Post by shymaid on Apr 25, 2018 21:14:17 GMT
Recently in discussion (I cannot for the life of me remember what thread) there was discussion about the imagery in the toj fever dream, and both the idea that from Ned's perspective, Dawn was "alive with light" as well as what he dreams as Lyanna's voice screaming might have actually been a sound that the sword Dawn was making. Some of this speculation came from the sound the Other's sword made during the sword battle with Ser Waymar Royce, and it is possible that Dawn is not like the Other's swords at all. But it could be ...
Jaime remember's Dawn as a white blade and very sharp, but he never seems to report that the blade was anything like "alive with light" or making noise, which makes me think that something special happened with Dawn at the toj. In Ned's dreams it is the blade that is alive with light, not the hilt, which is mentioned earlier in the dream. The speculation in part of that discussion was that perhaps the sword might have recognized Eddard, which is one of the reasons that SAD might have had a "sad smile" upon his lips. Perhaps Arthur realized that the sword was picking a new man to wield it, and that by returning Dawn to Starfall, then Ned rejected the sword.
It was in one of the very realy threads IIRC.
a) feverdream
b) milk of the poppy
c) latent ability in Stark blood
All these could explain the "alive with light" part. Perhaps he only saw a white sword gleaming in sunlight, which transmuted into "alive with light" in his dream(s). Perhaps it was a small abiity he had due to his blood (cue: Lyanna and Brandon as centaurs), that gave him the ability to see it, and not via bloodtie to Dawn.
The screaming could point to a connection to the Other's swords, there seems to be similarities, but I'm not sure.
Now, I don't personally believe that Dawn is at Starfall, despite what the book tells us and the SSM from Martin, but I admit to being ridiculously stubborn about this issue. Perhaps because from early in my first read of Game, I decided that Dawn was in the crypts, and that it was what was calling to Jon, and perhaps giving Ned such restless sleep for years. So, I am not sure that I buy this concept that Ned brought on the beginnings of the Long Night 2.0 by rejecting the blade, but I suppose it could still be considered rejected even if it was buried in the crypts.
Well, if you've decided then...
Personally I don't think there's anything else than stones, bones and ghosts in the crypts. If something ends up being in Lyanna's statue or something like that, I'll probably throw up...
Perhaps I am being overly sensitive toward Ned here, but I don't think a person such as he would "not have what it takes" to wield Dawn. In general no one seems to doubt the honor of Eddard Stark, several people even mock Ned for his honor. And he must have enough skill to get the job done with a sword since he didn't manage to get himself killed during two wars. I am not saying he was as good as Arthur or Barristan, but I doubt he is a poor swordsman, either. Especially if Dawn was a Stark sword long, long before it ever belonged to the Dawn family. If the Dayne's actually gained the sword from a "fallen star(k)", then I see no reason that the sword might not chose another of Stark blood to carry it.
I'm very far from convinced that the original Ice was Dawn, even if Dawn is an Other's sword (which I'm not convinced of either). Basically I'm very far from convinced it chose Ned as a new owner.
The ability to wield a sword in itself might not be here nor there to be able to wield Dawn. If it was, history would probably be littered with SotMs. Of course, Martin is keeping things from us, but I don't think he'd lie. Which this would mean.
Of course, this idea is based on the sword choosing who will wield it, and that is all speculation. We have no idea about how the Sword of the Morning is chosen. Perhaps every 20 years or so, all the men of Dayne blood get together and draw straw's to see who is the next SotM? It might be just as simple as beating the current SotM in armed combat, which is what it seems like the Smiling Knight was trying to do. So, if this is what happened at the toj, Ned beating Arthur with Howland Reed somehow playing a part, then perhaps Ned did reject the sword because of some assistance rendered from the crannogman. And perhaps this did set the whole LN2.0 into motion. Not saying it's not possible, just not my personal favorite theory.
While possible, I doubt it. Again, that would implie that SotMs would pop up every generation and could be down to age alone if the current SotM was old. Again it would implie that Martin has lied. It might not be related to anything magical, but there doesn't seem to have been an every generation thing.
That the Smiling Knight wanted the sword isn't suprising, as it's fairly usual when defeating enemies.
If Ned did return the sword, just as we are told, what do you think he thought might happen if he didn't return the sword? What is the worse scenario that Ned could have foreseen? After all, we know that Ned isn't a person who seems to put faith in signs, and even though I like to doubt much of Catelyn's inner monologue, it truly seems like Ned didn't recognize that the direwolf pups were a gift from the gods until he heard that Bran's wolf had saved him. Only then did he seem to regret killing Lady. So, it could not have been superstition that would cause Ned to think something bad might happen if he didn't return Dawn. So what would have been Ned's motivation if not honor or not a bargaining chip? Asking because it is something I have thought about, but really can't come up with something to convince myself.
What he thought might happen? I don't know. He'd probably handled Ice sometimes before (if his letting Jon handle it is anything to go by), perhaps he felt something like we hear about other Valyrian steele swords: that the sword activly participates in the fighting. If he felt something similar, that he didn't like/thought he could handle perhaps, he decided to return it. Or it could've been for some mundane reason, or just that Ned was Ned. It could be tied to him thinking there was no honor to the conquest, and so not tied to his own honor per se.
I need some very close rereads to really start formulating something other than just vague I think...