reserved for the Starks of Winterfell?
The text seems to imply that Ned has dreams. Hints at restless sleep, being shaken awake from his dreams, his toj fever dream, which he indicates is an old dream and one he has had before, probably more than once. So The Ned has dreams. And here we have him reporting dreams of a "frozen hell reserved for the Starks of Winterfell", which seems very much like he is dreaming of the crypts. How long has Ned has these dreams and what are the dreams like?
We know that Jon has dreams of the crypts, of the kings and lords watching him with blind stone eyes. Jon walks through the darkness, searching for something, looking for his family, feeling frighted at times and alone.
So, how similar are the dreams that Ned has of a "frozen hell" and Jon's crypts dreams? Are they the same? Does Ned wander in the crypts, searching for something while the stone kings mutter at him? Does Ned feel as uneasy with these dreams as Jon does? In my head, this just seems like a direct connection between these two men, the quiet wolf and the boy who is gifted a quiet wolf by the gods.
Is it only Ned and Jon that are Stark blooded and have these types of crypt dreams (I am going to not focus on Dany's very similar dreams for a moment). We are told some of the dreams of Bran, Arya and Sansa, and none of those dreams outline dreams of the crypts. Bran does dreams of Ned in the crypts, and so does Rickon it seems, but these dreams do not have the same feel as Jon's crypts dreams, which we have in detail, and hint's of a possible similarity in Ned's dreams. No idea what other dreams Rickon might have, or if Robb has any dreams at all.
So, what is it about Ned and Jon that make the crypts important in their dreams? Granted, this dream might be a one time dream for Ned, but we know that Jon's dreams are reoccurring, and altering with each time the dream comes, it seems. Ned and Jon! Does this connect them as father and son, or is the connection something different?
And Dany has a dream that seems a bit similar to the crypt dreams, except she has never seen the crypts of Winterfell and would not associate what she see's with the crypts. But she dreams of rows of kings holding swords.
Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. AGOT-Daenerys IX
Ned studied the rocky face of the bluff for a moment, then followed more slowly. The niches were there, as Littlefinger had promised, shallow cuts that would be invisible from below, unless you knew just where to look for them. The river was a long, dizzying distance below. Ned kept his face pressed to the rock and tried not to look down any more often than he had to. AGOT-Eddard IV
Jon's time climbing is quite a few paragraphs text but a few passages that stand out to me are these:
The path Stonesnake chose would never have served for the horses. In places Jon had to put his back to the cold stone and shuffle along sideways like a crab, inch by inch. Even where the track widened it was treacherous; there were cracks big enough to swallow a man's leg, rubble to stumble over, hollow places where the water pooled by day and froze hard by night. One step and then another, Jon told himself. One step and then another, and I will not fall.
He had not shaved since leaving the Fist of the First Men, and the hair on his lip was soon stiff with frost. Two hours into the climb, the wind kicked up so fiercely that it was all he could do to hunch down and cling to the rock, praying he would not be blown off the mountain. One step and then another, he resumed when the gale subsided. One step and then another, and I will not fall.
...
When the spike was secure, Stonesnake secured the rope to it, and Jon started after him. Suck on the mountain's teat, he reminded himself. Don't look down. Keep your weight above your feet. Don't look down. Look at the rock in front of you. There's a good handhold, yes. Don't look down. I can catch a breath on that ledge there, all I need to do is reach it. Never look down.
Once his foot slipped as he put his weight on it and his heart stopped in his chest, but the gods were good and he did not fall.
...
Up they went, and up, and up, black shadows creeping across the moonlit wall of rock. Anyone down on the floor of the pass could have seen them easily, but the mountain hid them from the view of the wildlings by their fire. They were close now, though. Jon could sense it. Even so, he did not think of the foes who were waiting for him, all unknowing, but of his brother at Winterfell. Bran used to love to climb. I wish I had a tenth part of his courage. ACOK-Jon VI
He had not shaved since leaving the Fist of the First Men, and the hair on his lip was soon stiff with frost. Two hours into the climb, the wind kicked up so fiercely that it was all he could do to hunch down and cling to the rock, praying he would not be blown off the mountain. One step and then another, he resumed when the gale subsided. One step and then another, and I will not fall.
...
When the spike was secure, Stonesnake secured the rope to it, and Jon started after him. Suck on the mountain's teat, he reminded himself. Don't look down. Keep your weight above your feet. Don't look down. Look at the rock in front of you. There's a good handhold, yes. Don't look down. I can catch a breath on that ledge there, all I need to do is reach it. Never look down.
Once his foot slipped as he put his weight on it and his heart stopped in his chest, but the gods were good and he did not fall.
...
Up they went, and up, and up, black shadows creeping across the moonlit wall of rock. Anyone down on the floor of the pass could have seen them easily, but the mountain hid them from the view of the wildlings by their fire. They were close now, though. Jon could sense it. Even so, he did not think of the foes who were waiting for him, all unknowing, but of his brother at Winterfell. Bran used to love to climb. I wish I had a tenth part of his courage. ACOK-Jon VI
I remember on one of my many rereads, when it occurred to me just how much Ned and Jon were alike, and I was stunned that I hadn't focused on it before. I know this similarity doesn't mean they need to be biologic father and son, but sometimes it seems hard to imagine any other connection between the two of them.
A little thought on Cat:
"I feared you'd never come, my lord," she whispered against his chest. "Petyr has been bringing me reports. He told me of your troubles with Arya and the young prince. How are my girls?" AGOT-Eddard IV