stdaga , Tywin had the most to gain from rebels and loyalists fighting . Elia was sickly and Lyanna needed to be removed from the playing field
One could argue that Robert gained the most, since he became king. Not that I think that Robert plotted the rebellion on his own, but he could have been part of it. Yes, Tywin has a lot to gain as well, but I think Tywin's goal would have been Aerys' fall, and House Targaryen along with him. Revenge is a dish Tywin likes to serve, whether it's hot or cold!
And there are theories that indicate that Elia might have been being poisoned, although I am not sure that I believe those. And several people could have benefited from that. IF Elia was a sickly as people claim. I am not sure about that, either.
I do see the potential of both Elia and Lyanna needing to be removed from Rhaegar's perceived affections. But I question that the guilty person might be Cersei, more than Tywin. She is a wretched scheming selfish and manipulative person!
Lord Tywin cut him off. "Mace Tyrell has refused my offer to marry Cersei to his heir Willas."
"Refused our sweet Cersei?" That put Tyrion in a much better mood.
"When I first broached the match to him, Lord Tyrell seemed well enough disposed," his father said. "A day later, all was changed. The old woman's work. She hectors her son unmercifully. Varys claims she told him that your sister was too old and too used for this precious one-legged grandson of hers."
"Cersei must have loved that." He laughed.
Lord Tywin gave him a chilly look. "She does not know. Nor will she. It is better for all of us if the offer was never made. See that you remember that, Tyrion. The offer was never made." ASOS-Tyrion IV
Hint's from Tywin that it is better if Cersei doesn't know she was refused for marriage. And this is a marriage she vehemently does not want, but Tywin still fears her reaction to it, I think. What would she do if she was refused a marriage that she did want, a marriage to the crown prince, the beautiful Rhaegar?
She will never wash the stain away, no matter how hard she scrubs. Ser Kevan remembered the girl she once had been, so full of life and mischief. And when she'd flowered, ahhhh … had there ever been a maid so sweet to look upon? If Aerys had agreed to marry her to Rhaegar, how many deaths might have been avoided? Cersei could have given the prince the sons he wanted, lions with purple eyes and silver manes … and with such a wife, Rhaegar might never have looked twice at Lyanna Stark. The northern girl had a wild beauty, as he recalled, though however bright a torch might burn it could never match the rising sun.
But it did no good to brood on lost battles and roads not taken. That was a vice of old done men. Rhaegar had wed Elia of Dorne, Lyanna Stark had died, Robert Baratheon had taken Cersei to bride, and here they were. And tonight his own road would take him to his niece's chambers and face-to-face with Cersei. ADWD-Epilogue
It was Aerys who had refused to let Cersei marry Rhaegar, and this refusal caused deaths? In the next paragraph we hear of Elia and Lyanna, also Rhaegar and Robert. All dead! Perhaps because Cersei knew that Aerys had refused to allow her to marry his son. Perhaps it would have been better for everyone involved if Cersei never knew there had been an offer made for her to marry Rhaegar that was refused. We see that Cersei doesn't like to lose. And is quite capable of ordering terrible things to get her way or to benefit herself. Only, most of her plans backfire. The people that stood in Cersei's path to Rhaegar, Elia and Lyanna, both died, conveniently. But so did Rhaegar, the charming prince she wished to marry.
I think she is perhaps more to blame for stirring up the pre-rebellion than Tywin. Time will tell on this, I think, if this theory is correct.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
At the end of the dream, Lyanna makes an appearance as well. Screaming! "As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming." I am still not sold that this is a true indication of Lyanna being at the toj or even why she might have been screaming, either in the dream or in reality. But Lyanna does tend to serve as book mark to this fever dream that involves white cloaks, grey wraiths and towers long fallen.
I have often wondered whether a tower long fallen means that it fell long before Ned dreamed or it fell long before he arrived there. I have also wondered whether the swords rushed together in some sort of ritual rather than battle, if they came together at all. All of your qualifications about what might have happened and what may or may not have been there are well taken. But it is certainly evocative of a woman in a tower guarded by the king's brave guards. That that image is evocative of Arthurian legend. The bit of the legend that lead to this image was of the king's most loyal, brave, and worthy knight and friend, loved by all of the other knights. When they became enemies (0ver a beautiful woman), the knights were torn apart. For obvious reasons, we usually put SAD in Arthur's place, but for these purposes, what if SAD is Lancelot and Rhaegar is Arthur? Rhaegar isn't around to storm SAD's castle, but it could explain Ned's accusations that the KG were disloyal. I agree that the form of the parlay does not seem like Ned's style. But he has had years to remember and re-imagine and consider what he might have said or done and what might have gone better or worse.
Earlier in the story, Robert talks about how many times Rhaegar might have raped Lyanna. Here, his words do hint perhaps at a different relationship besides rape. Both Rhaegar and Lyanna are in an afterlife, a Hades type of place, an underworld, not necessarily a heaven or hell, but a place for dead souls. And Robert thinks that Rhaegar "has" Lyanna in this afterlife. This does hint at a relationship beyond rape. I don't favor RLJ, and I am also not very fond of any R+L scenario, but there are some hints of it in the text. They are not as concrete as many would like to say, but they do exist. And this is one of them. If Robert truly feels like Rhaegar took Lyanna against her will and raped her, why would he ever think they might be spending their time in the underworld together?
Robert may think of women as things to be possessed. Lyanna's will may be irrelevant in Robert's thinking. Rhaegar has Lyanna because he had her in the end, or perhaps because both are in the underworld.
Sudden tinfoil popping into my head as I type. What if Rhaegar's only goal was to manipulate a situation so that his remains did end up in the crypts at Winterfell? What if there is some magic and rebirth that relates to the crypts, and Rhaegar wanted some part of that. Could he have manipulated the situation so that he could lie in the crypts? But he has no statue as far as we know, and that seems to be important, so perhaps this is just dazed-from-too-much-typing tinfoil and needs to get tossed into the garbage!
I really like the notion. I'm not saying I think there is any meaningful support for it in the text, but I like it
Hmmm! Mistrust leading to poison, sour and fearful, is something JonCon feels Rhaegar seen in the end! Is this in regards to Aerys? Aerys was "one such", so this could mean it was someone besides Aerys that Rhaegar "seen in the end". It could very well be about Aerys, as well.
It could be possible, I guess. Who do you think me meant, if not Aerys? If suuch clues are inbedded in the text, I'd think we'd also get a hint of the alternative, or at least a viable option.
What I don't trust necessarily about JonCon's views on Rhaegar, since he see's him as a paragon, is if statements such as this are a true representation of Rhaegar. After all, JonCon seem's to "love" Prince Silverstring, and so might be blinded to any of his faults, or even give him the benefit of the doubt when it might not be correct. I'm sure Rhaegar was neither saint nor sinner, but fell somewhere in between, like most people do!
Not saying he is. But should we discount all he says just becaus he has a crush? If so, we can rule out most of our characters and basically have little and less to build anything on.
But it is certainly evocative of a woman in a tower guarded by the king's brave guards.
Well, a thought that just occurred to me is that the reality could be the opposite. A woman in an unguarded tower. There are such to be found in many a fairytale, and the towers are hard or impossible to escape from or enter. My memory is a bit fuzzy here, though, as I haven't had time to brush off my fairytales yet.
That that image is evocative of Arthurian legend. The bit of the legend that lead to this image was of the king's most loyal, brave, and worthy knight and friend, loved by all of the other knights. When they became enemies (0ver a beautiful woman), the knights were torn apart. For obvious reasons, we usually put SAD in Arthur's place, but for these purposes, what if SAD is Lancelot and Rhaegar is Arthur? Rhaegar isn't around to storm SAD's castle, but it could explain Ned's accusations that the KG were disloyal.
Could you give a short summary of this, please? My Arthurian knowledge is rather lacking...
Robert may think of women as things to be possessed. Lyanna's will may be irrelevant in Robert's thinking. Rhaegar has Lyanna because he had her in the end, or perhaps because both are in the underworld.
Could you give a short summary of this, please? My Arthurian knowledge is rather lacking...
It is a story of the heart divided against itself. It's been a long time since I actually read the stuff and there are many different versions and few few different versions that are considered definitive, so I'm a bit vague, but: King Arthur founded the round table staffed by brave and virtuous knights. The knights were one in their love of virtue and of nobility and of Arthur. The most noble and loyal of those knights was Lancelot, who was loved and admired by Arthur and by all of the other knights (well, almost all, but that is another tangle with multiple versions and is dim in my recollection). Lancelot was also admired and loved by Arthur's wife, Gwenevere. When Lancelot and Gwenevere were discovered together, they fled. War ensued. The knights were divided, some going with Lancelot, some warring against him. I am not really trying to argue SAD+L or R+L. I don't find enough evidence to support (or refute) either. But I think this passage is very evocative. Of course, in terms of what really happened, evocative can be deceiving. But part of the hunting beauty of the dream is the collection of myths and archetypes that it touches.
I have often wondered whether a tower long fallen means that it fell long before Ned dreamed or it fell long before he arrived there.
Yes, this tower is very interesting. shymaid has been looking for this tower, too. I also wonder if it fell long, long ago and I don't know that this tower in this part of Ned's dream actually is the same tower that might have been located where ever the toj is at. It could also mean that Eddard help bring the tower down, or the tower is a metaphor for something else, although I like the imagery of a fallen tower being about an actual fallen tower, not just a lie or story that has fallen, and also that it physically is just not a tower near the red mountains of Dorne.
I have also wondered whether the swords rushed together in some sort of ritual rather than battle, if they came together at all.
I have not thought much on this part as being a ritual, but I suppose it could be. It is possible that there was never an actual fight with 7v3 men in the dream. All the dream really tells us "as it was in life" is the 10 men who met. Not what they actually did. Although some type of show down is certainly implied. Of course, implication can be a dangerous thing to follow in this story ...
All of your qualifications about what might have happened and what may or may not have been there are well taken. But it is certainly evocative of a woman in a tower guarded by the king's brave guards. That that image is evocative of Arthurian legend. The bit of the legend that lead to this image was of the king's most loyal, brave, and worthy knight and friend, loved by all of the other knights. When they became enemies (0ver a beautiful woman), the knights were torn apart. For obvious reasons, we usually put SAD in Arthur's place, but for these purposes, what if SAD is Lancelot and Rhaegar is Arthur? Rhaegar isn't around to storm SAD's castle, but it could explain Ned's accusations that the KG were disloyal.
There is a lot of Arthurian legend hint's around Arthur, and it seems to fit him the best. Especially in the idea of him wielding a special sword. We never get this idea about Rhaegar, although I can't discount Rhaegar as being Arthur in this play.
Both Arthur and Ashara seem heavily layered in Arthurian mythos, but I am thinking more about the sword imagery than a tower. As for Excalibur, there are several version's of the myth's, but there seems to be a female keeper/guardian of the sword. Sometimes the claim is that this Lady of the Lake gave the sword to Arthur, sometimes he gains it in other ways, but most legends have the sword being given back to the Lady of the Lake for safe keeping. This seems like a direct nod to Ashara, who we are told received the sword back from Eddard. Now, that might not be true and is just a cover story for something else that happened which would certainly change the Arthurian hints.
Robert may think of women as things to be possessed. Lyanna's will may be irrelevant in Robert's thinking. Rhaegar has Lyanna because he had her in the end, or perhaps because both are in the underworld.
There are certain aspects of the Hades/Persephone myth here, too. Except sometimes I think Demeter's role is played by Robert and Ned, and not an angry mother. But some of those idea's probably are because in my head, Ned plays the role of king of winter while Robert plays the role of king of summer. While Persephone was missing, the world was a mess? Her kidnapping and the eventual decision for her to spend part of each year in the underworld with her husband are one explanation in Greek mythos for the seasons. For the duration of the year that Persephone was with Hades, her mother mourned and wept and the world died. Hades "had" Persephone during these times. Weirdly though, Robert has lost Lyanna, and the realm has had a 10 year summer. Does he truly mourn her loss?
I really like the notion. I'm not saying I think there is any meaningful support for it in the text, but I like it
I haven't found anything yet, but the idea just shot into my head while going through this chapter the other day. I don't know what clues there could be about Rhaegar and the crypts, but I will continue to look. There is certainly something special about the crypts.
As an aside, as I can derail myself just as well as I can derail any subject, I was reading Dany's last chapter in Storm, after the Sack of Meereen, and she is told that the Master's of Meereen traditionally bury their dead.
"Your Grace," said Missandei, "Ghiscari inter their honored dead in crypts below their manses. If you would boil the bones clean and return them to their kin, it would be a kindness."
The widows will curse me all the same. "Let it be done." Dany beckoned to Daario. "How many seek audience this morning?" ASOS-Daenerys VI
This Ghiscari tradition sounds a bit like the traditions of the Starks. Now, we are not told there are statues below the manses of the people of Meereen, but the element of the honored dead being buried in crypts below their homes, and the idea of boiling the bones clean hints to us of the bones that lie in the Stark crypts. Even the concept of Dany saying that the "widow's" will curse me all the same, reminds me of Cat staring down at Ned's bones, bones that are missing Ice, and how Tyrion later thinks he should have returned Ice with Ned's bones. This Ghiscari connection is something I never seen before, and I mostly have tried to tie the ancient Stark's to Asshai. But what is interesting about the Ghiscari and the Valyrian's, is that they were enemies, and fought wares with each other. Perhaps this hints at ancient hatred between the peoples who founded House Stark and the Valyrian's?
This seems rather obvious. So I'm not sure why it never occurred to me
After I posted this, another house with interesting black and gold imagery is House Clegane, which we are told is a fairly new house, only a couple generations old. Why did House Clegane pick these colors. The three dog's are explained in a story, but why the black and gold/yellow?
It could be possible, I guess. Who do you think me meant, if not Aerys? If suuch clues are inbedded in the text, I'd think we'd also get a hint of the alternative, or at least a viable option.
I really don't know. Rhaegar seeing the truth about Aerys makes the most sense and is the most straight forward interpretation. It also perhaps implied that Rhaegar was blind or trusting in his father far to long, and that doesn't fit the idea we are hinted at about Rhaegar perhaps moving against Aerys as early as Duskendale. I am probably a victim of myself trying to look deeper for meaning than might be necessary. It's part of the "question everything, especially what is implied" path that I am currently one.
Not saying he is. But should we discount all he says just becaus he has a crush? If so, we can rule out most of our characters and basically have little and less to build anything on.
I do think that anytime someone admires someone so much, that their impression of them could be skewed. Much like I think that Robert has perhaps a skewed perception of the real Lyanna, because he admired her too deeply without really knowing her. I also question what we hear of Rhaegar from Cersei's POV, because she seems obviously still in love (or at least to deeply admire him) with him, or at least the image she has of him in her head. But Cersei was probably more in love with the idea of Rhaegar and his power than Rhaegar himself.
However, I would imagine that JonCon knew Rhaegar better than Cersei did, even if they never were lovers. Still, his admiration is obvious and I think it does skew his thoughts. It might not change every meaning, but it's just something that I try to be aware of. I think this could apply to Ned's thoughts on Lyanna, too. Those thoughts might be skewed because he loved her so much, even if he claims to know the "iron underneath". Admiration, or lack of it, does alter our perceptions of people, even when we have been bathed in reality.
As to what GRRM might mean with the possibilities with the "unreliable narrator" in this story, I have no idea how deep it could go. I certainly don't think anyone in this story was perfect, or near perfect, and that seems to be how JonCon looks at Rhaegar, and that makes me suspicious. Hell, I LOVE The Neddard, but I don't think he was perfect by any means.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Well, a thought that just occurred to me is that the reality could be the opposite. A woman in an unguarded tower. There are such to be found in many a fairytale, and the towers are hard or impossible to escape from or enter. My memory is a bit fuzzy here, though, as I haven't had time to brush off my fairytales yet.
I could be wrong about this, and there seem to be many people who disagree, but I think GRRM uses these themes from myth and fairytale, not for a structure for his plot but as pieces to evoke the myth then move on. The beautiful woman unguarded in her tower or castle may be found in the story, but that doesn't mean that a prince will waken her. Sleeping beauty is more likely to be raped or murdered in her bed. How's that for a bed of blood?
Things are going well. I haven't been as absent as it seems, but haven't had time to participate. Partly it's work. But it partly the call of the outdoors.
Yes, this tower is very interesting. shymaid has been looking for this tower, too. I also wonder if it fell long, long ago and I don't know that this tower in this part of Ned's dream actually is the same tower that might have been located where ever the toj is at.
I can't attach myself to any approach that says they are not the same tower, but I have to admit that it is wishful thinking on my part that says the tower long-fallen is the toj.
I have not thought much on this part as being a ritual, but I suppose it could be. It is possible that there was never an actual fight with 7v3 men in the dream. All the dream really tells us "as it was in life" is the 10 men who met. Not what they actually did. Although some type of show down is certainly implied. Of course, implication can be a dangerous thing to follow in this story ...
The conversation between Ned and the KG is far too stylized to be Ned's actual words. But it points to some sort of parley, a challenge, not to battle, but to the ideals of the KG. But I think I am wandering far from the topic here of ?+?=? and I'm not sure where I going with it anyway
There is a lot of Arthurian legend hint's around Arthur, and it seems to fit him the best. Especially in the idea of him wielding a special sword. We never get this idea about Rhaegar, although I can't discount Rhaegar as being Arthur in this play.
I think it is entirely possible that SAD's story looks like Arthur at some points, Lancelot at others, and perhaps Mordred still elsewhere. GRRM seems to chop these things up
There are certain aspects of the Hades/Persephone myth here, too. Except sometimes I think Demeter's role is played by Robert and Ned, and not an angry mother.
You bring to mind a delightfully silly opera by Jacques Offenbach, "Orpheus in the Underworld." Hades steals Persephone, not from her mother, but from her husband, Orpheus. When he discovers that she has been stolen, Orpheus is delighted to be rid of her, but the Chorus of Public Opinion forces him to travel to the Underworld in an attempt to recover her.
While Persephone was missing, the world was a mess? Her kidnapping and the eventual decision for her to spend part of each year in the underworld with her husband are one explanation in Greek mythos for the seasons. For the duration of the year that Persephone was with Hades, her mother mourned and wept and the world died. Hades "had" Persephone during these times.
Since it is the Stark imagery that is most associated with the Underworld, I expect reversals here. Lyanna stealing Rhaegar is one that has been often discussed. But those years of summer could be another.
Weirdly though, Robert has lost Lyanna, and the realm has had a 10 year summer. Does he truly mourn her loss?
Robert is not so much mourning the loss of his lover as he is angry at the theft of what he thought was his. So instead of the cold darkness of sorrow, we have the heat of rage. Demeter, goddess of Spring, withdrew from the world and it was Winter. Robert, king of Summer, projects himself upon the world, and summer lingers.
Things are going well. I haven't been as absent as it seems, but haven't had time to participate. Partly it's work. But it partly the call of the outdoors.
I hear you. When the weather is nice, it's hard to stay indoor's and tie yourself to the computer. Glad things are well.
The conversation between Ned and the KG is far too stylized to be Ned's actual words. But it points to some sort of parley, a challenge, not to battle, but to the ideals of the KG. But I think I am wandering far from the topic here of ?+?=? and I'm not sure where I going with it anyway
I have no concept or control over my own derailment ability, so feel free. I love the free flow of discussion.
The conversation is stylized, I agree. Formal and methodical. I honestly don't know what it could mean, but I agree it seems stilted for an actual conversation. Or it was an actual conversation but they are talking in some sort of code.
I think it is entirely possible that SAD's story looks like Arthur at some points, Lancelot at others, and perhaps Mordred still elsewhere. GRRM seems to chop these things up
He does twist up history and myth to suit himself. Like a crooked echo or a broken mirror, it'a all somewhat altered from the original.
You bring to mind a delightfully silly opera by Jacques Offenbach, "Orpheus in the Underworld." Hades steals Persephone, not from her mother, but from her husband, Orpheus. When he discovers that she has been stolen, Orpheus is delighted to be rid of her, but the Chorus of Public Opinion forces him to travel to the Underworld in an attempt to recover her.
I will need to look into this. Perhaps hinting that whoever searched for Lyanna, or whomever was kidnapped, only did so because it would look bad if they did not.
Since it is the Stark imagery that is most associated with the Underworld, I expect reversals here. Lyanna stealing Rhaegar is one that has been often discussed. But those years of summer could be another.
I do wonder about Lyanna kidnapping someone. Every time I think of Catelyn "taking" Tyrion at the crossroads and the whole messy fallout from that decision, this idea of Lyanna rears it's head. But do we have an echo or do we have an inversion?
Robert is not so much mourning the loss of his lover as he is angry at the theft of what he thought was his. So instead of the cold darkness of sorrow, we have the heat of rage. Demeter, goddess of Spring, withdrew from the world and it was Winter. Robert, king of Summer, projects himself upon the world, and summer lingers.
Nice! This resonates for me quite well.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I have no concept or control over my own derailment ability, so feel free. I love the free flow of discussion.
The conversation is stylized, I agree. Formal and methodical. I honestly don't know what it could mean, but I agree it seems stilted for an actual conversation. Or it was an actual conversation but they are talking in some sort of code.
I'll wander around my thoughts here and see if they take me anywhere. Not the first time I've gone down this path and walked in circles for a while. But getting it into electrons and maybe having someone push back against it or play with it or steal it may be helpful or at least fun My preferred explanation for the stylized nature of the conversation is in the nature of dream and memory. For Ned, these KG were the stuff of legend. I'm not saying that he entirely bought into the myth. He was no doubt aware of the more gritty reality of these KG. But he seems to have some admiration and even reverence, at least for some of them. So he replays the conversation as myth.
”I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. ”We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. ”Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell. ”When King’s Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” ”Far away,” said Ser Gerold, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
Both questions, Ned is saying, I expected you to be where your duty should have placed you. If Ned was capable of subtlety, I would suspect that his statement was a signal that he understood that they had another duty, loyalty, or task. But maybe in his dream, he is capable of such subtlety. In each instance, the KG are saying, if we had been where you expected, Aerys (or Rhaegar) would still rule. Are they saying that they stayed away to enable Robert's victory? I would expect these answers to be a source of shame for the KG, even if they were ordered to stay away, but they turn it into a boast. So are they telling Ned that their agenda was something else?
”I came down to Storm’s End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, “and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” ”Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
Again, SAD's answer does not fit the KG duties well. KG knees do bend, to their king. So should this tell us that the KG are no longer kneelers?
”Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” ”Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. ”But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” ”Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
Again, if the king flees, it is the duty of the KG to flee with him. Kings do give orders to retreat at times and only a foolish and/or disloyal KG fails to obey that order. So I suspect that there is a hidden message here, but I'm having trouble teasing it out. Maybe this and the statement about not kneeling is telling Ned that their course more important than kings and the game of thrones. I want to think that some version of this conversation happened. Both they style and substance of it don't fit well with anything we know. So, if it happened, it should put some things in a different light. I think Ned was there for a conversation, to find out whether he and the KG had the same objectives. I think Ned's objectives were not those of Robert. I think the KG's objectives were not those of Aerys (not sure how Rhaegar fit in to this picture). I can't get much farther. Obviously we have known since the prologue of the book that something is happening in the North that may be more important than who sits on the Iron Throne. So I suspect that Ned and these KG may know about the Long Night or the Army of the Dead or something of the sort. But my only basis for that is the nature of the conflicts in our story, not anything textual that points me in that direction with respect to these KG
stdaga , someone on this site said someone took advantage of Brandon's temper and aerys' paranoia to set a flame the conspiracy set . do you know who said it ? maybe Voice or KING littlefinger?
In each instance, the KG are saying, if we had been where you expected, Aerys (or Rhaegar) would still rule. Are they saying that they stayed away to enable Robert's victory? I would expect these answers to be a source of shame for the KG, even if they were ordered to stay away, but they turn it into a boast. So are they telling Ned that their agenda was something else?
The idea that the three kingsguard took themeselves off the playing field never has occurred to me. But perhaps this could have happened. Maybe Ned is searching out why they were not where they were expected and they cagily are hinting to Ned, you should be thanking us, because if we had been where we were supposed to be, then your cause, Robert's cause, would be lost! They would not have let Rhaegar fall in battle, they would not have let Jaime kill Aerys, they would have accompanied the heir to the throne into exile until that heir could be raised up to reclaim the throne. BUT, by not being at the Trident, at King's Landing, at Dragonstone, they allowed the Targaryen dynasty to fall. I kind of like this! Not sure if it will play out, but it has potential.
So, of the four locations that are mentioned, Storm's End and Lords Tyrell and Redwyne are mentioned also, and perhaps this is also to hint that by placing a siege at Storm's End, they actually might have benefited the Rebellion but staying away from the Battle at the Trident, or defending Aerys in Kings Landing, not fleeing with the Targaryen heir into exile, or giving him a safe place to hide in his own country.
Perhaps this is all about how Ned should be aware that his side might have only won the war because SAD, Whent, Hightower, Tyrell, and Redwyne all removed themselves from the playing field?
Again, SAD's answer does not fit the KG duties well. KG knees do bend, to their king. So should this tell us that the KG are no longer kneelers.
I have never thought about this before, but the kingsguard did kneel to Aerys (and his whole family by proxy), so you are correct when you say it's almost a bald lie to say their knee's do not bend easily. Still, there are hints of this perhaps being Arthur's message about Dorne, a place which has never easily bent the knee to Targaryen rule. Are they perhaps shoving it into Eddards face that the north did indeed kneel with no fight to the Targaryen's, when Torrhen Stark knelt to Aegon on the Trident?
It's not only Dorne that carries this idea of knee's not bending easily, but we hear this repeated to us from north of the wall as well. I am not sure how it all might relate to Robert winning the rebellion. It still has a hint about it of "we won't kneel" to anyone. Perhaps they are saying we would not have knelt to Robert, but we would have knelt to you! Lot's of thoughts rolling around in my head right now.
Maybe this and the statement about not kneeling is telling Ned that their course more important than kings and the game of thrones. I want to think that some version of this conversation happened. Both they style and substance of it don't fit well with anything we know. So, if it happened, it should put some things in a different light. I think Ned was there for a conversation, to find out whether he and the KG had the same objectives. I think Ned's objectives were not those of Robert. I think the KG's objectives were not those of Aerys (not sure how Rhaegar fit in to this picture).
If it is about a greater fight, a fight coming from north and the threat of a long winter on the way, then Ned must not have taken their words for much value. We don't know by any means what Gared told Ned that day we are first introduced to Ice and Stark justice, but it doesn't seem like it convinced Eddard that he needed to remain in the north and fight the enemy that comes with the cold.
You raise some interesting thoughts. I need to think on all of this a bit more and see what it might trigger.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.