As a comic book fan and fan whore of Marvel in particular i stand in applause and say this is awesome.There's no emo, well emo enough for me to do.I'll come back after i had some food in my belly.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
First off, brilliant piece of work Pretty Pig - Beautiful Bacon! I ate breakfast before reading and was eating a hotdog for lunch near the end. Either I'm a slow reader or that was a very long, but entertaining post!
I'd like to check my understanding: Dormammu = R'hllor Mordo = Bloodraven Sorcerer Supreme = the position that Bran and Bloodraven will be fighting over Aged Genghis/Ancient One = Old Gods or actual 3EC Vishanti = Old Gods Eye of Agamotto = currently in possession of Bloodraven Clea = Val??? Orb or Amulet of Agamotto = one of these is in the possession of Euron Greyjoy aka Crow's Eye? Cadaver = Coldhands Dormammu is also the Many Faced God? Which actually makes sense if he's the other side of the coin. Hardhome was the location of the fire? Bloodraven was the true culprit of Summerhal?
Also, the Wall is holding back the Mindless Ones, which means that Shuma-Gorath the great kraken is a separate entity. Shuma-Gorath is contained, but wants to release the Mindless Ones to break free. The Mindless Ones (White Walkers and wights) are just tools.
No worries, this was a huge info dump. :::
Some corrections to your assumptions:
Dormammu = R'hllor
Mordo = Euron Greyjoy. Backstory is almost identical, and *I* think it provides some weight to the idea that Bloodraven and the 3EC are actually two separate entities, and we just haven't seen that yet in the story. (The 3EC being Euron, out to "corrupt" Bran.)
Sorcerer Supreme = The Last Greenseer. Bran and Euron will be vying for the position.
Ancient One = Bloodraven. This one is interesting, because the way the comic arc plays out, the Ancient One needs to be a King of Winter, i.e. a Stark. However, if you subscribe to the idea that this position is held by BRANDON Starks, or even Starks that possess the "gift" of greensight/warging/etc, then BR's holding of the title becomes problematic UNTIL you look back through the Stark family tree: there are only three Brandon Starks in the lineage between Cregan Stark's youngest son with Lynara Stark, and the Brandon Stark that was Ned's brother. One died at age three, and the other two were offshoots of younger sons and wives from vassal houses that have nothing noted for them as far as marriages or descendants - making me think that these two Brandons died early, or didn't have the right genetic mix, or something. (Or, who knows, maybe they DID go into the tree and just didn't cut it- one of those impaled greenseers that Bran sees in his vision.) I'm wondering perhaps if Bloodraven, who obviously possessed the abilities needed to do the job, has been serving as a "placeholder" all these years, waiting for the right Brandon Stark to be his successor. (That brings up the additional question of whether or not Bran's Uncle Brandon "The Wild Wolf" may have also been under Bloodraven's tutelage up to his untimely death.)
Aged Ghengis = IMO this is related to House Hightower and the Citadel. Lord Leyton, locked away in his tower with his books, may be serving the role of Aged Ghengis.
Vishanti = Old Gods
Eye/Orb/Amulet of Agamotto = more metaphorical for Bran's "third eye", really. I don't think there is an actual talisman to be had; it's referencing the innate abilities of the greenseer/warger/etc.
Clea = whew. I have to get to her. Not Val, however. (I think I've identified Val as another character named Topaz - I'll get to that.)
Cadaver = Coldhands
Fire of London = Hardhome
Not sure what you mean by the Summerhall thing? Would like to hear your thoughts on that....I haven't applied any of this to Summerhall yet, but I would love to see if I can find it.
Also, the Wall is holding back the Mindless Ones, which means that Shuma-Gorath the great kraken is a separate entity. Shuma-Gorath is contained, but wants to release the Mindless Ones to break free. The Mindless Ones (White Walkers and wights) are just tools.
Pretty much. If George is following the comic arc, then the Great Other is imprisoned somewhere beneath Winterfell. The Kings of Winter with their iron swords are denying guest right, as Weasel Pie has pointed out many times. The Stark family has the knowledge of the "spell" that can 1) release the Great Other or 2) lock him up again ("There must always be a Stark in Winterfell"). Jon, with his "dark road yet to walk" , may end up being the one that both releases the Great Other AND destroys it.
Another thing I wanted to wantonly speculate on: Hodor was Wild Wolf Brandon's warging test subject in his Bloodraven-led Last Greenseer training. The test did not go well. :::
BR was at the Wall prior to Dunk and Egg's Tragedy, but this has my wheels turning big time.
He was obviously respected/admired by Egg, as he personally escorted him to the Wall. (And, I would guess, it wasn't due to curiousity...I think Dunk and Egg would have already have visited WF by this time, and stopped by the Wall before or after for shits and giggles.)
Might BR have become a mentor of sorts for Egg? I could see an interesting dynamic emerging as Dunk provided a constant, down-to-earth influence on Egg, while at the same time, Brynden Rivers provided a constant magical influence on Egg in his formative years as King.
I think you may be on to something here Melifeather.
Also, the Wall is holding back the Mindless Ones, which means that Shuma-Gorath the great kraken is a separate entity. Shuma-Gorath is contained, but wants to release the Mindless Ones to break free. The Mindless Ones (White Walkers and wights) are just tools.
I would argue ww's are more than mindless tools, but agree they are being led by another. This is where I throw in references to the Night's King. LOL
But to prevent that debate, I will agree with you that whatever is leading them is contained, and seeks release. I would argue that the containment has been provided by light itself. Now that the ice winds are a-howling, we should have some extra long nights in which this unseen menace can stretch its (8) legs.
Didn't GRRM say that we wouldn't see any big reveals of the gods?
Not the same thing, imo. We won't see any Gods on page, but there are many examples already, imo, that qualify as deus ex machina. Beric's resurrection is one. Dany being Unburnt is another.
Martin does it discreetly, and deftly, but it is still fantasy.
Sorcerer Supreme = The Last Greenseer. Bran and Euron will be vying for the position.
I don't see how Euron is a contender... I mean, of course he is in the Game, and more interested in magic than LF or Doran, but I'm not seeing how he is a contender in the northern events...
Eye/Orb/Amulet of Agamotto = more metaphorical for Bran's "third eye", really. I don't think there is an actual talisman to be had; it's referencing the innate abilities of the greenseer/warger/etc.
BR was at the Wall prior to Dunk and Egg's Tragedy, but this has my wheels turning big time.
He was obviously respected/admired by Egg, as he personally escorted him to the Wall. (And, I would guess, it wasn't due to curiousity...I think Dunk and Egg would have already have visited WF by this time, and stopped by the Wall before or after for shits and giggles.)
Might BR have become a mentor of sorts for Egg? I could see an interesting dynamic emerging as Dunk provided a constant, down-to-earth influence on Egg, while at the same time, Brynden Rivers provided a constant magical influence on Egg in his formative years as King.
When did Egg escort BR to the wall? I thought that BR was part of the escort for Maester Aemon to the wall. He was released from the black cells along with a bunch of others as a sort of honor guard for Aemon when Egg became king. Or am I remembering incorrectly?
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
BR was at the Wall prior to Dunk and Egg's Tragedy, but this has my wheels turning big time.
He was obviously respected/admired by Egg, as he personally escorted him to the Wall. (And, I would guess, it wasn't due to curiousity...I think Dunk and Egg would have already have visited WF by this time, and stopped by the Wall before or after for shits and giggles.)
Might BR have become a mentor of sorts for Egg? I could see an interesting dynamic emerging as Dunk provided a constant, down-to-earth influence on Egg, while at the same time, Brynden Rivers provided a constant magical influence on Egg in his formative years as King.
When did Egg escort BR to the wall? I thought that BR was part of the escort for Maester Aemon to the wall. He was released from the black cells along with a bunch of others as a sort of honor guard for Aemon when Egg became king. Or am I remembering incorrectly?
Hmm now I'm not sure. Will have to fact check...
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
When did Egg escort BR to the wall? I thought that BR was part of the escort for Maester Aemon to the wall. He was released from the black cells along with a bunch of others as a sort of honor guard for Aemon when Egg became king. Or am I remembering incorrectly?
Hmm now I'm not sure. Will have to fact check...
From the WB.
THE FIRST ACT of Aegon’s reign was the arrest of Brynden Rivers, the King’s Hand, for the murder of Aenys Blackfyre. Bloodraven did not deny that he had lured the pretender into his power by the offer of a safe conduct , but contended that he had sacrificed his own personal honor for the good of the realm. Though many agreed, and were pleased to see another Blackfyre pretender removed, King Aegon felt he had no choice but to condemn the Hand, lest the word of the Iron Throne be seen as worthless . Yet after the sentence of death was pronounced, Aegon offered Bloodraven the chance to take the black and join the Night’s Watch. This he did. Ser Brynden Rivers set sail for the Wall late in the year of 233 AC. (No one intercepted his ship). Two hundred men went with him, many of them archers from Bloodraven’s personal guard, the Raven’s Teeth. The king’s brother, Maester Aemon, was also amongst them.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
THE FIRST ACT of Aegon’s reign was the arrest of Brynden Rivers, the King’s Hand, for the murder of Aenys Blackfyre. Bloodraven did not deny that he had lured the pretender into his power by the offer of a safe conduct , but contended that he had sacrificed his own personal honor for the good of the realm. Though many agreed, and were pleased to see another Blackfyre pretender removed, King Aegon felt he had no choice but to condemn the Hand, lest the word of the Iron Throne be seen as worthless . Yet after the sentence of death was pronounced, Aegon offered Bloodraven the chance to take the black and join the Night’s Watch. This he did. Ser Brynden Rivers set sail for the Wall late in the year of 233 AC. (No one intercepted his ship). Two hundred men went with him, many of them archers from Bloodraven’s personal guard, the Raven’s Teeth. The king’s brother, Maester Aemon, was also amongst them.
Oh ok... Not sure where I got that impression then. Did Dunk and Egg accompany Aemon?
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Oh ok... Not sure where I got that impression then. Did Dunk and Egg accompany Aemon?
I'm guessing not since Egg was King by then. Aemon talks about it in AFFC? as well but I don't recall anything like that. It is a nice sentiment, BR was active up until that point and it does sound as if Egg did have some respect for him. Nothing to preclude a previous relationship between the two. :::
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking... that Egg escorted both Aemon and BR to the Wall as king. Must've been a green dream.
Not completely. I found the quote from AFFC. Egg didn't go, but Dunc did.
The old man heard him. Though Aemon’s eyes had dimmed and gone dark, there was nothing wrong with his ears. “I was not born blind,” he reminded them. “When last I passed this way, I saw every rock and tree and whitecap, and watched the grey gulls flying in our wake. I was five-and-thirty and had been a maester of the chain for sixteen years. Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters. Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen lord commander.”
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking... that Egg escorted both Aemon and BR to the Wall as king. Must've been a green dream.
Not completely. I found the quote from AFFC. Egg didn't go, but Dunc did.
The old man heard him. Though Aemon’s eyes had dimmed and gone dark, there was nothing wrong with his ears. “I was not born blind,” he reminded them. “When last I passed this way, I saw every rock and tree and whitecap, and watched the grey gulls flying in our wake. I was five-and-thirty and had been a maester of the chain for sixteen years. Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters. Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen lord commander.”
Oh ok cool! But that certainly puts a different spin on it if it was only Dunk, and not the both of them... He may have ridden along to make sure BR didn't take any detours.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Yes, I saw the quote. Not sure if it was an honorary thing, or making sure he went there.
I think this supports your originally idea, somewhat, of BR being Mordo. It certainly is interesting to imagine the nature of the trio's relations and conversations. They all seem so very different. Ser Duncan the Tall, thick as a castle wall, and commander of the KG. Bookish, un-intrigued by politics, Aemon. And then, steeped in whispers, red of eye and white of hair, a recently condemned Brynden Rivers among them.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
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