Post by shymaid on Mar 2, 2018 18:57:14 GMT
Much and more could be said of this chapter (I could write a whole Lyanna-through-the-books-by-proxy series...) and it's taken me forever to get through this, but I will keep myself in line and just point to a couple of things that I see as parentage related.
In this exchange we get so many interesting facts about Lyanna, and what happened around the rebellion it's easy to get a bit lost. But looking closer our mind is taken from a sword, to Lyanna, back to the sword and then all Arya can think of is Jon. And his very sexual lesson for his little sister. That is interesting, no?
Of our potential baby daddies, Brandon was fond of his sword (or should I say swords? ) and Arya got her lesson from her brother, or rather her half-brother. Also in this section we learn Brandon had a wee bit more than a touch of the wolf blood that led the siblings to their grave, so he's in the running here.
Still, one detail here makes me think in other lines, the fact that the sword is named. Granted, Brandon was in line for wielding Ice, but Rikard lived longer than Brandon by most accounts (though not by much...) so that fit is not so good.
But we do have another man who also loved his sword, a named sword. Ser Arthur Dayne! This fits better in my mind with what we got here. And yes, I do try to look past my bias. And as a bonus to stdaga here, we also get the idea of the named sword breaking, or never breaking if Arya is to believed. Which makes it even more interesting to me at least, including a tie to Dawn and therefor Arthur.
Another smaller thing:
A point against Arya being a bastard of Ned's, unless he's only talking about the Stark blood. Which could be possible.
A little sideline here. We've had some discussion recently on Arya truly resembling Lyanna or not.
The bolded part is the thing that has been up for questioning. And it is true that it can be discussed.
Firstly "You remind me of her sometimes" coming right after Lyanna wanting to carry a sword indicates that they have similarities in personalities, but also have quite a few differences. Imo at least.
"You even look like her" is also vague and could indicate that the resemblance is less than many believe. And this could certainly be true. But we also get the imfamous tree-vision from Bran in Dance:
If this girl is indeed Lyanna playing/practicing with Benjen, they look enough like each other for Bran to think it's Arya. He even points this out. On the other hand, it has been what, two years since he's seen his sister and now he's seeing someone who looks like her in a drug-induced vision. So a pinch of salt could be in order.
That Robert doesn't notice the resemblance could be for other reasons, like not looking to closely at a nine-year-old for example.
Another thing that has come up in other discussions are Lyanna's haircolor, and Benjen's. It is odd that we don't get either of them, and this quote has been used to question Benjen's haircolor as Bran thinks it's him for a moment, and he's auburn. And that is true. But the reverse is true for Lyanna, as Arya has dark brown hair, and so the vision would indicate that Lyanna had as well.
Personally I don't have hard stances on either of them, but I did want to mention it.
"I don't want to be a lady!" Arya flared.
"I ought to snap this toy across my knee here and now, and put an end to this nonsense."
"Needle wouldn't break," Arya said defiantly, but her voice betrayed her words.
"It has a name, does it?" Her father sighed. "Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. 'The wolf blood,' my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave." Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. "Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."
"Lyanna was beautiful," Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya.
"She was," Eddard Stark agreed, "beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time." He lifted the sword, held it out between them. "Arya, what did you think to do with this … Needle? Who did you hope to skewer? Your sister? Septa Mordane? Do you know the first thing about sword fighting?"
All she could think of was the lesson Jon had given her. "Stick them with the pointy end," she blurted out.
"I ought to snap this toy across my knee here and now, and put an end to this nonsense."
"Needle wouldn't break," Arya said defiantly, but her voice betrayed her words.
"It has a name, does it?" Her father sighed. "Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. 'The wolf blood,' my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave." Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. "Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."
"Lyanna was beautiful," Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya.
"She was," Eddard Stark agreed, "beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time." He lifted the sword, held it out between them. "Arya, what did you think to do with this … Needle? Who did you hope to skewer? Your sister? Septa Mordane? Do you know the first thing about sword fighting?"
All she could think of was the lesson Jon had given her. "Stick them with the pointy end," she blurted out.
In this exchange we get so many interesting facts about Lyanna, and what happened around the rebellion it's easy to get a bit lost. But looking closer our mind is taken from a sword, to Lyanna, back to the sword and then all Arya can think of is Jon. And his very sexual lesson for his little sister. That is interesting, no?
Of our potential baby daddies, Brandon was fond of his sword (or should I say swords? ) and Arya got her lesson from her brother, or rather her half-brother. Also in this section we learn Brandon had a wee bit more than a touch of the wolf blood that led the siblings to their grave, so he's in the running here.
Still, one detail here makes me think in other lines, the fact that the sword is named. Granted, Brandon was in line for wielding Ice, but Rikard lived longer than Brandon by most accounts (though not by much...) so that fit is not so good.
But we do have another man who also loved his sword, a named sword. Ser Arthur Dayne! This fits better in my mind with what we got here. And yes, I do try to look past my bias. And as a bonus to stdaga here, we also get the idea of the named sword breaking, or never breaking if Arya is to believed. Which makes it even more interesting to me at least, including a tie to Dawn and therefor Arthur.
Another smaller thing:
[...] and Sansa … Sansa is your sister. You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you … and I need both of you, gods help me."
A point against Arya being a bastard of Ned's, unless he's only talking about the Stark blood. Which could be possible.
A little sideline here. We've had some discussion recently on Arya truly resembling Lyanna or not.
"Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."
The bolded part is the thing that has been up for questioning. And it is true that it can be discussed.
Firstly "You remind me of her sometimes" coming right after Lyanna wanting to carry a sword indicates that they have similarities in personalities, but also have quite a few differences. Imo at least.
"You even look like her" is also vague and could indicate that the resemblance is less than many believe. And this could certainly be true. But we also get the imfamous tree-vision from Bran in Dance:
The rest of his father's words were drowned out by a sudden clatter of wood on wood. Eddard Stark dissolved, like mist in a morning sun. Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. "You be quiet, stupid," the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. "It's just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?" She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.
After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor. A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.
After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor. A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.
If this girl is indeed Lyanna playing/practicing with Benjen, they look enough like each other for Bran to think it's Arya. He even points this out. On the other hand, it has been what, two years since he's seen his sister and now he's seeing someone who looks like her in a drug-induced vision. So a pinch of salt could be in order.
That Robert doesn't notice the resemblance could be for other reasons, like not looking to closely at a nine-year-old for example.
Another thing that has come up in other discussions are Lyanna's haircolor, and Benjen's. It is odd that we don't get either of them, and this quote has been used to question Benjen's haircolor as Bran thinks it's him for a moment, and he's auburn. And that is true. But the reverse is true for Lyanna, as Arya has dark brown hair, and so the vision would indicate that Lyanna had as well.
Personally I don't have hard stances on either of them, but I did want to mention it.