I don't go over to Westeros very much, and only came across that heresy post on shadows by accident the other night. Every now and then I like to see what volume of R+L=J thread they are on. #165, if anyone is counting! The heresy boards are more inquisitive and open than the majority of posting over there. This is the first time I have actually seen a heresy post that wasn't already locked by the time I came across it.
LOL! Obviously they are counting! I've found that utterly fascinating to be honest; one forum having soooo many RLJ hashings boggles the mind really.
I don't go over to Westeros very much, and only came across that heresy post on shadows by accident the other night.
so i did read the thread and found some interesting ideas eg the obsidian dagger capturing the soul of the ww.
Also freyfamilyreunion writing, IIRC, that the ww embody pretty much what the NW men expect to see, ie a knight, i have long believed the same.
Finally a suggestion that a sea-dragon is a sea volcano, say like Krakatoa. Since i believe that in our own history the dragons of legends are volcanos, that makes sense. Volcanos do growl stupendously and spit flames...
Even though I admit I don't think Tyrion is quite as smart as I had initially taken him for!
all these Lannisters seem to be driven by their pants... but I would not discount Tyrion so easily, when he is not drunk or depressed he gets things done.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
one forum having soooo many RLJ hashings boggles the mind really.
... 164 dead horses?
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
I don't go over to Westeros very much, and only came across that heresy post on shadows by accident the other night.
so i did read the thread and found some interesting ideas eg the obsidian dagger capturing the soul of the ww.
Also freyfamilyreunion writing, IIRC, that the ww embody pretty much what the NW men expect to see, ie a knight, i have long believed the same.
Finally a suggestion that a sea-dragon is a sea volcano, say like Krakatoa. Since i believe that in our own history the dragons of legends are volcanos, that makes sense. Volcanos do growl stupendously and spit flames...
I admit I have not read the whole thread over there yet, but I did like the idea of the obsidian capturing the essence of the WW. It might be the reason it was so cold when Grenn first tried to pick it up.
The knight comment also reminded me of the story making note of the idea of snow knights. Someone, I think it is in Dance, makes note of the concept of snow knight's as something people are frightened of. Then we have Sansa in the Vale thinking she needs to make a snow knight, which I think could hint at her magic potential, and also it brings to mind the snow men that have been built on the walls of Winterfell. Why? They certainly seem like a message, but to whom is the message being sent.
Well, volcano's and tsunami's are both natural disaster's that people might need to explain away with myth and magic. I suppose almost everything can be explained by natural phenomenon, but when it comes to dragons, I can't help but think that we certainly do have dragon's in our story, so I find it hard to completely dismiss that dragons could have potentially caused these things. It does make me wonder about the Serwyn and the Mirror Shield story, however, and how that "dragon" could be explained by a natural disaster.
I need to read through the rest of that thread. Glad you found some idea's that you thought were interesting!
Even though I admit I don't think Tyrion is quite as smart as I had initially taken him for!
all these Lannisters seem to be driven by their pants... but I would not discount Tyrion so easily, when he is not drunk or depressed he gets things done.
Oh, he is very capable when he set's his mind to it, and yes, women are probably his biggest distractor and wine is a vice he could do without, but I was thinking more in perception. I used to think he was pretty spot on with how he interpreted things and people, but now I am not quite as convinced. He definitely see's what he wants to see, in many regards and sometimes his cynicism works against him. For instance, I think he was being very manipulated by Illyrio with the Young Griff situation. Tyrion perhaps has an inflated sense of intelligence that is being used against him. He is seeing what they want him to see, and he thinks he is so smart to pick these hints up, but really, the hints are being placed on a silver platter in front of his face, and they are revealing it to him in ways that make him think he has it figured out.
But I don't discount his potential! For both good and bad!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Why is this all happening? voice (should rename him @silent!!) explained all in his Miasma essay (must read if you have not). The place needs to be purged.
Yup. Was busy for a while there, but my third-eye has definitely been focused on all things Miasma. I find myself getting more and more stuck on that line from Catelyn:
Jon did not know what to say. "It wasn't your fault," he managed after an awkward silence. Her eyes found him. They were full of poison. "I need none of your absolution, bastard."
I think Jon will sacrifice himself for the realms of men. They will need the bastard's absolution, and he alone is the character willing to be the sacrificial lamb for the miasma that is not their fault.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
I think Jon will sacrifice himself for the realms of men. They will need the bastard's absolution, and he alone is the character willing to be the sacrificial lamb for the miasma that is not their fault.
I think you are right: isn't what has already happened when he was stabbed at Castle Black?
Considering that event has taken place late in the story (5 out of 6 - or is that 7? - books) it could well be the turning point.
Not sure though about him being the only sacrificial lamb. Stannis might join him; he also fights for the realm of men.
BTW:
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
The knight comment also reminded me of the story making note of the idea of snow knights. Someone, I think it is in Dance, makes note of the concept of snow knight's as something people are frightened of. Then we have Sansa in the Vale thinking she needs to make a snow knight, which I think could hint at her magic potential, and also it brings to mind the snow men that have been built on the walls of Winterfell. Why? They certainly seem like a message, but to whom is the message being sent.
This is the text that I was thinking about in relation to snow knights. I wasn't even close to the correct book!
No man would ever call Cotter Pyke handsome, though the body under his studded brigantine and roughspun breeches was lean and hard and wiry strong. His eyes were small and close-set, his nose broken, his widow's peak as sharply pointed as the head of a spear. The pox had ravaged his face badly, and the beard he'd grown to hide the scars was thin and scraggly.
"Sam the Slayer!" he said, by way of greeting. "Are you sure you stabbed an Other, and not some child's snow knight?" ASOS-Samwell V
It's interesting this comes from Cotter Pyke, the commander at Eastwatch. Eventually we will hear of strange goings on and reports from near Eastwatch.
Here's Sansa's snow knight thought.
What do I want with snowballs? She looked at her sad little arsenal. There's no one to throw them at. She let the one she was making drop from her hand. I could build a snow knight instead, she thought. Or even . . .
She pushed two of her snowballs together, added a third, packed more snow in around them, and patted the whole thing into the shape of a cylinder. When it was done, she stood it on end and used the tip of her little finger to poke holes in it for windows. The crenellations around the top took a little more care, but when they were done she had a tower. I need some walls now, Sansa thought, and then a keep. She set to work. ASOS-Sansa VII
Of course, in the end, Sansa builds a snow castle. Her version of Winterfell, but it's interesting that her mind goes to a snow knight concept but then builds a castle for said snow knight to defend (or capture, I suppose!)
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I think you are right: isn't what has already happened when he was stabbed at Castle Black?
Considering that event has taken place late in the story (5 out of 6 - or is that 7? - books) it could well be the turning point.
Re: the bold... No, not in my opinion.
Jon was hoodwinked. Bamboozled. And led astray, when he felt those three knives.
That is much, much different than sacrificing himself in an effort to absolve those who wronged him and the realm. An unknowing or unwilling or struggling martyr is no martyr at all. Jon will be a willing and reverent scapegoat, like Jesus and Harry Potter: