Principally it comes from the booming voice. There's a lot to link Lyanna with the KotLT, too much to comfortably ignore. Most pro-Lyanna folks brush off the booming voice though, arguing it's just the result of someone disguising their voice in a helmet. Some even use the example of Brienne's voice being muffled as proof. I think that's garbage.
There are two people mentioned as having voices boom through their helms: TKotLT and The Mountain. Booming voices in general are a bit more widespread, but apart from a couple of vague examples (some tyroshi sailors and a herald) it seems to be very much a characteristic of unusually large men in GRRMs writing. Donal Noye, Robert Baratheon, Greatjon, the Mountain (twice I think), Wendel Manderly, Erik Ironmaker, Bronze Yohn Royce, Godry the Giantslayer, Strongboar, Lyonel Baratheon, a 14 year old girl. One of these is not like the others.
That doesn't exclude Lyanna though, because these are all BIG men, and we know for sure the that KotLT was not. I think the likely conclusion is that that was not the KotLTs voice at all.
We don't know much about Howland, but Meera says he "could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear." Maybe "weave words" means he's able to throw voices?
Principally it comes from the booming voice. There's a lot to link Lyanna with the KotLT, too much to comfortably ignore. Most pro-Lyanna folks brush off the booming voice though, arguing it's just the result of someone disguising their voice in a helmet. Some even use the example of Brienne's voice being muffled as proof. I think that's garbage.
There are two people mentioned as having voices boom through their helms: TKotLT and The Mountain. Booming voices in general are a bit more widespread, but apart from a couple of vague examples (some tyroshi sailors and a herald) it seems to be very much a characteristic of unusually large men in GRRMs writing. Donal Noye, Robert Baratheon, Greatjon, the Mountain (twice I think), Wendel Manderly, Erik Ironmaker, Bronze Yohn Royce, Godry the Giantslayer, Strongboar, Lyonel Baratheon, a 14 year old girl. One of these is not like the others.
That doesn't exclude Lyanna though, because these are all BIG men, and we know for sure the that KotLT was not. I think the likely conclusion is that that was not the KotLTs voice at all.
We don't know much about Howland, but Meera says he "could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear." Maybe "weave words" means he's able to throw voices?
I'm glad this thread got made again as I want to plug my theory that Rhaegar was the KOTLT again
And the mystery knight should win the tourney, defeating every challenger, and name the wolf maid the queen of love and beauty
This is exactly what Rhaegar did... and George puts it right in front of our faces by having Bran say this after he hears the tale. Rhaegar DID defeat every challenger, and he DID name Lyanna the queen of love and beauty. So let's examine Rhaegar as the knight then.
If Rhaegar was the knight, then:
- Rhaegar couldn't find the knight because he was the knight - Rhaegar was a trained and very talented jouster so he could very likely have defeated the 3 champions (but otherwise unknown) jousters - Rhaegar's voice was described by Jaime as "iron tones". He likely had a deep voice then, and as a singer, knew how to throw his voice very well thus the booming voice of the knight - Rhaegar wore the symbols of the old gods and the north to detract from the fact that he was a Targaryen, and to directly contrast the elaborate pro Targaryen armour that he'd wear when he'd joust as himself. The KOTLT's armour is so obviously not Targaryen imagery, and when one sees how Rhaegar dresses in his own jousts, it so obviously makes it impossible that they're the same person. Rhaegar later wore such distinct armour to draw attention to the fact that THIS is Rhaegar jousting, and NOT the prior mystery knight. If you research tourney armour and battle armour, there is a big difference in that jousting armour is heavier and thicker, yet Rhaegar wore the exact same armour at Harrenhal that he did at the Trident. Which doesn't make much sense, as that essentially means that he wore either inadequate armour to joust in at Harrenhal, or he wore inadequate armour to fight in at the Trident. Either way, it doesn't add up that he wore the same armour for both, when they require different types of armour. Especially in light of the fact that we know that he wore different armour when he jousted at Lannisport, so Rhaegar does have at least two sets of armour, yet choose to wear this ruby dragon one. He choose this armour for a reason, and if he was the KOTLT, then this would explain this as it draws attention to the fact that the jouster is Rhaegar Targaryen. He's slamming it in the viewer's face that he's only jousting now, and that detracts that he and the KOTLT might joust similarly or exactly the same. He's making people see what they want to see. - Rhaegar dressed as a mystery knight after Aerys decided to come to Harrenhal. We know that apparently Rhaegar was planning on talking to all the Great Lords at Harrenhal and seemingly ousting his father, but after Aerys decided to come, Rhaegar obviously couldn't do that. So he decided to be a mystery knight, and win favour with lords that way through his victories. But then Aerys decided that the knight was an enemy of the state, so the knight needed to disappear. Hence why the knight disappears, after Rhaegar conveniently can't find him, and Rhaegar suddenly takes the field the next day after Aerys has proven in front of everybody that he's mad by calling this mystery knight an enemy. Rhaegar suddenly puts himself forward as a worthy successor by taking the field and besting everybody. It slams it in the lords faces that he's better than Aerys as here he is proving how great he is. - There's either two options for why Rhaegar fought those specific three knights. One, Rhaegar fought for Howland to show that he's fighting for the people unlike his father who was very much the "old school" royalty who was invested in the Targaryen supremacy idea (this presumes though that Rhaegar knows about Howland's scuffle, but if Lyanna saw it, I don't see why others wouldn't have as well or that the tale wouldn't have spread). Or two, Rhaegar didn't fight for Howland at all, he just defeated the 3 easiest knights which would advance him the furthest in the tourney. The three knights that the KOTLT defeated were 3 of the 5 champions, so upon defeating all 3 knights, the KOTLT was leading the tourney. Seeing as they apparently weren't particularly noteworthy knights (as we know nothing about them other than this tourney), defeating all three would be the quickest way for Rhaegar to advance quickly. See above for why Rhaegar then had to forfeit his position as the secret leader of the tourney, but the fact that whoever defeated the 3 knights was suddenly leading the tournament, is awfully convenient if they were just interested in righting the slight to Howland's honour.
Only con seems to be the height issue, but our only reference to Rhaegar's height is the fact that he was taller than Viserys according to Dany's vision... which doesn't actually mean that he was that tall as a) it's a vision, and it's a vision among visions containing known errors/discrepancies so this might be one too, and b) the only reference to Viserys' height is that Khal Drogo was at least a head taller than him, as Drogo was a head taller than the tallest man (who wasn't Viserys) at the party where Dany was presented to him. So we don't actually know if Rhaegar was tall, so Rhaegar does actually seem like a really good candidate. The story then is simply Howland telling his children about how the "gods" avenged him, and the kids don't know who the knight was as Howland never knew either.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
If you research tourney armour and battle armour, there is a big difference in that jousting armour is heavier and thicker, yet Rhaegar wore the exact same armour at Harrenhal that he did at the Trident. Which doesn't make much sense, as that essentially means that he wore either inadequate armour to joust in at Harrenhal, or he wore inadequate armour to fight in at the Trident.
Hmmm, that's interesting. However, I don't see how him being the mystery knight or not makes any difference here. The ill-fitting armour would be a sufficient disguise in any case, and for the rest he'd still want to draw attention that he's Rhaegar in any case. If the armour was inadequate, I don't see him using it just because he was also KotLT, unless he was prepared to use it anyway.
Especially in light of the fact that we know that he wore different armour when he jousted at Lannisport, so Rhaegar does have at least two sets of armour, yet choose to wear this ruby dragon one.
Note that he was 17 and freshly knighted at the time - his physique might still have changed after that. Or his taste. Mind you, I'd expect the crown prince to have more than one set of armour in any case...
Seems like a pretty big issue to me. Someone in the books would have mentioned by now if Rhaegar was unusually short/slight of stature. And Aerys would have suspected him before Jaime, if that were the case. I mean, if your unusually short son you're suspicious of anyway is out of sight at the exact same time a mystery knight of similar stature shows up ... why look for any other suspects?
Seems like a pretty big issue to me. Someone in the books would have mentioned by now if Rhaegar was unusually short/slight of stature.
By that logic someone in the books should have mentioned by now that Rhaegar was tall.
I might also add, that the World Book changed the appearance of the mystery knight a tad
The first was the appearance of a mystery knight, a slight young man in ill-fitting armor whose device was a carved white weirwood tree, its features twisted in mirth. The Knight of the Laughing Tree, as this challenger was called, unhorsed three men in successive tilts, to the delight of the commons.
No longer is the mystery knight abnormally small. They were a slight young man by our latest description. As I explained though, the size isn't really a con for Rhaegar. We have no idea what size Rhaegar was.
Hence why I find it a tad amusing when I see 90% of the fan art of Robert vs Rhaegar. Most showcase just two warriors fighting. Problem is that Robert was described as being 6'6 and muscled like a maiden's fantasy. He was a giant of a man. He likely dwarved Rhaegar when they fought, even though they were on horseback
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
imagine how great a twist it would be if GRRM soon reveals that Rhaegar was a half-man.
So that's why he was always so melancholy
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
By that logic someone in the books should have mentioned by now that Rhaegar was tall.
Umm, no. There are men who are outstandingly big/tall, like Robert, or Gregor, and that tends to get mentioned. Then there are people who are smaller than usual, like crannogmen and dwarves, and that tends to get mentioned as well. Young boys are also usually 'slighter' than grown men, it's usually mentioned if they aren't. And there are those who are of unremarkably average size for grown men, and then there's no reason to mention it.
No, we don't know how tall Rhaegar was, but from lack of anyone saying otherwise it's seems reasonably likely that he wasn't outstandingly tall or short. And we don't know how tall 15-year-old Jaime Lannister was - he's on the tall side as a grown-up, I think, but it's plausible that at 15, among grown men, he'd have been 'slight'. Aerys certainly thought his height and build was more-or-less fitting. We also don't know for sure how short TKotLT was, but whether it 'short' or 'slight', if Meera's tale says he was short enough to possibly be a crannogman (and it's not like that's contradicted by 'slight'), then I see no reason to discount that in order to accommodate a fancy theory. So, as far as I'm concerned, size is still a con for Rhaegar.
Is it impossible that Rhaegar was the KotLT? No, nothing to conclusively contradict it so far. But is it likely? Nope, chances are slim.