I don't know about voice switch theory much she talked about it as a crackpot,
If it's any consolation, I don't remember that crackpot either. Lol
It's okay lol, I remember your post because for me Ned and Benjen switching places made sense to understand why Ned wasn't thinking about Ashara if they were in love, if there was no switch, then it is possible Benjen was the Stark she loved.
I yhink Baristan will die too, I am kinda happy tbh couldn't stand his one sided Ashara love and I love my panther man Victarion alot to see him alive
I strangely like Victarion. He isn't very smart, and he's kind of a dick, and all his sacrifices of people to which ever god they chose to go to are totally creepy, plus his casualness about many terrible things should be offensive, but I find that I enjoy him. He's like a dirty, guilty pleasure. I don't think his fate is much different than Barristan's but I hope he goes out in battle and not as some sad sacrifice that Euron serves up. Poor Aeron, he's really in a mess!
Like father like daughter, I wonder what kind of death list Sansa would have? The Queen, Olenna, Meryn Trant? I don't want Gold Cloaks to go down much since their current leader the Kettleback reminds me of Stannis.
Honestly, it's kind of weird to me that Ned included the gold cloaks in his pledge/prayer, but he did. Perhaps he still has some bitterness towards the gold cloak organization over the Sack of Kingslanding? Once the Lannister's started sacking the city, did they do anything to stop it, or did they join in?
Sansa's prayers would be interesting. Cersei sure as shit better be on that list, which would mean that Ned, Arya and Sasna have condemned her. She's going down! My question is , did she at one point pray for the death of her father or Arya in regards to Lady's fate. She certainly expresses that she wished Arya had died instead of Lady, but is it ever a prayer?
I also don't think Lyanna had grey eyes even though she looks like Arya, I think she may have blue eyes. I am skeptical that Ned was really a ward, although I suspect it myself because I have no reason to believe I am right since we don't know why Aerys would claim a ward from North.
I will not be at all surprised if she doesn't have dark hair or grey eyes. The fact that GRRM has been so elusive with any actual facts on what she looked like stands out to me as a clue that she does not look like what we think she looks like.
And, I was thinking of you the other day, and our talks about the Blackwood's and the Bracken's, when FB tried to sell me some t-shirts. I will try to post the picture. I am struggling with that, but here is thepinterestshirt.com/gondor-calls-for-aid-and-rohan-will-answer-shirt/ to see the advert.
Any way, the white tree symbol with the "Gondor calls for aid" and the horse symbol with the "and Rohan will answer" struck me as very Tree=Blackwood and Horse=Bracken. I have never really thought of the symbols before but this seems like a clear hint/homage from GRRM to these great houses of men in LotR, and perhaps a hint to what might happen with the Blackwood and Brackens in the future. Or even all the symbolic horse houses and the symbolic tree houses!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I yhink Baristan will die too, I am kinda happy tbh couldn't stand his one sided Ashara love and I love my panther man Victarion alot to see him alive
I strangely like Victarion. He isn't very smart, and he's kind of a dick, and all his sacrifices of people to which ever god they chose to go to are totally creepy, plus his casualness about many terrible things should be offensive, but I find that I enjoy him. He's like a dirty, guilty pleasure. I don't think his fate is much different than Barristan's but I hope he goes out in battle and not as some sad sacrifice that Euron serves up. Poor Aeron, he's really in a mess!
Like father like daughter, I wonder what kind of death list Sansa would have? The Queen, Olenna, Meryn Trant? I don't want Gold Cloaks to go down much since their current leader the Kettleback reminds me of Stannis.
Honestly, it's kind of weird to me that Ned included the gold cloaks in his pledge/prayer, but he did. Perhaps he still has some bitterness towards the gold cloak organization over the Sack of Kingslanding? Once the Lannister's started sacking the city, did they do anything to stop it, or did they join in?
Sansa's prayers would be interesting. Cersei sure as shit better be on that list, which would mean that Ned, Arya and Sasna have condemned her. She's going down! My question is , did she at one point pray for the death of her father or Arya in regards to Lady's fate. She certainly expresses that she wished Arya had died instead of Lady, but is it ever a prayer?
I also don't think Lyanna had grey eyes even though she looks like Arya, I think she may have blue eyes. I am skeptical that Ned was really a ward, although I suspect it myself because I have no reason to believe I am right since we don't know why Aerys would claim a ward from North.
I will not be at all surprised if she doesn't have dark hair or grey eyes. The fact that GRRM has been so elusive with any actual facts on what she looked like stands out to me as a clue that she does not look like what we think she looks like.
And, I was thinking of you the other day, and our talks about the Blackwood's and the Bracken's, when FB tried to sell me some t-shirts. I will try to post the picture. I am struggling with that, but here is thepinterestshirt.com/gondor-calls-for-aid-and-rohan-will-answer-shirt/ to see the advert.
Any way, the white tree symbol with the "Gondor calls for aid" and the horse symbol with the "and Rohan will answer" struck me as very Tree=Blackwood and Horse=Bracken. I have never really thought of the symbols before but this seems like a clear hint/homage from GRRM to these great houses of men in LotR, and perhaps a hint to what might happen with the Blackwood and Brackens in the future. Or even all the symbolic horse houses and the symbolic tree houses!
I like Victarion because his armor tbh superfical I know but a physically atractive man with great fashion sense should be appreciated - I have no idea if I am writing any of these words correctly, I don't see Gold Cloaks doing anything for the city during the sack tbh so Ned would include them in his list but did he actually care enough for Elia, I know he is thinking of children, yeah I think we will learn Lyanna had fair skin of Starks and blue grey eyes which will make Jon's mother a mystery again, if that happens though could NAJ gain popularity, in my first reads I did think NAJ was true but now I believe Ashara gave birth to Allyria after tourney, and would lean towards NWJ.
I don't know much about Gondor and Rohan, is it possible Bracken's have ties to Green Men?
Did you see how Yoren looked closely at Arya the first time they met ? he was seeing a ghost
I know we have discussed the idea that Yoren helped Lyanna in the past and it might be possible. I have also wondered this. He certainly is willing to risk a lot to save her. The ghost concept is interesting, because lately, even though Ghost is a male, I am starting to connect him more to Lyanna than to any other character. Lyanna is the ghost of Jon's story, and I am have also been wondering if because GRRM is so light on details about Lya's appearance if she could possibly have been albino? I know that's really crazy talk...
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I like Victarion because his armor tbh superfical I know but a physically atractive man with great fashion sense should be appreciated - I have no idea if I am writing any of these words correctly, I don't see Gold Cloaks doing anything for the city during the sack tbh so Ned would include them in his list but did he actually care enough for Elia, I know he is thinking of children, yeah I think we will learn Lyanna had fair skin of Starks and blue grey eyes which will make Jon's mother a mystery again, if that happens though could NAJ gain popularity, in my first reads I did think NAJ was true but now I believe Ashara gave birth to Allyria after tourney, and would lean towards NWJ.
I don't know why Ned would curse the whole organization, but he seems to. The Gold Cloaks are just as much responsible for the deaths of Ned's men as Slynt is, but it does seem odd to blame a group as a whole, which would indicate punishing the whole group for the actions of only some, but I am beginning to wonder if that isn't what happened to the Starks thousands of years ago. One or two or three of them fooked up, and then everyone of them as paid a price since that time.
Victarion is sort of fun character to read. I feel a bit bad for him, but in a way, he is a bit like Cersei, who just keeps blaming other people for his problems. I do think there is some thing special about his pork rind crackling hand, and it almost seems like he should be destined to wield a special weapon.
I think that Lyanna's coloring might surprise us, but my current flavor of tinfoil is that she is an albino. It'a hard to imagine that very specific detail would not get mentioned, though...
I don't know much about Gondor and Rohan, is it possible Bracken's have ties to Green Men?
I just find the concepts of the horse lords and the tree lords being both neighbors and sometimes allies and sometimes enemies are interesting. It might be that GRRM just picked the sigils of two houses as a homage to both Gondor and Rohan, and it really means nothing more than that.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I like Victarion because his armor tbh superfical I know but a physically atractive man with great fashion sense should be appreciated - I have no idea if I am writing any of these words correctly, I don't see Gold Cloaks doing anything for the city during the sack tbh so Ned would include them in his list but did he actually care enough for Elia, I know he is thinking of children, yeah I think we will learn Lyanna had fair skin of Starks and blue grey eyes which will make Jon's mother a mystery again, if that happens though could NAJ gain popularity, in my first reads I did think NAJ was true but now I believe Ashara gave birth to Allyria after tourney, and would lean towards NWJ.
I don't know why Ned would curse the whole organization, but he seems to. The Gold Cloaks are just as much responsible for the deaths of Ned's men as Slynt is, but it does seem odd to blame a group as a whole, which would indicate punishing the whole group for the actions of only some, but I am beginning to wonder if that isn't what happened to the Starks thousands of years ago. One or two or three of them fooked up, and then everyone of them as paid a price since that time.
Victarion is sort of fun character to read. I feel a bit bad for him, but in a way, he is a bit like Cersei, who just keeps blaming other people for his problems. I do think there is some thing special about his pork rind crackling hand, and it almost seems like he should be destined to wield a special weapon.
I think that Lyanna's coloring might surprise us, but my current flavor of tinfoil is that she is an albino. It'a hard to imagine that very specific detail would not get mentioned, though...
I don't know much about Gondor and Rohan, is it possible Bracken's have ties to Green Men?
I just find the concepts of the horse lords and the tree lords being both neighbors and sometimes allies and sometimes enemies are interesting. It might be that GRRM just picked the sigils of two houses as a homage to both Gondor and Rohan, and it really means nothing more than that.
I thik there might be a reason for Victarion to lose chapter names with descrition unlike Aeron and Asha, if Lyanna was an albino they would surely mention that, if Lyanna had blue eyes of fair hair that might go unnoticed due to her Stark features. Grrm seem to write characters like Samwell, Rosey and Aegon similar to Tolkien's Samwise, Rosie and Aragorn. Would he let us know about Aegon's tax policy?
I thik there might be a reason for Victarion to lose chapter names with descrition unlike Aeron and Asha, if Lyanna was an albino they would surely mention that, if Lyanna had blue eyes of fair hair that might go unnoticed due to her Stark features. Grrm seem to write characters like Samwell, Rosey and Aegon similar to Tolkien's Samwise, Rosie and Aragorn. Would he let us know about Aegon's tax policy?
The choice of the chapter names in Feast and Dance have some meaning that we don't understand, although it might mean several things. Certainly identity is one of those things, not a hidden identity, but perhaps not having embraced whom you are. We see that pattern in Theon/Reek/prince-ghost of WF/Theon again. I don't think that is as apparent with the Asha and Aeron chapters, though. Victarion's chapters are also a mystery of character change and development.
I agree that it seems like IF Lyanna was an albino, it would make sense that it was mentioned, but I can't help but tie Ghost to Lyanna in some ways. There is a line in the story where Varys talks about Robert's bastards, and how they all have black hair, no matter their mother's hair color. "Their mothers were copper and honey, chestnut and butter, yet the babes were all black as ravens..." which has always lead me to believe that Robert is attracted to women with these hair colors. Here are blonds and red heads and perhaps brown with red highlights (chestnut is debatable, I know), which certainly isn't albino, nor the plain brown hair of the Stark's. Robert was attracted to Lyanna, and so it seems like her hair color should fit the color's he is drawn to.
GRRM better explain some tax policies at the end of this, since this is one of his biggest criticism's of Tolkien's LotR.
BTW, I am not sure that what is living in Victarion's body is really Victarion anymore!
ETA: I do think it's very possible that Lyanna has the reddish brown hair color that is seen in some of the Stark children, like Robb and Bran and Rickon. Sansa's hair is different, closer to Copper, so it's possible Lyanna could have displayed this as well, but I find it less likely. I have speculated that Benjen's hair is this red-brown similar to Bran's, and Lyanna's could have been that same color. This would take care of the copper and red-brown (chestnut) hair that Robert seems to find attractive. I also think Rickard Stark had red/brown hair. If this is so, it would actually given Ned and Cat's children more of a Stark look than a Tully look, though there is no doubt that Cat see's some of Edmure in Robb, also.
Last Edit: Apr 28, 2020 14:57:11 GMT by stdaga: ETA
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I thik there might be a reason for Victarion to lose chapter names with descrition unlike Aeron and Asha, if Lyanna was an albino they would surely mention that, if Lyanna had blue eyes of fair hair that might go unnoticed due to her Stark features. Grrm seem to write characters like Samwell, Rosey and Aegon similar to Tolkien's Samwise, Rosie and Aragorn. Would he let us know about Aegon's tax policy?
The choice of the chapter names in Feast and Dance have some meaning that we don't understand, although it might mean several things. Certainly identity is one of those things, not a hidden identity, but perhaps not having embraced whom you are. We see that pattern in Theon/Reek/prince-ghost of WF/Theon again. I don't think that is as apparent with the Asha and Aeron chapters, though. Victarion's chapters are also a mystery of character change and development.
I agree that it seems like IF Lyanna was an albino, it would make sense that it was mentioned, but I can't help but tie Ghost to Lyanna in some ways. There is a line in the story where Varys talks about Robert's bastards, and how they all have black hair, no matter their mother's hair color. "Their mothers were copper and honey, chestnut and butter, yet the babes were all black as ravens..." which has always lead me to believe that Robert is attracted to women with these hair colors. Here are blonds and red heads and perhaps brown with red highlights (chestnut is debatable, I know), which certainly isn't albino, nor the plain brown hair of the Stark's. Robert was attracted to Lyanna, and so it seems like her hair color should fit the color's he is drawn to.
GRRM better explain some tax policies at the end of this, since this is one of his biggest criticism's of Tolkien's LotR.
BTW, I am not sure that what is living in Victarion's body is really Victarion anymore!
ETA: I do think it's very possible that Lyanna has the reddish brown hair color that is seen in some of the Stark children, like Robb and Bran and Rickon. Sansa's hair is different, closer to Copper, so it's possible Lyanna could have displayed this as well, but I find it less likely. I have speculated that Benjen's hair is this red-brown similar to Bran's, and Lyanna's could have been that same color. This would take care of the copper and red-brown (chestnut) hair that Robert seems to find attractive. I also think Rickard Stark had red/brown hair. If this is so, it would actually given Ned and Cat's children more of a Stark look than a Tully look, though there is no doubt that Cat see's some of Edmure in Robb, also.
Who is Victarion now for you, are there Rhllor demons that can posses body?
Well Val has honey blonde hair, once it turns pale, but Jon says her hair is dark honey which is close to chestnut, I actually believe Ashara had dark honey blonde too, only butter from Robert's baby mother stands out from the rest. Which prominent first men famlily would have reddish hair that married Starks, I suspect House Crane to have reddish hair like House Redwyne but we have no Crane-Stark marriage except Rose of RL and Brandon of the BB.
ETA: you know how Edric Dayne's cloak is lilac and we learn Thoros' cloak was red that faded into pink, is it possible Dayne cloak was originally amethyst? And why do you think Thoros summoned little Ned when he resurrected Beric last time, Ned was with them first time too, is it possible he attened every life kiss ceremony?
Who is Victarion now for you, are there Rhllor demons that can posses body?
I don't even know quite what I mean by that, but he has an odd loss of POV near the end of his last chapter. The last paragraph he thinks of himself as both Victarion and Victarion Greyjoy, so it must be him, but he feels different in some way. Maybe something is coexisting within him, though. Some spirit? I don't know. I know that I look forward to Victarion's next POV, whenever we get that.
Well Val has honey blonde hair, once it turns pale, but Jon says her hair is dark honey which is close to chestnut, I actually believe Ashara had dark honey blonde too, only butter from Robert's baby mother stands out from the rest. Which prominent first men famlily would have reddish hair that married Starks, I suspect House Crane to have reddish hair like House Redwyne but we have no Crane-Stark marriage except Rose of RL and Brandon of the BB.
I will admit that Barristan is the only clue to Ashara's hair color and he calls it dark. Now, that could be several shades of dark, but I am not sure honey is one of those. I can see black, brown, even dark red, but I am not sure about blond. Time will tell, I am sure. Myself, I see chestnut as medium brown to dark brown, with some hints of red in it, but I suppose it's different for everyone. Some box dyes don't consider "chestnut" to be red at all.
As to Rose and Brandon, I do speculate they are the start of House Stark, or at least a bastard child of theirs, but I don't know that we have any proof yet. Just the blue rose hints. As a matter of fact, if they were not supposed to have children together, but did, then perhaps that is why Brandon found his future outside of the Reach, and probably was responsible for the bastard child, as well.
ETA: you know how Edric Dayne's cloak is lilac and we learn Thoros' cloak was red that faded into pink, is it possible Dayne cloak was originally amethyst? And why do you think Thoros summoned little Ned when he resurrected Beric last time, Ned was with them first time too, is it possible he attened every life kiss ceremony?
Edric's cloak is described as pale purple specifically, and while that could be lilac, it might not be either. It certainly could be now faded to this color and might be meant to represent a darker color. Interestingly, Viserys' eye color is lilac or pale lilac, which I do think is meant to be a hint to us. As far as why Ned is summoned for Beric's resurrection could be several reasons, from as simple as Ned is Beric's squire, also Ned has also seen this magic before and won't be shocked by it again, to Ned is the catalyst that makes the magic work, to perhaps it's Ned who gives Beric life and not Thoros at all. In my mind, I think that Ned has been around for every time Beric was revived, but I don't know that the text tells us that for sure. I would have to dig into those chapters though, as a reminder. As far as the Dayne sigil and it's color, I think that our only specific color reference is to "lilac" but that doesn't come from the text, it only comes from the Citadel heraldry. I think GRRM was trying to be coy about it, but then Elio put that information out there about the "lilac" hints. What is odd, is that some of the wiki page says "lavender" and some of it still says "lilac". It used to all say lilac. I remember this came up a couple of years ago as part of a discussion.
According to heraldry, the Dayne color is "purpure" which is the heraldic equivalent of purple. It's not light or dark or in any way specific, so I am not really sure what the Dayne sigil background color is intended to be. I am not sure that GRRM was thinking with this heraldic tincure in mind in his early sigil designs, and sometimes I think that all the "help" he got might have made this more muddied than if they would have just left it to the specific words he used in the text, not trying to tie things to proper heraldry.
The Stark heraldry, when looking at the wiki description is "Argent, a direwolf courant cendrée", with Argent being the white or silver actually (but depicted as white), and Cendree being ash-grey. Courant is represented as running, and is tied to the direwolf. I always wondered why GRRM had the direwolf running in association to the Stark's. If that was a hint or just the way he pictured it in his mind?
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Who is Victarion now for you, are there Rhllor demons that can posses body?
I don't even know quite what I mean by that, but he has an odd loss of POV near the end of his last chapter. The last paragraph he thinks of himself as both Victarion and Victarion Greyjoy, so it must be him, but he feels different in some way. Maybe something is coexisting within him, though. Some spirit? I don't know. I know that I look forward to Victarion's next POV, whenever we get that.
Well Val has honey blonde hair, once it turns pale, but Jon says her hair is dark honey which is close to chestnut, I actually believe Ashara had dark honey blonde too, only butter from Robert's baby mother stands out from the rest. Which prominent first men famlily would have reddish hair that married Starks, I suspect House Crane to have reddish hair like House Redwyne but we have no Crane-Stark marriage except Rose of RL and Brandon of the BB.
I will admit that Barristan is the only clue to Ashara's hair color and he calls it dark. Now, that could be several shades of dark, but I am not sure honey is one of those. I can see black, brown, even dark red, but I am not sure about blond. Time will tell, I am sure. Myself, I see chestnut as medium brown to dark brown, with some hints of red in it, but I suppose it's different for everyone. Some box dyes don't consider "chestnut" to be red at all.
As to Rose and Brandon, I do speculate they are the start of House Stark, or at least a bastard child of theirs, but I don't know that we have any proof yet. Just the blue rose hints. As a matter of fact, if they were not supposed to have children together, but did, then perhaps that is why Brandon found his future outside of the Reach, and probably was responsible for the bastard child, as well.
ETA: you know how Edric Dayne's cloak is lilac and we learn Thoros' cloak was red that faded into pink, is it possible Dayne cloak was originally amethyst? And why do you think Thoros summoned little Ned when he resurrected Beric last time, Ned was with them first time too, is it possible he attened every life kiss ceremony?
Edric's cloak is described as pale purple specifically, and while that could be lilac, it might not be either. It certainly could be now faded to this color and might be meant to represent a darker color. Interestingly, Viserys' eye color is lilac or pale lilac, which I do think is meant to be a hint to us. As far as why Ned is summoned for Beric's resurrection could be several reasons, from as simple as Ned is Beric's squire, also Ned has also seen this magic before and won't be shocked by it again, to Ned is the catalyst that makes the magic work, to perhaps it's Ned who gives Beric life and not Thoros at all. In my mind, I think that Ned has been around for every time Beric was revived, but I don't know that the text tells us that for sure. I would have to dig into those chapters though, as a reminder. As far as the Dayne sigil and it's color, I think that our only specific color reference is to "lilac" but that doesn't come from the text, it only comes from the Citadel heraldry. I think GRRM was trying to be coy about it, but then Elio put that information out there about the "lilac" hints. What is odd, is that some of the wiki page says "lavender" and some of it still says "lilac". It used to all say lilac. I remember this came up a couple of years ago as part of a discussion.
According to heraldry, the Dayne color is "purpure" which is the heraldic equivalent of purple. It's not light or dark or in any way specific, so I am not really sure what the Dayne sigil background color is intended to be. I am not sure that GRRM was thinking with this heraldic tincure in mind in his early sigil designs, and sometimes I think that all the "help" he got might have made this more muddied than if they would have just left it to the specific words he used in the text, not trying to tie things to proper heraldry.
The Stark heraldry, when looking at the wiki description is "Argent, a direwolf courant cendrée", with Argent being the white or silver actually (but depicted as white), and Cendree being ash-grey. Courant is represented as running, and is tied to the direwolf. I always wondered why GRRM had the direwolf running in association to the Stark's. If that was a hint or just the way he pictured it in his mind?
Maybe Victarion hides his real identity as Victarion around his men and family? Crackpot I know but I always suspected Victarion was molested by Euron too but hide it due to Ironbron culture.
Blonde hair can become brown with age, and dark honey blonde, that shade specifically can resemble chestnut too,though I want Ashara to be blondish for theory purposes.
I think Brandon the Builder is son of Brandon and Rose, a descendant of Garth, who was active in south before crossing the Neck after the pact at Isle of Faces.
If Ned Dayne is tied to Beric's resurrection and called a polite boy, are we supposed to think of Kindly Men or am I going crazy.
Maybe Victarion hides his real identity as Victarion around his men and family? Crackpot I know but I always suspected Victarion was molested by Euron too but hide it due to Ironbron culture.
I don't even know if that happened to Aeron. I think he was "molesting" their minds, although I know many people suspect it was their bodies. I think he was practicing skin changing them. As to Victarion before and after the "pork crackling" hand, perhaps he is just full of confidence now. Something seems different, and there is an odd loss of POV for a paragraph or two.
Blonde hair can become brown with age, and dark honey blonde, that shade specifically can resemble chestnut too,though I want Ashara to be blondish for theory purposes.
I do agree with this in real life, but I am not sure that GRRM pays that much attention to the transitions of hair color. He certainly might!
I think Brandon the Builder is son of Brandon and Rose, a descendant of Garth, who was active in south before crossing the Neck after the pact at Isle of Faces.
Well, this makes sense to me, and I have long thought Brandon and Rose might have had a child. It was my argument years ago that incest might not be so outlandish to the First Men, based on Brandon and Rose. Yet we know that Rose's descendants are linked to House Crane, so I wonder if she and Brandon had one child together, which he took with him, and she remained in the south. I do think this bird imagery could be interesting in some of the Stark's. Arya has an incident where she watches swans on the Gods Eye, and I don't think swans are that different than cranes. There is a bit of heron imagery in the story, also.
If Ned Dayne is tied to Beric's resurrection and called a polite boy, are we supposed to think of Kindly Men or am I going crazy.
That is an interesting observation. There might be something to it. Jaqen is also noted to be polite by Arya, so this might be a link between politeness and the HoBaW?
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Maybe Victarion hides his real identity as Victarion around his men and family? Crackpot I know but I always suspected Victarion was molested by Euron too but hide it due to Ironbron culture.
I don't even know if that happened to Aeron. I think he was "molesting" their minds, although I know many people suspect it was their bodies. I think he was practicing skin changing them. As to Victarion before and after the "pork crackling" hand, perhaps he is just full of confidence now. Something seems different, and there is an odd loss of POV for a paragraph or two.
Blonde hair can become brown with age, and dark honey blonde, that shade specifically can resemble chestnut too,though I want Ashara to be blondish for theory purposes.
I do agree with this in real life, but I am not sure that GRRM pays that much attention to the transitions of hair color. He certainly might!
I think Brandon the Builder is son of Brandon and Rose, a descendant of Garth, who was active in south before crossing the Neck after the pact at Isle of Faces.
Well, this makes sense to me, and I have long thought Brandon and Rose might have had a child. It was my argument years ago that incest might not be so outlandish to the First Men, based on Brandon and Rose. Yet we know that Rose's descendants are linked to House Crane, so I wonder if she and Brandon had one child together, which he took with him, and she remained in the south. I do think this bird imagery could be interesting in some of the Stark's. Arya has an incident where she watches swans on the Gods Eye, and I don't think swans are that different than cranes. There is a bit of heron imagery in the story, also.
If Ned Dayne is tied to Beric's resurrection and called a polite boy, are we supposed to think of Kindly Men or am I going crazy.
That is an interesting observation. There might be something to it. Jaqen is also noted to be polite by Arya, so this might be a link between politeness and the HoBaW?
I think Euron molested them physically and mentally, though he seem to take victarion to brothel to made a man out of him and use third party for sex, he also failed to make Victarion drink Nightshade.
If Rose was a Skinchanger and not Brandon, it might explain why Starks have bird image, Winged Wolf, Sansa as Little Bird, Arya and swans, even Ned had birds during his death, crows around Bran and Jon etc. I also think Giant who wanted Maris the Maid was her half brother John the Oak, I might be wrong.
I don't think Children of the Forest and Many Faced God believers don't see death as a bad thing as long as your body is given to them and your spirit enter their hive system, they use your corpse and even your "ghost" for their gain but offer you some after life instead of emptyness, similar to A Song for Lya, I think Rhllor and fire worshippers have a hive mind of their own hence a song of ice and fire, song is not a music like in A Song for Lya and Armageddon Rag. But what does Dayne's believe in? We don't have a smilar system for the Seven if Seven is not part of Many Faced God.
I think Euron molested them physically and mentally, though he seem to take victarion to brothel to made a man out of him and use third party for sex, he also failed to make Victarion drink Nightshade.
If Euron had Victarion captured and held in the same way that he does Aeron, then I think he forces the Nightshade on him. But I think Euron needs Victarion for different goals, so he doesn't dare risk that. After all, Victarion controls the Iron Fleet. But Aeron he is willing to use in that way, to use his visions, and that might because Aeron is different than Victarion in some way. My guess is that Euron can see Aeron's visions, whereas he might not be able to do the same with Victarion's. I doubt we will ever have any confirmation of the molestation concept, or not.
If Rose was a Skinchanger and not Brandon, it might explain why Starks have bird image, Winged Wolf, Sansa as Little Bird, Arya and swans, even Ned had birds during his death, crows around Bran and Jon etc. I also think Giant who wanted Maris the Maid was her half brother John the Oak, I might be wrong.
My initial thoughts were that they all were skinchangers, these children of Garth, but now I am not so sure. It seems that it's hinted at in just certain children of his, at least in how it's passed down to certain lines. And the bird imagery in the Stark's might all go back to Rose, the blue rose of Red Lake. Why did Brandon feel he had to kill all those CotF? Was it anger? Conquest? A sacrifice of some sort? Did he do it to win his Rose?
I will say I do think that the males in this genetic line can be skinchangers, I just think it might take women to pass the gene to the next generation, so it's needed in both lines to make sure the gene survives in the children, and the line can continue with this gift.
I am curious what you see in Argoth the Grey Giant, Argoth Stone-Skin, that ties him to John the Oak for you? John was said to have a giantess for a mother, but I am not sure if there is any more symbolism that I see. And maybe that is all we will ever get, and it's more than I have ever noticied, so I appreciate the hint. I would like it if this idea turned out to be the case. We do know that John the Oak must have had children since he passed this line down to House Oakheart. And there are certainly odd little acorn hints scattered around the story, which could tie to Garth Greenhand, John the Oak and Garth the Gardener (sometimes it seems to me that the Garth's are the same, both father and son). Often in the story there is mention of oaks and grey-green sentinels tied in the same places, but they are clearly not the same tree. I am trying to connect the Grey nickname to oaks. Interestingly, I never noticed that the great wolf seat of House Stark is actually carved of oak and lined with grey cushions. Bran is seated on it during the Harvest Festival. Is this a call back to the great oak seat of House Gardener that resides at Highgarden. Perhaps there are hints that tie House Stark to all of Garth's children. Of course, there is also the war crown that House Gardener wore, that was bronze and iron, which also ties to the materials of the crown of Winter. I can't help but think more and more this story will come back to the Houses that claim descent from Garth Greenhand and how that all seems to touch House Stark in some way.
I don't think Children of the Forest and Many Faced God believers don't see death as a bad thing as long as your body is given to them and your spirit enter their hive system, they use your corpse and even your "ghost" for their gain but offer you some after life instead of emptyness, similar to A Song for Lya, I think Rhllor and fire worshippers have a hive mind of their own hence a song of ice and fire, song is not a music like in A Song for Lya and Armageddon Rag. But what does Dayne's believe in? We don't have a smilar system for the Seven if Seven is not part of Many Faced God.
Well, certain aspects of the Faith of the Seven seem tied to the Other's, mostly the Stranger, who is tied to death and usually lacks a face, although once I think we see that face tied to stars for eyes and another time the Stranger's face is animalistic, hinting at skinchanging. That aspect of the Faith I think strongly ties to a life ever after. It just happens to be the taboo part of the Faith of the Seven, the part that people rarely worship or pray to, but everyone knows is waiting for them.
The Armageddon Rag is one of GRRM's stories that I have not read yet, so I can't really say anything about that. But A Song for Lya certainly has the hive mind at work, as does And Seven Times Never Kill Man. A Song for Lya is a bit creepy just because of the brain parasite that you wear like a cloak and then you eventually walk into the great mass of the hive. But it's hard not to draw connections to this story and that, just based on Lya/Lyanna. It would not shock me at all to find that Lyanna gave up her own life to join her conscious to a hive mind, the weirnet in this this story, and that her "ghost" still remains a part of the life of her family and of Winterfell. Probably all the places that the weirnet touches.
And like Lya touches out to Robb in dreams in A Song for Lya, does Lyanna touch out to the minds of people like Ned and Jon, and perhaps others she was close to, such as Benjen, although we never have any hints of Benjen's dreams.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I think Euron molested them physically and mentally, though he seem to take victarion to brothel to made a man out of him and use third party for sex, he also failed to make Victarion drink Nightshade.
If Euron had Victarion captured and held in the same way that he does Aeron, then I think he forces the Nightshade on him. But I think Euron needs Victarion for different goals, so he doesn't dare risk that. After all, Victarion controls the Iron Fleet. But Aeron he is willing to use in that way, to use his visions, and that might because Aeron is different than Victarion in some way. My guess is that Euron can see Aeron's visions, whereas he might not be able to do the same with Victarion's. I doubt we will ever have any confirmation of the molestation concept, or not.
If Rose was a Skinchanger and not Brandon, it might explain why Starks have bird image, Winged Wolf, Sansa as Little Bird, Arya and swans, even Ned had birds during his death, crows around Bran and Jon etc. I also think Giant who wanted Maris the Maid was her half brother John the Oak, I might be wrong.
My initial thoughts were that they all were skinchangers, these children of Garth, but now I am not so sure. It seems that it's hinted at in just certain children of his, at least in how it's passed down to certain lines. And the bird imagery in the Stark's might all go back to Rose, the blue rose of Red Lake. Why did Brandon feel he had to kill all those CotF? Was it anger? Conquest? A sacrifice of some sort? Did he do it to win his Rose?
I will say I do think that the males in this genetic line can be skinchangers, I just think it might take women to pass the gene to the next generation, so it's needed in both lines to make sure the gene survives in the children, and the line can continue with this gift.
I am curious what you see in Argoth the Grey Giant, Argoth Stone-Skin, that ties him to John the Oak for you? John was said to have a giantess for a mother, but I am not sure if there is any more symbolism that I see. And maybe that is all we will ever get, and it's more than I have ever noticied, so I appreciate the hint. I would like it if this idea turned out to be the case. We do know that John the Oak must have had children since he passed this line down to House Oakheart. And there are certainly odd little acorn hints scattered around the story, which could tie to Garth Greenhand, John the Oak and Garth the Gardener (sometimes it seems to me that the Garth's are the same, both father and son). Often in the story there is mention of oaks and grey-green sentinels tied in the same places, but they are clearly not the same tree. I am trying to connect the Grey nickname to oaks. Interestingly, I never noticed that the great wolf seat of House Stark is actually carved of oak and lined with grey cushions. Bran is seated on it during the Harvest Festival. Is this a call back to the great oak seat of House Gardener that resides at Highgarden. Perhaps there are hints that tie House Stark to all of Garth's children. Of course, there is also the war crown that House Gardener wore, that was bronze and iron, which also ties to the materials of the crown of Winter. I can't help but think more and more this story will come back to the Houses that claim descent from Garth Greenhand and how that all seems to touch House Stark in some way.
I don't think Children of the Forest and Many Faced God believers don't see death as a bad thing as long as your body is given to them and your spirit enter their hive system, they use your corpse and even your "ghost" for their gain but offer you some after life instead of emptyness, similar to A Song for Lya, I think Rhllor and fire worshippers have a hive mind of their own hence a song of ice and fire, song is not a music like in A Song for Lya and Armageddon Rag. But what does Dayne's believe in? We don't have a smilar system for the Seven if Seven is not part of Many Faced God.
Well, certain aspects of the Faith of the Seven seem tied to the Other's, mostly the Stranger, who is tied to death and usually lacks a face, although once I think we see that face tied to stars for eyes and another time the Stranger's face is animalistic, hinting at skinchanging. That aspect of the Faith I think strongly ties to a life ever after. It just happens to be the taboo part of the Faith of the Seven, the part that people rarely worship or pray to, but everyone knows is waiting for them.
The Armageddon Rag is one of GRRM's stories that I have not read yet, so I can't really say anything about that. But A Song for Lya certainly has the hive mind at work, as does And Seven Times Never Kill Man. A Song for Lya is a bit creepy just because of the brain parasite that you wear like a cloak and then you eventually walk into the great mass of the hive. But it's hard not to draw connections to this story and that, just based on Lya/Lyanna. It would not shock me at all to find that Lyanna gave up her own life to join her conscious to a hive mind, the weirnet in this this story, and that her "ghost" still remains a part of the life of her family and of Winterfell. Probably all the places that the weirnet touches.
And like Lya touches out to Robb in dreams in A Song for Lya, does Lyanna touch out to the minds of people like Ned and Jon, and perhaps others she was close to, such as Benjen, although we never have any hints of Benjen's dreams.
I think Victarion is not religious like Aeron is, he was raised to believe in Drowned God but he doesn't seem to be a zealot, and Euron's inital power over Ironborn could be due to Dragonhorn, I wonder if horn really control humans rather than dragons, or not.
I actually didn't think Argoth is John at first, I think Argoth was Pearl Emperor/Grey King, whose wife was stolen by Jade Emperor/First Hightower - when it comes to Garth's children, I am sure beside Rose, Ellyn Eversweet and Bors the Breaker was skinchangers too, Ellyn had a pact with King of Bees, though I suspect we are lied to believe bees had a King when they should have a Queen, and Bors turned into a bull right.
I am thinking if it is possible Florys the Fox was the Woods Witch wife of Herndon and Harlon Tarly, and stole lover of Rowan Goldtree?
In A Song For Lya, Lya claims to love billions of people after joining the hive, could Lyanna herself love multiple men, like her father, brothers, Howland, Arthur, Walys Flowers, The Smiling Knight, an Other these are the theories I am familiar with when it comes to Jon's father, could Lyanna had mental connection with these men and love them at the same time?