Post by stdaga on May 7, 2018 17:41:22 GMT
May 7, 2018 14:08:41 GMT danl said:
(On a completely off-topic note, I wonder if role-playing explains Dany's odd mix of memories. She may be consciously telling herself some lies to maintain the illusion. I've never done a careful Dany read, so this is pure speculation.)I have often wondered about Dany's memories being actual dreams of the future, but I have never thought of them as a false reality based on a lie she tells herself. Dany is not a character that I have focused on in great detail, but if this same thought can apply to Jaime or Sansa, in can certainly apply to Dany. I have also wondered about Tyrion! He tell's Jon to face hard truth's, but I wonder if he listens to his own truth's or if there is some fallacy that he might be living or misremembering?
May 7, 2018 14:08:41 GMT danl said:
Maybe it doesn't become 'truth' but it does become part of our identity. Who is the true Jaime? The dutiful son of Tywin? The friend of Rhaegar? The great swordman? The cynical lost soul? The kingsguard stuggling to find honor?If Jaime did not kill the king, then it does not become true that he did. But if the lie 'Kingslayer' is repeated enough times, maybe Jaime becomes the kingslayer in identity if not in objective fact.
I suppose Jaime is all of those things, and perhaps more. He is a complicated character. As to whether he killed Aerys or not, he probably did the deed and it is only wild speculation on my part that wonders if Aerys death could echo Renly's death (by shadow magic). Still, the possibility exists that Jaime is no kingslayer at all. Whether Jaime is an actual kingslayer or not, he has embraced the role, even if he loath's the nickname.
May 7, 2018 14:08:41 GMT danl said:
This is an interesting list. Jaime has allowed other people to define his reality. He is living within the lies of other people. In some cases, the lie serves his purpose. In all cases, it is easier to accept the lie than to resist it.I feel like I could be missing a lie or two that Jaime has let stand, and I do question the events that brought down the Kingswood Brotherhood, but we have no reason to suspect that is a lie at this point in the story. Still, even considering these three things, it does make a person wonder how passive Jaime has been in allowing a false story to stand as truth.
I see some interesting parallel's between Jaime and Ned, although we are set up to see them as very different (they ARE different in many ways, but I think they do have some things in common). So, if Jaime has lived lies that are easier to allow than to clarify, then could this apply to Ned? Perhaps in the truth of Jon's parentage, or perhaps in something different? Ned has some complicated feelings for the Lannister's, so has he allowed a lie about the Lannister's to be seen as the truth? Could it related to the death of Rhaegar's children, and Ned being more culpable than we suspect? I also wonder about manipulation by a sister. We see it very plainly in Jaime's arc with Cersei, and so I wonder about this possibility with Ned and Lyanna. However, it's possible this sibling relationship between the Lannister's and Stark's is meant to be an inversion and not a parallel. But again, the line "By what right does the wolf judge the lion? By what right?" often comes in to play when I try to compare Ned and Jaime, and I do wonder how this will play out.
Jaime is the accepted sole killer of Aerys, yet we as reader's suspect that Ned did not kill Arthur Dayne without help, or even kill him at all. If Ned didn't kill SAD but has been given credit for the death, then it again makes me question if Jaime actually did kill Aerys. Of course, Ned very well might have killed SAD, but the truth of it being an act of single combat that is the fallacy. Ned and Jaime are initially observed as being opposites in the story, in acts, deeds, and honor, but I wonder of they are more alike in ways than we are lead to believe. Of course, I love Ned as a character, but would not be surprised if there is a darkness or major failing that we have not been let in on. That is one of the reasons the idea of Starkcest with Ned and Lyanna seems to fit, considering what we know of Jaime and Cersei. But I might be guilty of looking for parallel's were inversions actually lie!