I don't have a problem with it. Dance has some amazing chapters. Although, I see no reason why Feast and Dragons couldn't be trimmed down into one complete book.
Either Martin's writing has become less tight and directed over the years, or his editors have become more lax in their approach. It's probably a lot of both.
Martin likes starting things, not finishing them. He himself admits that. Fuck, in yet another thread over at reddit months ago, they posted his *sales* pitch to Harper Collins back in 93/94 where he explicitly discusses that point. Martin is a short-story / one volume novel specialist for that reason. A multi-volume cycle like that had that risk of what we are seeing today right from Day One.
Martin likes starting things, not finishing them. He himself admits that. Fuck, in yet another thread over at reddit months ago, they posted his *sales* pitch to Harper Collins back in 93/94 where he explicitly discusses that point. Martin is a short-story / one volume novel specialist for that reason. A multi-volume cycle like that had that risk of what we are seeing today right from Day One.
I find that if I know exactly where a book is going, I lose all interest in writing it
Point is: Once you wrap a story, you have to know exactly where it is going...
I've seen that, but thanks for posting it. It's good to be realistic about things, that's for sure.
I can't help but wonder if Martin isn't as married to his originally-planned ending as fans have hoped. Sure, he said he wouldn't change things based on new developments, but I trust GRRM as far as I can throw him.
He recently came up with a new twist. Who knows the butterfly effect that could spawn?
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Am I the only one who has no problem whatsoever with the DwD editing?
Maybe. I dunno. I read it fast, but I don't remember liking it as much as the first 3.
It's similar to how I view AGOT, ACOK, and ASOS as 1 novel spread out over three books (as the three make up the three acts of the original "first novel" that he planned in 1993).
So IMO it, along with Feast combined together only play out the first half of what was originally in 1993 the second book of his "trilogy" IMO. There's still the second half of that novel to cover.
It's like reading AGOT and half or maybe a little more than half of ACOK and stopping about where Arya gets taken by the Mountain, Theon about to set sail for the Stony Shore, Bran alone and depressed in Winterfell without the Reeds, Catelyn meeting with Renly at Bitterbridge, Tyrion poisoning Cersei to indispose her, Sansa hearing whispers from Ser Dontos about a possible escape, Robb saying he's got a plan but no one knowing what it is or where he'll strike yet, Jon leaving Craster's, Dany having survived the Red Waste & arriving at Qarth, and Tywin still sitting on his butt in Harrenhal.
So comparatively what's missing would be the conclusions to ACOK and all the material for ASOS. Try to imagine if we'd gotten AGOT & ACOK in that manner, and add in the splitting of the POVs and I'd think you'd get a similar effect IMO.
TWOW when paired with AFFC & ADWD will complete the story and make it whole and improve the opinion of AFFC & ADWD in retrospect IMO.
The only question I have is whether or not he can really pull off putting his "third novel" idea down in one actual seventh book or not, or if he'll need to split it into three books as well.
Can trilogies have trilogies within them? Because that's what I feel has been happening to his original plan is that the amount of material he thought would cover one book each instead covers 3 each, and then some.
Can trilogies have trilogies within them? Because that's what I feel has been happening to his original plan is that the amount of material he thought would cover one book each instead covers 3 each, and then some.
Well 7 is a magic number, but so is 9!
can he pull it off in 7 books? Sounds dubious to me. Too many unresolved story lines...
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Martin likes starting things, not finishing them. He himself admits that
Isn't that also a very ADHD trait? Not knocking him or anyone else, btw. I have ADHD too and it's a bitch!
Interesting point. Have never seen this discussed from that angle. Hypothetically, somebody should go ahead and sift through 2 years worth of NAB entries to list the number of different activities in which GRRM involves himself. Just from what I have seen/read over the years, the range may be shocking. Also, the conditions that he needs to get his aSoIaF *muse* flowing => sitting in his library at home, with his Wordstar from 88, concentrated, w/o interruptions - if not, no go. And away from home ? Not even a chance. Could fit the profile.
Am I the only one who has no problem whatsoever with the DwD editing?
No. I read ADWD twice, the first time I cringed at the archaic language (a sudden stylistic change from the previous works) and the repetitive phrases (words are wind, where do whores go, etc). Both things Anne Groell (Martin's editor) tried to remove. So I guess I am not off-base in those complaints. On the second read, which I was tricked into doing, I noticed a number of gaffes. The Girl General in The Windblown chapter is a hoot when you do the math. In another chapter, a maester or somebody seemingly hands Sam (Jon?) the same book twice. Stuff like that. I wouldn't dislike ADWD half as much if such things had been addressed before the book went to the printers. It would then qualify as a mid-range genre work. As it is, ADWD is an insult to readers. It should not have been foisted on them in its current condition.
As soon as the cameras are off I am going to fuck that little dog.
Am I the only one who has no problem whatsoever with the DwD editing?
No. I read ADWD twice, the first time I cringed at the archaic language (a sudden stylistic change from the previous works) and the repetitive phrases (words are wind, where do whores go, etc). Both things Anne Groell (Martin's editor) tried to remove. So I guess I am not off-base in those complaints. On the second read, which I was tricked into doing, I noticed a number of gaffes. The Girl General in The Windblown chapter is a hoot when you do the math. In another chapter, a maester or somebody seemingly hands Sam (Jon?) the same book twice. Stuff like that. I wouldn't dislike ADWD half as much if such things had been addressed before the book went to the printers. It would then qualify as a mid-range genre work. As it is, ADWD is an insult to readers. It should not have been foisted on them in its current condition.
While the archaic language wasn't always focused on, there were moments in the previous books where it was more present than others. The chapter where Catelyn convinces Ned to go south being one of them particularly the speech where she mentions: "you must drink of this cup", it reminds me of a lot of 1960s British History films like The Lion in Winter or Beckett in those spread out moments. They don't always remain consistent and some characters are better at it than others (Catelyn particularly) but it was there before ADWD, just not as prominent, likely because Martin himself hadn't mastered it all that well or it was heavily edited by his editors.
No. I read ADWD twice, the first time I cringed at the archaic language (a sudden stylistic change from the previous works) and the repetitive phrases (words are wind, where do whores go, etc). Both things Anne Groell (Martin's editor) tried to remove. So I guess I am not off-base in those complaints. On the second read, which I was tricked into doing, I noticed a number of gaffes. The Girl General in The Windblown chapter is a hoot when you do the math. In another chapter, a maester or somebody seemingly hands Sam (Jon?) the same book twice. Stuff like that. I wouldn't dislike ADWD half as much if such things had been addressed before the book went to the printers. It would then qualify as a mid-range genre work. As it is, ADWD is an insult to readers. It should not have been foisted on them in its current condition.
While the archaic language wasn't always focused on, there were moments in the previous books where it was more present than others. The chapter where Catelyn convinces Ned to go south being one of them particularly the speech where she mentions: "you must drink of this cup", it reminds me of a lot of 1960s British History films like The Lion in Winter or Beckett in those spread out moments. They don't always remain consistent and some characters are better at it than others (Catelyn particularly) but it was there before ADWD, just not as prominent, likely because Martin himself hadn't mastered it all that well or it was heavily edited by his editors.
No, no, my friend, this line of argumentation doesn´t stick, I´m afraid.
Work your way thru this thread here, you´ll get the stats on how aDwD went off the rails:
Also, the conditions that he needs to get his aSoIaF *muse* flowing => sitting in his library at home, with his Wordstar from 88, concentrated, w/o interruptions
Hey look! Winter is coming after all! It's GRRM sitting in his library at home, with his Wordstar from 88, writing Winds of Winter!!!!
On the second read, which I was tricked into doing
Yet another story that demands an explanation.
A member at IWC? started a thread for an ADWD reread. I thought what the hell, took it seriously and gave it a close read. The OP didn't bother to read it for their thread.
Never trust the Dutch.
As soon as the cameras are off I am going to fuck that little dog.
A member at IWC? started a thread for an ADWD reread. I thought what the hell, took it seriously and gave it a close read. The OP didn't bother to read it for their thread.
Never trust the Dutch.
I tend to abandon my OPs as well...
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
It´s crazy - he just goes on and on with his Puppies stuff.
Well I just saw this post on Westeros in general linking this funny reddit by a guy who has claimed to have read the last two books of course it's not true, but it would be great if the books were written and just waiting...
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones