Post by shizett on Mar 9, 2016 21:57:48 GMT
I finally had some time to think on this. I think I am just super slow in thinking about new ideas and now I have somethings to add.
voice, you idea is super interesting. Thinking on it I came up with some questions:
- Do you think the fact that LSH seems to be so one dimensional is because she is a second generation wight, or because she was dead for a long time before she was brought back?
- But if she is a wight, where does her agency come from? Thoros was with Beric all the time after the incident. He might have helped him with agency, at least in the beginning.
- Why are we having Mel's POV? I had read somewhere that POV characters have hearts in conflict with themselves. If Mel is some sort of wight, does she have a conflicted heart? Where is the conflict? As you say, she seems "hellbent" on her goals.
- If this is the case, then what does it mean to be a fire-wight? She has no idea how to "understand" the visions. One would think that being a fire-wight would give her insight, why hasn't it?
First, I love it that you do not bite my head off for not "loving" Cat. It really helps me to understand her. I am so afraid of saying anything slightly negative on W about Cat or Sansa. It is just impossible to have a discussion.
Secod, I understand her predicament (at least a little). I just think that there is no way out of it for Ned as well. I agree that he was insensitive of him to treat her like that, but we are told repeatedly that he is NOT a good liar. He was masking his incompetency but ended up hurting her even more. If he had told her the truth, she would have felt betrayed that Ned was putting his dead-sister's need ahead of his own family. What would have changed? She just does not have any personal connection to Lyanna, why would she be kind to her son at the cost of her children's safety? Did I get your point or did I miss it completely?
I looked into the Night's queen thread since I thought that was what you meant, but I am not sure I understood anything. Would you mind elaborating?
Ooh, ooh, does this mean that Sansa is the Night's Queen then? I think this could make sense since Sansa's arc has been about marrying a King and changing him into a different (better) person.
That's true. I was thinking more in the line of her not needing to eat or sleep. She has super hero qualities
voice, you idea is super interesting. Thinking on it I came up with some questions:
Mel remembers being sold as a girl named Melony. It could be that she was transformed shortly after. We learn from Beric that it has grown harder for him to recall himself, and his humanity. Mel seems to have similar foggy recollection of herself and her humanity
- Do you think the fact that LSH seems to be so one dimensional is because she is a second generation wight, or because she was dead for a long time before she was brought back?
I like this! And it might fit with Martin's statement (I think) that Mel is misunderstood. If she was wighted like Beric. . . if she's "Firehands,: that would make her more "sympathetic"--at least to me.
- But if she is a wight, where does her agency come from? Thoros was with Beric all the time after the incident. He might have helped him with agency, at least in the beginning.
Mar 6, 2016 3:46:05 GMT voice said:
I don't want to conflate things too much, but they are practically the same woman at this point. Hellbent on their goals, and paving their way with slain innocents. - Why are we having Mel's POV? I had read somewhere that POV characters have hearts in conflict with themselves. If Mel is some sort of wight, does she have a conflicted heart? Where is the conflict? As you say, she seems "hellbent" on her goals.
It could also explain why she is able to gleam more insight from the flames than other red priests, like in a fire-understands-fire sort of way.
- If this is the case, then what does it mean to be a fire-wight? She has no idea how to "understand" the visions. One would think that being a fire-wight would give her insight, why hasn't it?
But Cat works up her courage to ask Ned about Ashara and gets her head bitten off by wolf man Ned. It's a sore point. And he should have noticed this when she asked that night. He seems to notice in that prayer, asking that his lady wife will find it in her heart to forgive. If he told her the truth, she might have a lot less to forgive
First, I love it that you do not bite my head off for not "loving" Cat. It really helps me to understand her. I am so afraid of saying anything slightly negative on W about Cat or Sansa. It is just impossible to have a discussion.
Secod, I understand her predicament (at least a little). I just think that there is no way out of it for Ned as well. I agree that he was insensitive of him to treat her like that, but we are told repeatedly that he is NOT a good liar. He was masking his incompetency but ended up hurting her even more. If he had told her the truth, she would have felt betrayed that Ned was putting his dead-sister's need ahead of his own family. What would have changed? She just does not have any personal connection to Lyanna, why would she be kind to her son at the cost of her children's safety? Did I get your point or did I miss it completely?
Though this might tie into discussions LmL and I have had re: Sansa as Night Queenly. I'm still strongly inclined to think she and Jon will eventually be together.
I looked into the Night's queen thread since I thought that was what you meant, but I am not sure I understood anything. Would you mind elaborating?
Sansa witnesses the downfall of the deceptive "queen" Lysa. Lysa's more drawn in by Baelish than the Queen drawing in the king. Lisa does the "chasing." But she's brought down. And Sansa's still standing.
Ooh, ooh, does this mean that Sansa is the Night's Queen then? I think this could make sense since Sansa's arc has been about marrying a King and changing him into a different (better) person.
She does show some--the shadow babies. And tries to show her readings of the flames--though we find out form her POV she's not as certain as she seems. I'm not sure what other abilities she might have. . .
That's true. I was thinking more in the line of her not needing to eat or sleep. She has super hero qualities