Mayhaps the servitors are simply given beautiful women to sate their carnal desires?
That's one thing I've considered is that this isn't a vision at all, but Dany actually walking by a fivesome, with the visions starting at the Red Wedding
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Mayhaps the servitors are simply given beautiful women to sate their carnal desires?
That's one thing I've considered is that this isn't a vision at all, but Dany actually walking by a fivesome, with the visions starting at the Red Wedding
Mayhaps it's the last girl who visited the palace of dust? Or, if indeed a vision, mayhaps it's just Dany - if she can't escape... She seems to hear them stalking her throughout the tour. What happens if they catch her?
It always seemed far different from the other doors. Far more dangerous. Far more disturbing.
Just my two groats.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Oh, yes. The Singers in the roots of the trees remind me of the Undying.
And even to the House of Black and White (in the cave of skulls, all is black and white with no colors).
We have all been doing an awful lot of talking about this lately. Even if I have a bit of a different take on it, I'd really like to hear some other opinions on it. I'm feeling quite lonely in my analysis of it over on heresy... Could be that I'm just missing something.
Preliminary ideas:
Basic parallels: The cave of skulls is made of stone and lies beneath a network of ancient weirwoods. Everything inside is black and white--no colors. The house of the undying is a stand-alone stone building, no windows or doors (save the one) built in a network of trees with black bark and blue leaves. The House of Black and White: Stand alone stone building with network of floors. No windows and doors--save the front doors which are made of black wood and white wood. White wood likely to be wierwood (do we have another source for white wood in text?). Black wood gets called ebony--but is there any evidence it's not the same wood as the trees at the House of the Undying?
Visions: Cave of skulls: Bran given weirwood paste and taught by a mentor to see visions--includes the pasts of those connected to the trees. House of the Undying: Dany given shade of the evening and visions; definitely from her past, also apparently from the future. Offered to be "taught" more. Freaks out and runs when sees what they really are. (good girl!) House of Black and White: Arya offered chance to learn the arts of the FM. Given milk which blinds her BUT eventually sees through the eyes of a cat--not visions, but definitely warging of a sort. Does have dreams/nightmares of the abused girl whose face she wears--visions of those connected to the faces in the House.
That's all I've got for now.
Last Edit: Aug 6, 2015 19:11:18 GMT by SlyWren: finishing
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
It all makes me wonder if these visions aren't manipulations somehow; they're being shown to someone to make them do something - think of Bran: all of his visions had the effect of getting him to go up North, and they were sent to him by someone who had that effect as his whole agenda. Are Dany's visions representative of someone's agenda?
Agrees that Bran might be being set up. But think we might have evidence of a "set up " for Dany in the order of the visions. Or at least the first set of visions.
1. Dwarves raping woman--I like voice's idea that this could be Dany seeing the truth about the House and the purpose of the Undying. What they really want with her. 2. But then goes to something that looks like it could be actual future: Red Wedding, but all details not right. 3. But after the scary visions, it's Dany's safe and happy past of the Red Door--am wondering if the Undying might have some control over the visions and are starting to direct her. 4. Aerys in throne room--not a happy picture of Daddy, but still part of her family history. 5. Rhaegar and family--very happy image. Rhaegar even looks at Dany--like he had a plan for her as well. One of the reasons I'm not sure this is supposed to be seen as prophecy rather than family history, let alone confirmation of Rhaegar's interp of the property.
Only then do the Warlocks appear in their pretty, pretty forms--we can help you, blah, blah, blah.
Don't know how much control the Warlocks have. But the order of the first five visions--seem to be setting Dany up to want to know more--about her family. Not unlike Bran's being lured to the cave--only to be told he isn't going to walk again. But fly--and he goes with it. Dany doesn't go with them.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Call me crazy, but I kind of think Rhaegal really did burst out of MMD's forehead.
AGOT, Dany X:
The sun was going down when she called them back to carry his body to the pyre. The Dothraki watched in silence as Jhogo and Aggo bore him from the tent. Dany walked behind them. They laid him down on his cushions and silks, his head toward the Mother of Mountains far to the northeast.
"Oil," she commanded, and they brought forth the jars and poured them over the pyre, soaking the silks and the brush and the bundles of dry grass, until the oil trickled from beneath the logs and the air was rich with fragrance. "Bring my eggs," Dany commanded her handmaids. Something in her voice made them run.
Ser Jorah took her arm. "My queen, Drogo will have no use for dragon's eggs in the night lands. Better to sell them in Asshai. Sell one and we can buy a ship to take us back to the Free Cities. Sell all three and you will be a wealthy woman all your days."
"They were not given to me to sell," Dany told him.
She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. The black beside his heart, under his arm. The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. The cream-and-gold down between his legs. When she kissed him for the last time, Dany could taste the sweetness of the oil on his lips.
As she climbed down off the pyre, she noticed Mirri Maz Duur watching her. "You are mad," the godswife said hoarsely.
"Is it so far from madness to wisdom?" Dany asked. "Ser Jorah, take this maegi and bind her to the pyre."
"To the . . . my queen, no, hear me . . . "
"Do as I say." Still he hesitated, until her anger flared. "You swore to obey me, whatever might come. Rakharo, help him."
The godswife did not cry out as they dragged her to Khal Drogo's pyre and staked her down amidst his treasures. Dany poured the oil over the woman's head herself. "I thank you, Mirri Maz Duur," she said, "for the lessons you have taught me."
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
True. But still, it was next to Drogo's head, and what Dany valued/gained from MMD is knowledge. Then, in the HotU, she sees a dragon burst forth from her brow. I'm thinking the eggs held the physical embryos of dragons, but each needed an extra, added ingredient from Dany.
I'm wondering if Rhaegal embodies the knowledge Dany gained from MMD... if Drogon embodies the love she found for herself and her life through Drogo... and, if Viseryon embodies the seed/child of her fertility.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
True. But still, it was next to Drogo's head, and what Dany valued/gained from MMD is knowledge. Then, in the HotU, she sees a dragon burst forth from her brow. I'm thinking the eggs held the physical embryos of dragons, but each needed an extra, added ingredient from Dany.
I'm wondering if Rhaegal embodies the knowledge Dany gained from MMD... if Drogon embodies the love she found for herself and her life through Drogo... and, if Viseryon embodies the seed/child of her fertility.
I like this--that the three dragons come from different "sacrifices." Barristan states that Rhaegal is more dangerous than Viserion, the one that presumably would be from the sacrifice of Dany's son. If MMD was the source of Rhaegal, if the vision in the HotU is actually giving Dany some workable information--could have very interesting implications for Dany's ability to use 3 dragons. Let alone having others ride them with her.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
I like this--that the three dragons come from different "sacrifices." Barristan states that Rhaegal is more dangerous than Viserion, the one that presumably would be from the sacrifice of Dany's son. If MMD was the source of Rhaegal, if the vision in the HotU is actually giving Dany some workable information--could have very interesting implications for Dany's ability to use 3 dragons. Let alone having others ride them with her.
:::
That's what I'm thinking... Perhaps the dragons are her three heads? Or, if nothing else, she's still their mother, that might make it hard for anyone else to mount one...
But, the only one that seems truly "bound" to Dany is the one who's heart she married in barbaric splendor. Her sun and stars. Hmm. Sun and Stars, Fire and Ice, ...drink from the cup of ice...drink from the cup of fire... the synapses are sending sparks but the bulb is not yet lit. :::
That's what I'm thinking... Perhaps the dragons are her three heads? Or, if nothing else, she's still their mother, that might make it hard for anyone else to mount one...
Potential crazy time: "the dragon must have three heads." Everyone reads that as "the three dragons will have three dragon riders." So that's why Rhaegar wanted three kids.
But what if the "Dragon" means "the Targaryen" or "the PtwP." And "must have three heads" just means "3 dragons." Like on the Targ sigil. Dragon with three heads.
So, Dany has 3 dragons. And she's at their head. Rhaegar got it wrong (shocking!). And if the message in the vision is to Dany, it's saying "you have the three dragons. You are the PtwP."
Now Dany just needs to learn how to lead all three.
Or I'm just crazy.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
That's what I'm thinking... Perhaps the dragons are her three heads? Or, if nothing else, she's still their mother, that might make it hard for anyone else to mount one...
Potential crazy time: "the dragon must have three heads." Everyone reads that as "the three dragons will have three dragon riders." So that's why Rhaegar wanted three kids.
But what if the "Dragon" means "the Targaryen" or "the PtwP." And "must have three heads" just means "3 dragons." Like on the Targ sigil. Dragon with three heads.
So, Dany has 3 dragons. And she's at their head. Rhaegar got it wrong (shocking!). And if the message in the vision is to Dany, it's saying "you have the three dragons. You are the PtwP."
Now Dany just needs to learn how to lead all three.
Or I'm just crazy.
Well that's pretty much what I was thinking too, so I hope it isn't too crazy. LOL
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Potential crazy time: "the dragon must have three heads." Everyone reads that as "the three dragons will have three dragon riders." So that's why Rhaegar wanted three kids.
But what if the "Dragon" means "the Targaryen" or "the PtwP." And "must have three heads" just means "3 dragons." Like on the Targ sigil. Dragon with three heads.
So, Dany has 3 dragons. And she's at their head. Rhaegar got it wrong (shocking!). And if the message in the vision is to Dany, it's saying "you have the three dragons. You are the PtwP."
Now Dany just needs to learn how to lead all three.
Or I'm just crazy.
Well that's pretty much what I was thinking too, so I hope it isn't too crazy. LOL
Well--insanity loves company.
But along these same lines: if the vision is telling Dany she is the PtwP because she as Dragon has three dragon heads--Dany is being set up to lead in isolation. When Bran has his visions, he sees family far back. The trees presumably have generations of Stark and northern memories in them. But Dany's visions--they don't seem to be a Targaryen collective. She isn't tapping into a collective past to know her future.
The Stark siblings are a pack. Dany and her Dragons are a singular unit--her one pack-mate is dead. With her tacit approval. She's sacrificed the family she wanted (Drogo and Rhaego) as well as MMD. The dragon comes out of MMD's forehead. So, Dany has a pack of Dragons, not people. An isolated unit only of dragons. Dragons she's struggling to control--not work with as a pack.
Think we're seeing the PtwP as an isolated figure. Isolation did NOT serve Dany's father well. Visions show her the dangers of thinking like him. Seeing herself as a savior/ fire and blood conqueror--even if she doesn't go technically mad, she's got no human equals (as the Starks do) to help her. IF Dany's the PTWP, seems like Rhaegar's guess of needing # human Targs would have been a better model. At least Aegon I had sisters to work with. Dany's isolated.
Last Edit: Aug 16, 2015 4:53:49 GMT by SlyWren: spelling
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Mayhaps her bloodriders, who bound their lives to her own when she hatched the dragons, will be her fellow dragon mounts.
Yes--this is what I'm starting to think about the visions. All of the Targ ties are dead. She agreed to Viserys' death. Raised dragons, yes. But did so with Dothraki husband, half-Dothraki baby, and Dothraki-captured prisoner.
Throw in her visions of the stars, and the Dosh Khaleen, and the Mother of Mountains--the dragons should tie her to the Targs (bride of fire). But they seem to be tying her to the Dothraki. And the Dothraki beliefs.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.