What I'm trying to say is that I believe Arya knows her sister is telling the truth, and she probably remembers what actually happened but she has a plan for LF. And this, all of it, is part to outplay LF.
See, I actually think they're falling for LF's BS & Bran is gonna swoop in and set them straight. I hope to hell you're right but I've lost all faith in D&D to build a competent plot line.
Post by DarkSister1001 on Aug 23, 2017 22:49:27 GMT
The director admitted 2 big issues with thus episode. 1) The timing of Jon et al and Dany. Easy fix. Send a raven when they arrive at Eastwatch saying if she doesn't hear from them in so many days to come looking for them. 2) The NK not going for the easy kill of Drogon bc Drogon was already hit once thus season. Another easy fix. Have him aim for Drogon but Vis intercepts accidentally as he swoops down in between unknowingly sacrificing itself.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
What I'm trying to say is that I believe Arya knows her sister is telling the truth, and she probably remembers what actually happened but she has a plan for LF. And this, all of it, is part to outplay LF.
See, I actually think they're falling for LF's BS & Bran is gonna swoop in and set them straight. I hope to hell you're right but I've lost all faith in D&D to build a competent plot line.
I wish they WOULD fall! Petyr has been off his game for so long, I miss old chaos-y Petyr, the villain who outplays everyone! :tiptoe
That being said, I really think there's just a too weird vibe in Winterfell. And a confluence of oddities like Sansa sending Bri away with a bullshit excuse, Arya forgetting how Sansa went hysterical on the podium when Joff had Ned executed and handing over the Valyrian dagger to Sansa when she was hesitant to take it herself from Bran because it was a priceless gift. I gotta see the ep again. I forgot if Sansa took that dagger.
Anyway, those oddities can be explained away, sure, but the fact there's like 3 of them is just giving me hope the Stark girls are not that silly. Plus Arya has to be super cagey after the Waif thing in Braavos. No matter how smart Petyr is, he's not the Waif when it comes to creeping out of corners. She's bound to feel herself watched.
“Don’t fight in the North, or the South. Fight every battle everywhere. Always, in your mind.”
I think absence has made the heart grow fonder for GRRM. The Walkers are indeed evil. Their creation is ambiguous and gray, but the Walkers themselves are, we are told, bent on the destruction of all life. Maybe that will change, and we'll learn they just want love, and maybe a Tim Horton's franchise. But until then, I think show world tracks with book world. They were created to kill, and they kill.
I think a better description for the Others would be "implacable" rather than evil.
Or, at least, if the are "evil", they are not without humor.
If a species' tendency to kill means that they were "created to kill", then this means that humanity was also "created to kill".
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say the Others are good guys, but I do think their motives and interactions will prove to be more than the mindless bad guys we see in GoT.
In terms of their origin/creation, that remains to be seen. We have nothing describing any such events in the books, and the show presented a ridiculous scenario.
I was trying to search voice's old threads re: Bran=NK. I don't think he came up with it, it might've been on Heresy in Westeros, but his old signature I think supported it from Old Nan's stories: "mayhaps his name was Brandon".
so Old Nan may have started the theory back in '96.
I'm not a fan of the idea that our Sweet Summer Bran is the Night's King, but yes @treyman16, I am a huge fan of the idea that Bran the Builder is the Night's King. That theory is here: How Ice Became Dawn But this one from armstark might be more up your alley: The Night's King and his tower.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
I only just realised but it's happened twice. When Meera kills the walker in the cave, no wights drop either. Smh...
It's worse than I thought. I just rewatched the scene and yup, Meera drops a WW and no wights seem to go down. The worse comes from the fact that it really does look like Meera kills at least two wights with a normal sword. I might be wrong, maybe she just knocks them down, rewatch for yourselves but it looks pretty bad to me.
Last Edit: Aug 23, 2017 23:46:34 GMT by pieceofgosa
Things you shouldn't do late at night #163: Start thinking & attempting to analyse Arya's Braavos plot. It. Makes. No. Sense. I think... I think it's the worst written bit of the show. The only way it may end up making sense is if the FM specifically needed Arya Stark for something. Fair's fair, if D&D end up paying off the Braavos plot in some way then it may actually end up being the best written part of the show.
You don’t look like your blonde-haired tall father. You look like your mother, who by the way bears a pretty striking resemblance to the woman you are going to full-on pork next week.
Speaking of drivel, let's rewind to Gilly in episode 5.
The "Prince Ragger" that received an annulment
I'm still so confused by this. I really do try to remain open to all sorts of scenarios, so if George goes with annulment, he goes with annulment. If he does this, I just hope the reason will make sense. As it stands right now, this scenario seems a little too convenient, and the lack of details to sort out make it a bit of a hot mess. The thing that makes it worse is that if it was to remain secret, this tidbit ending up in in a High Septon’s journal in the citadel doesn’t really help in keeping the secret. Wouldn’t somebody studying the faith at the citadel eventually come across this tidbit?
In a way, and I don’t mean for this to sound facetious, because again, I am open to all kinds of scenarios, but it is almost comical. If one of the main tenets of RLJ (ie -Ned protecting Jon from Robert because he is Rhaegar’s) is supposed to hold true then Ned went through all that trouble to lie to pretty much everybody…just in case.
Marriages in asoiaf cannot be annulled once they are consummated.
In addition to a marriage not being consummated, the only other reason that I can recall from book-world is if you are forced to say your vows at swordpoint. However, I don't know if this is an actual rule or just something that I am misremembering. In any case, I doubt Elia had a sword at her neck in the Great Sept of Baelor.
Hi everybody! I've been away from the forum for quite a while - pressures of life and all that - now I hope to have a bit more time for theorizing and am glad to see you all still here and going strong
This episode made me feel incredibly sad and I went off to bed feeling disgruntled trying to make sense of it all. Next day I watched it again and suddenly things seemed to come together. At the end I felt the episode can only be understood in terms of the back story. First thing that hit me:
All our beloved heroes who go beyond the Wall are very likely Azor Ahai archetypes. This is most evident with Thoros, Beric and Jon and perhaps less obvious regarding Sandor, Gendry, Jorah and Tormund. Tormund however gives us the hint after Sandor comments on his red hair and Tormund points out that Sandor too has been kissed by fire. Azor Ahai is kissed by fire - the champion of fire with his fiery light-bringing sword. Gendry's connection to Azor Ahai then must be his hammer - think Norse mythology here - Thor's hammer from which lightning was said to issue forth, another lightbringer. But Gendry gets sent back to Eastwatch to make sure a raven is sent to Daenerys who is our current and 7th Azor Ahai. His mission is highly important and must not fail. This contrasts with Sam in the Show, who failed to send the ravens off during the wight attack at the Fist of the First Men. Now, recall that Sam Tarly is of HORNHILL and think of Gendry, Robert's son, Robert being a classic HORNED LORD in the mythological sense. Sam failed but his counterpart Gendry has now redeemed himself (think too of Gendry's whining over the Red Priestess wanting to kill him and Sandor's reaction to that). This failure of the "Horned Lord" to fulfill his part in the mission to bring down the Others is probably the hidden reason why the Tarlys get roasted by Daenerys. Jorah is more difficult but it is clear that he changes his allegiance from ice to fire (Starks to Targaryens). Thus we have the symbolic great ice bear that gets killed by the fire heroes in place of Jorah. The seven incarnations of Azor Ahai are also symbolized by Beric's 6 deaths and resurrection and 7th death in the books.
So, to Daenerys as the ultimate Azor Ahai this time round (the wheel and all that jazz) and why the battle really is mainly between her and the Night King: this can be understood in terms of the asynchronous seasons because bottom line, this is what a song of ice and fire is all about. What we all tend to forget (even though we know dragons don't plant seeds) is that there is a land of always summer as well as a land of always winter. Fire and Ice. Both are equally dangerous to the entire plant's survival. Always summer and always winter are the ultimate manifestation of totally imbalanced seasons, planet-wide. Not only in the north of Westeros. Essos is known to have had great lakes, the Silver Sea and beyond the Bones there were similar water bodies and plenty of green, all dried out, all gone. Now we have grasslands where once water helped to keep the land fertile and worse still, deserts as far as the eye can see. Whatever lies beyond - the Grey Waste - must be a wasteland. The World Book talks about a period in the East known as the Dry Times. In aGoT, there is mention of a Great Summer, thought to have finally arrived during King Maekar's time. What is this great summer? A time when daylight rules and night no longer exists? A time when the sun shines relentlessly on the earth? A time when the seas go dry and mountains blow like leaves in the wind (they crumble to dust)? Even more provocative, has this long summer happened before? Is this why the FM migrated to Westeros, to a new Garden of Eden? And did the BSE try to balance the seasons by attempting to cool the planet but ushered in another extreme instead? Magic - a sword without a hilt?
Daenerys and her dragons are champions of the land of always summer as the NK is the champion of the land of always winter. If there is to be balance, the only logical conclusion is they wipe each other out in the end. If we view the 6 heroes as previous incarnations of Azor Ahai, then Jon Snow, represents the 6th incarnation and he did not succeed in fully restoring the world. This is why he is subordinate to Dany and must bend the knee (I really did hate the idea of him bending the knee) and why all the other "incarnations" will have to combine to aid her. But how about the NK? Who are his earthly helpers? Cersei with her undead white knight seems an obvious choice. Euron, who claims he is the first storm and the last, the other.
Some speculation: Now that the NK has taken over one of the dragons, I expect one of those on Dany/Jon's side to be able to seize control of wights at some point. Perhaps Bran. Perhaps Theon - there must be something more to his turncloak image, all that suffering at the hands of Ramsay Bolton and most of all - what is dead may never die. Perhaps Arya. She can change faces, in the show even take on the persona of a victim. Maybe the idea that she will one day control Nymeria and her pack of dogs/wolves will turn out to be quite different - that she will take on the persona of the NK and seize control of the wights instead - those undead do rather behave like a pack of wild hungry dogs, hmm. And that brings me to my last observation - that of trading places.
I found Arya's menacing attitude towards Sansa disturbing, to say the least. But then I noticed she did not really explain her "training" to Sansa in terms of the cutthroat assassin she really is. She talks of both herself and Sansa wanting to be someone else - she a knight and Sansa a queen. She says girls were never allowed to follow their inclinations but that she now can. With the faces, she can choose to become someone else. She tells Sansa she could even become her and asks herself what it would be like to wear those pretty dresses and to be Lady of Winterfell. Trading places. Arya then gives Sansa the Valyrian Steel dagger - hmm, symbolizing trading places yet again and I strongly feel that this scene plays into the last scene between Dany and Jon, when she finally gets confirmation that he was indeed stabbed in the heart. Implying Jon is now Nissa Nissa and Dany is Azor Ahai. Trading places.
Quirky Seasons: Under the sea, men marry fishes More on bluewinterroses.com
It's worse than I thought. I just rewatched the scene and yup, Meera drops a WW and no wights seem to go down. The worse comes from the fact that it really does look like Meera kills at least two wights with a normal sword. I might be wrong, maybe she just knocks them down, rewatch for yourselves but it looks pretty bad to me.
let me join you in a wee bit of nit-picking:
did Meera kill a ww? did she have an obsidian dagger or a valeryan steel sword?
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
It sort of feels like he's a robot now. Show-Meera said he died in the cave with Show-Bloodraven, and he didn't disagree. While he isn't a wight, he's become about as interesting as one.
so it seems like complete inaction? his brother and his 10-13 companions have gone on a stupid quest (bring back a wight to Cersei, right? - as if she'd care...) and he has not said boo?
a robot? who is pulling the strings? would it be that he is under the control of the NK?
let's assume that at least he sent Ben 'coldhands' Jen to the rescue. Even if that is a script coincidence.
Arya should just put him our of his misery, that would give both of them something to do.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
It sort of feels like he's a robot now. Show-Meera said he died in the cave with Show-Bloodraven, and he didn't disagree. While he isn't a wight, he's become about as interesting as one.
so it seems like complete inaction? his brother and his 10-13 companions have gone on a stupid quest (bring back a wight to Cersei, right? - as if she'd care...) and he has not said boo?
a robot? who is pulling the strings? would it be that he is under the control of the NK?
let's assume that at least he sent Ben 'coldhands' Jen to the rescue. Even if that is a script coincidence.
Arya should just put him our of his misery, that would give both of them something to do.
Bran says at some point that he needs to learn to see better, so I think he learning to process all the information that the 3 eyed raven downloaded into his head before he died, and how to use his third sight.
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