That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. "Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.
Technicality I know, but notice Ned says "my blood" , not my son. Neds' lie to Cat is by omission of the truth.
Technicality I know, but notice Ned says "my blood" , not my son. Neds' lie to Cat is by omission of the truth.
Quite true. There might be other lies we aren't aware of, but I agree. I really like the idea of Ned+Ashara/Wylla/anyone=Jon, but I don't think it holds up and you've brought up one reason why.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Quite true. There might be other lies we aren't aware of, but I agree. I really like the idea of Ned+Ashara/Wylla/anyone=Jon, but I don't think it holds up and you've brought up one reason why.
Yes and no; I think ole George has pulled a fast one. I believe the key to this riddle is GRRMs insistence that time and distance are irrelevant to Roberts' Rebellion. To paraphrase "put away the rulers and stop watches". I asked once before elsewhere if anyone had considered the possibility of Jon and Robb both being Brandons' sons by Ashara and Cat respectively. But in chasing that theory I was struck just recently by a comparison. Robb is an extrovert like Brandon, but Jon is an introvert like Ned. But I think it would be more proper to put that out in things that make you go hmmm.
Quite true. There might be other lies we aren't aware of, but I agree. I really like the idea of Ned+Ashara/Wylla/anyone=Jon, but I don't think it holds up and you've brought up one reason why.
Don't lose hope just yet, Neds reaction and wording may have been caused by the total picture surrounding Ashara. The difficulty is ole George has spread the threads of this quadrangle across all five novels. I pointed the phraseology out because I'm going to use that artifice against Cat and in support of my ideas.
Is there really a "southern group think" ? The south is somewhat confusing to me, several houses and quite a number of individuals have their own agendas. There is even a marked contrast in house words that sets the Starks and Winterfell distinctly apart from almost,if not totally, all the rest of Westeros.
Catelyn found her husband beneath the weirwood, seated on a moss-covered stone. The greatsword Ice was across his lap, and he was cleaning the blade in those waters black as night. A thousand years of humus lay thick upon the godswood floor, swallowing the sound of her feet, but the red eyes of the weirwood seemed to follow her as she came. “Ned,” she called softly.
Reading how Robb denies Tyrion guest-rights, this scene made me think of Ned denying SH guest-rights. Combined with how SH doesn't like the north and the scene of "passionate lovemaking"
So when they had finished, Ned rolled off and climbed from her bed, as he had a thousand times before. He crossed the room, pulled back the heavy tapestries, and threw open the high narrow windows one by one, letting the night air into the chamber.
I'm sceptical of the "deep and loving" relationship between them, me thinks it's only skindeep and heavely tied to the children...
Had to read it several times before I saw this image!
GRRM is a tricksy bird.
It is easy to get carried away (at least, for me personally) by the beauty of the language he uses to describe the godswood. But if we take a step back from admiring the prose, and look at a snapshot of the scene, we find a very familiar image.
If we use a spy satellite capable of seeing through a thousand years of humus and dirt, we see an even clearer image.
Ned is mimicking the posture of the kings below him at this very moment.
And why would he have A great sword and not HIS sword?
Indeed.
Considering Cat goes on to tell us that the greatsword is not the original one that belonged to House Stark, I think this phrasing is meant to imply an absence of traditional, long term possession.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Considering Cat goes on to tell us that the greatsword is not the original one that belonged to House Stark, I think this phrasing is meant to imply an absence of traditional, long term possession.
Wich in turn describes Ned; not intended to be Lord, so did he view himself more as a place-holder?
Wich in turn describes Ned; not intended to be Lord, so did he view himself more as a place-holder?
I think so, but I'm probably in the minority on this. I view Ned as a dead man, living in a daze of duty, guilt, and regret, for 14 years, until Ilyn Payne finally put him out of his misery.
I like Ned... No, I love Ned. But the dude is so doomed and melancholy (not unlike Rhaegar) that his death was not without an element of Mercy. ("Mercy", after all, bore witness to his death.)
Winterfell will always be Brandon's. A Lord by any other name will be haunted by shadows.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
I think so, but I'm probably in the minority on this. I view Ned as a dead man, living in a daze of duty, guilt, and regret, for 14 years, until Ilyn Payne finally put him out of his misery.
I'm in that minority with you! He should've died at toj, but didn't. Then he was forsed to take up the bitter cup of Lordship, and did so valiantly. I can see him at the Quiet Isle, living in silence and repentance, if he had been free to do so.
I like Ned... No, I love Ned. But the dude is so doomed and melancholy (not unlike Rhaegar) that his death was not without an element of Mercy. ("Mercy", after all, bore witness to his death.)
Winterfell will always be Brandon's. A Lord by any other name will be haunted by shadows.
It was mercy, still a dream scenario for me would've been Tywin facing Ned when shtf (and winning of course, haha).
So ideally ever heir would be named Brandon. Reminds me of a Swedish aristocratic family who names every first born son Gabriel.