"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
Egads... that a new one for me; had to look it up in the urban dico!
Still, perhaps we could have some guesses on how 'slow-hand' george would resolve the zombie conflict?
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
I really think people are too hard on D&D. They are making a TV show.
Absolutely Dave and Dan are making a TV show, and I even have a little sympathy for them since they are working with no source material right now. It probably is difficult to adapt a story that doesn't exist. But they do have more insight into how the story ends than we have, or so we are told, so that is an advantage for them.
And they did start making little divergences from the source material from early on, and then those divergences became bigger, and suddenly, Jaime was dressed like a Sheik fighting off "bad pussy" in the desert! Oh, the butterfly effect...
But just looking at this one episode, if it stands alone, my problem lies not with how far the story has verged from the books, because I am trying to separate the two stories, it's the fact that they are more interested in presenting a spectacle than a story. Does it look cool as shit when the Dothraki charge with their flaming arakh's? Yes, it does. It does take your breath away when those flames (a metaphor for life) are extinguished? Yes, a bit, although I was already rolling my eyes a bit. Not because it didn't look cool, but because it didn't make sense to battle strategy at all.
The Blackwater is a perfect example of a battle that both looked amazing, but made sense strategically, and left us on the edge of our seats until the very end. Of course, GRRM wrote the Blackwater episode, not Dave and Dan.
I understand they are trying to give us a sense of hopelessness, while at the same time make it a spectacle to awe the viewer, but it could still be done with some logic behind it. There was very little logic in the Battle of the Bastards and this is like a ramped up version of that battle. Poor planning but it looks cool, a sensation of hopelessness but a miracle save at the end! (Yes, I am well aware that the Blackwater has a miracle save at the end, too)
Now, and I am being blunt here, if the Starks were in cohoots with the Night King, and Dany is the great enemy of them all, then this battle strategy makes sense, because Dany's strength has been decimated early on, and it seems like it was Jon's great battle strategy. She has lost her entire Dothraki horde (all except a dozen or so) and she has lost the majority of her Unsullied. If Jon would have had Rhaegal kill Drogon, then it would have felt like a trifecta against Daenerys! However, the Stark's seem not to be plotting against Dany and the Night King was just an evil zombie virus spreader, then this whole strategy doesn't seem logical. Other people have already outlined parts of the battle strategy that made no sense, so there isn't much need to repeat that.
And there were things that I liked about this episode. It was a spectacle, even if illogical, and I did feel the hopelessness of the situation. I loved a few call backs that I thought were laid into the story. Like Theon's defending of Bran in the godswood and thinking back to Season 1 when Luwin ask's Theon "oh, is there going to be a battle in the godswood?". I loved that, although I am not sure it was intentional! The exchanged between Mel and Grey Worm, the Valar Morghulis/Valar Doheris thing, it was like she was telling him all men must die and you have to sacrifice your Unsullied brother's for this cause, and his responds by saying all men must serve, as if understanding the sacrifice that they will need to make. Honestly, I don't even mind that Arya got the kill on the Night King! She has been training after all, although she didn't need to done a new face to do this. Jorah's death was emotional for me, and I don't even love his character, although I think Ian Glen is amazing in that role!
Besides the dark and choppy scenes, there were some beautifully shot scenes, and not all of it was CGI. The godswood was almost haunting, the dragons in flight, the fiery trench around Winterfell was pretty (even if it served no purpose). I think the music is always pretty great!
But I disliked very much that they had Sansa hiding in the crypts, and she didn't even attempt to comfort her people, something a 12 year old Sansa did with grace during the Blackwater, but an adult Sansa, who wants to rule the north, can't seem to manage to even be bothered with trying to comfort them. I really disliked that they destroyed Sam's growth arc in one sobbing mess of an episode. I really disliked that when Melisandre cast of her necklace and wandered into the snow to die, there was a perfect pathway between the heaps of bodies for her to walk through, as if someone had shoveled the path clear for her, and she only had to walk about 50 feet away from the castle to die clear of any bodies! Really? Those are little things I find annoying and that took me right out of the episode.
So, I do understand they are trying to make some thing that is visually stimulating for the audience, but I think they let the story line slide hoping that the visuals will hold up the episode. But I don't think it does! Right after the episode aired, the IMDB rating was 9.5 or 9.6, I can't remember and I didn't check it until about 4 hours later, so it might have started higher, but it has fallen each day, and this morning it's down to 8.9. It hasn't even been a week and those numbers are falling quickly. Rotten Tomatoes was always lower from the start and is dropping. Someone is rating the episode on those sites, and it's not all professional critics, it's fans, too! Ultimately, it comes down to the writers and producers, and it this case, that is Dave and Dan.
Now, they still have three episodes to wrap up a lot of plot holes, but I honestly don't see them doing it. I have tried hard this season to avoid spoilers, hoping that would help my enjoyment of the season, but that last episode took the wind out of my sails! I am not sure the show can get out of the doldrums now!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Post by DarkSister1001 on May 2, 2019 19:58:46 GMT
Ok, I'm ready to get in to this. I lied earlier; I did not go back through the whole thread.
Cinematically: Beautiful! Wonderfully haunting score. Dark but it was the Long Night 2.0. I felt fully immersed. The CGI was great. A DW racing into battle, a Dance of Dragons, death scenes, ice zombies, all remarkably done. The blue flames were particularly breathtaking.
Deaths:
Edd, you dour, funny, dead Edd. "Gods, Sam"
Lyanna Mormont - FN badass! I know that D&D didn't plan to have her as active as she was but kept her considering how much everyone loved her. I am one of those someones. I loved that little spit fire and I am glad she went out like she did and not knitting by the fire.
Theon - Didn't care about him, hated him, felt bad for him, loved him. What a complex character! He was destined to save Bran considering the role he played in the downfall of the Starks. I was happy that Emo Bran was able to see his need for validation and gave it to him before he went.
Ser Jorah - A true knight in the end. Dany saving him and then him saving her for the 27th time was nice. And then Drogon coming down to mourn a man that has been there mostly since his hatching. "I'm hurt". Me too, Ser knight, me too.
Beric – The Lord of Light kept him alive for a purpose. It was appropriate that he and Sandor were seemingly both destined to be there, to save Arya. One undead by a Fire God, the other afraid of fire, both men that she hated at some point. Side note – I am glad that Sandor still had a fear of fire. That kind of PTSD doesn’t just go away.
Crypts: What fn moron thought that hiding among the dead while others fight an army of the dead led by a mother fucker who could instantly raise the dead, would be a good fn idea? Honestly. I suspect the dead Starks to play a different role in the books, but groundwork has been laid for that. Were they going for a shock factor? Then they should have used an undead Ned (that would have actually been funny). Instead it was flat out insulting. WF doesn’t have a dungeon? A keep? But it suddenly has a library FULL OF SHIT THAT BURNED IN SEASON ONE. Is this what teenagers mean when they say they “can’t even”? Because I can’t fucking even.
I thought the tender moment between Sansa and Tyrion was a nice touch for their show characters. I’m glad that D&D didn’t have Sansa singing and praying like she was during the Battle of the Blackwater. That would have been wrong. Wrong for her character, wrong for the North and just wrong. But you could fertilize Westeros with the mountain of shit that I am glad D&D didn’t do.
Missendei going to bat for Dany again is super loyal, super annoying.
Strategy: Why bother having the Dothraki ride out and meet the foe? Why don’t they have dragonglass? Mel should have had to sacrifice herself in order to get the trenches lit. She’s all about burning mother fuckers to appease her God. Now he’s laying down holy gifts all willy nilly?
The Dance of Dragons: Again, beautiful. Hard to see but that was part of the immersion. Did newbie Jon have any business up there? Is Rhaegal now bound to Jon and unable to hear Dany give the command? I specifically recall all Viscerion and Rhaegal torching Dany’s enemies in Mereen without anyone telling them to. It’s possible they needed direction since they seem to have issues in the North, but that’s a stretch.
Jon shouting at Ice Vic seemed ridiculous the 1st time. Turns out he was keeping him distracted so Arya could get in to the God’s Wood. Cool, but more on that later.
The NK isn’t affected by dragonfire. Ok, I agree with that decision only because I don’t want Dany to get all the credit BUT (I like big buts), BUT “What about my magic?!” Mother of mutha truckin’ dragons is useless against the Others? Magical fire can’t do jack shit to magic ice? “Unburnt” is just a basket weaving badge? Where’s the fn balance? The symmetry? The fn logic?!
And not ONE lieutenant is taken down. Not fucking one. No Valyrian Steel show down. What about the way old dude checks out Jon’s Long Claw? Sam stressing the need for Valyrian Steel? All that was needed was 1 fn dagger. SMH
The wight’s clamoring on Drogon had me holding my breath. That shit was intense! I’ll take Walking Dead zombies over World War Z zombies any day of the week.
Arya Holy-Shit-Stick-Em-With-The-Pointy-End-Fuckin-Stark! Such The catspaws dagger, blue eyes, “What do we say to the God of Death?”, No one, Arya sneaking up on Jon in the GW…all great clues for this to be how it end. IF we ignore all other foreshadowing. Guys and gals, we’ve been watching the red herring show. Obvi. When homeboy grabbed her neck, I heard ice crack. I thought he was freezing her. I held my breath again. And then I fn cheered. Not for the story or the show or the shitty way we were led to believe in 100 different other possibilities but for my girl.
For the most part, I am treating the plot holes like a shitty street and swerving past them. I am still excited for next week. I want some gd answers.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
For the most part, I am treating the plot holes like a shitty street and swerving past them. I am still excited for next week.
That's the way to go. I've got several smalltalk with workmates about this episode. they just don't care about our book nerd theories, analysis and other foreshadowing. They don't even know there is no NK in the books. All they want is huge badass moments. D&D know this part too well.
For the most part, I am treating the plot holes like a shitty street and swerving past them. I am still excited for next week.
That's the way to go. I've got several smalltalk with workmates about this episode. they just don't care about our book nerd theories, analysis and other foreshadowing. They don't even know there is no NK in the books. All they want is huge badass moments. D&D know this part too well.
Same with my Unsullied pals. My friends are uncultured potatoes. I say that lovingly. My hubs is quasi-Unsullied and he called it underwhelming.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
The Blackwater is a perfect example of a battle that both looked amazing, but made sense strategically, and left us on the edge of our seats until the very end. Of course, GRRM wrote the Blackwater episode, not Dave and Dan.
Explains why Blackwater is still the best of the OMG battle scenes.
That's the way to go. I've got several smalltalk with workmates about this episode. they just don't care about our book nerd theories, analysis and other foreshadowing. They don't even know there is no NK in the books. All they want is huge badass moments. D&D know this part too well.
Lowest common denominator...
Also for anyone who wants a scathing reviews (Warning not for the kiddies)
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Also for anyone who wants a scathing reviews (Warning not for the kiddies)
This! This is brilliant, honestly! It sums up exactly how ridiculous most of this episode felt! I'm glad you posted it because it almost makes me feel a little bit cleaner, like I have bathed in "fuck all" honesty! Also, every cut to Tywin was darkly enjoyable!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.