Either of y'all think we see Darkstar steal Dawn in TWoW? We learned in AWoIaF that there is a Sword of the Evening title as well, could this be when a non-worthy Dayne has Dawn? Or a SotM who disgraced the office somehow? Seems too convenient to establish the SotE title and not let Darkstar become it. We have a POV in Areo Hotah that is chasing him through Dorne, which would give us the opportunity to see Starfall or High Hermitage and get some Dayne history.
Plus I think Darkstar's only move left is to get Dawn and offer himself up for service in Aegon's Kingsguard. I think Connington will see the value and symbolism in having a Dayne wielding Dawn behind Aegon's claim, and if will dovetail multiple POVs together in the south. I think it also ties into my theory that Dany is leading the new Band of Nine invasion and Aegon's first test as king will be how to handle that.
Either of y'all think we see Darkstar steal Dawn in TWoW? We learned in AWoIaF that there is a Sword of the Evening title as well, could this be when a non-worthy Dayne has Dawn? Or a SotM who disgraced the office somehow? Seems too convenient to establish the SotE title and not let Darkstar become it. We have a POV in Areo Hotah that is chasing him through Dorne, which would give us the opportunity to see Starfall or High Hermitage and get some Dayne history.
Plus I think Darkstar's only move left is to get Dawn and offer himself up for service in Aegon's Kingsguard. I think Connington will see the value and symbolism in having a Dayne wielding Dawn behind Aegon's claim, and if will dovetail multiple POVs together in the south. I think it also ties into my theory that Dany is leading the new Band of Nine invasion and Aegon's first test as king will be how to handle that.
I've only read this part of the books once, and haven't thought that much of Darkstar yet. And as I now have A Feast with Dragons, this reread and a Jon reread on my plate + Dunk & Egg (jeeze, talk about making problems for oneself!) I'm not sure when I'll get to this part.
What struck me as I read this is that the one Sword of the Evening we have was the one that got sent to the Wall, wasn't it? I took a quick look in the World book, and that's all I found. So the question becomes if he was a wielder of Dawn or not. I wonder if that title could be for any defeated Dayne if not, but I'd guess this is wrong. If it's a SotM who is defeated, would he then get that title? To me it makes sense at least. If so, and Arthur lived and went to the Wall... Mayhaps we have one already!
If Darkstar will get his hands on Dawn, I'm not sure. We'll probably get something big going down in Starfall and/or High Hermitage (interesting name this last one!) in the next book, that's for sure. As we also have Areo's prowess with his longaxe (or whatever that's called, can't remember), and Arienne pointing out how good he is in her samlechapter. As for the rest; you make good points re: having a Dayne with Dawn in a KG, but would he go with someone like Darkstar? And I'd think this would be difficult if the Martells back Aegon - something I'm not at all sure will happen, Arienne is set up to fail just like Oberyn and Quentyn. Martin is probably setting up several repeating histories for the next two books, just not sure how to knit it together yet.
What strikes me the most about this chapter is that we learn that the NW is a brotherhood. Waymar Royce is the blood of an ancient house and a knight at 18 years old. His status and lineage separate him from Gared and Will. We are also introduced to the Others for the first time, twins to each other.
Waymar's confrontation with the Other takes on the form of a trial by champion with his twins waiting and watching. Waymar's opponent takes a moment to study Waymar's sword before striking. He mocks Waymar just as the brothers of the watch mock him in their cups. It's only after Waymar is killed that the others join in to defile Waymar's body and blood their own swords.
He found what was left of the sword a few feet away, the end splintered and twisted like a tree struck by lightning. Will knelt, looked around warily, and snatched it up. The broken sword would be his proof. Gared would know what to make of it, and if not him, then surely that old bear Mormont or Maester Aemon. Would Gared still be waiting with the horses? He had to hurry.
The tree struck by lightening is something that Jon also sees later:
As he rode past a lightning-blasted chestnut tree overgrown with wild white roses, he heard something rustling in the underbrush. "Ghost," he called out. "Ghost, to me." - A Clash of Kings - Jon III
A lightening-blasted sword and a lightening-blasted tree overgrown with wild white roses. This puts me in mind of the dawn sword made from the heart of a fallen stark and the white walkers growing from a lightning blasted tree.
Will refers to the 'broken sword' and an old chestnut is a story of the broken sword.
If you refer to a statement, a story, or a joke as an old chestnut or a hoary chestnut, you mean that it has been repeated so often that it is no longer interesting.
That's what I'm thinking. Like the Others in this Prologue, the Sword of House Dayne is very special. It is alive with light, it cut through Jaime's shoulders with only a tap, and, well, it used to belong to House Stark.
We know that Dawn is not inherited by rights of primogeniture the way other swords of other great houses are. Rather, a swordsman deemed worthy of the blade claims it. It is the only merit-based sword in ASOIAF. The one who carrys it is literally carrying Dawn into Battles for Dawn. And when Ned received Jon, he was that one.
In other words, the Sword of the Morning = Lightbringer, the keeper of Dawn.
In Ned's situation, at Lyanna's bedside, it would have made perfect sense to use Dawn as the instrument for a life-saving Cesarean Section (which has been around for a very long time irl). I'm thinking, Ned brought Dawn, and Dawn brought Jon.
Thus, Dawn chose Jon at birth, and made him live. It only makes sense that Jon would claim the blade when he is deemed worthy.
This is all pure speculation of course, but I think it might explain why Edric Dayne was so proud to be the milkbrother of a bastard, and why he was eager to let Arya know and to ask her about him. I think House Dayne knows that Dawn chose Jon.
Hence the seventeen-year vacancy of the Sword of the Morning, in spite of at least two Dayne swordsmen being present: Edric and Darkstar.
I am willing to consider most anything. And some of this works in my head, but I do like the idea that Jon was born in the north, even though Dorne is commonly accepted, and so that means Dawn would have needed to be in the north at some point. I still think it could be in the crypts of Winterfell, regardless that we are lead to believe that Eddard returned it to Starfall. That might just be a cover for Eddard going to Starfall to steal/take a baby. Granted, my idea that Jon was born in the north, at or near Winterfell, is also pure speculation. I really like the idea of Jon being born by an act of Ned using the sword Dawn, but part of me also thinks Lyanna just pushed that baby out with ease, and then left him in a safe place and went on to try to tie up some loose ends in the kingdom.
Also, if birth by c-section is what makes Jon the next SotM, then are all SotM born by c-section by Dawn? I am not sure about that idea.
Spattered with gore could indicate a c-section by an untrained hand, but it also could be someone stabbing Lyanna in the belly, a wound which had nothing to do with birth. I try to consider all the possibilities but sometimes it gives me a headache!
I still think aspects of Ned Dayne's story are false. I don't think he his lying, but I think he might have been fed misinformation at some point, and is now passing that misinformation on.
I know you want to figure things out through the main books, and that's cool. Do you think SSMs are fair use too? I think they are, and use them. And he has made comments on Ned's skills related to war and combat.
I pay attention to the SSM's but I don't consider them firm, like statements in the books (which are also vague depending on the unreliable narrator aspect). I think GRRM has even stated it's not canon until he writes it into the books. The SSM's do give us some information to go by, however, but they are dependent on the question asked, the person who's information it comes from (if it was a personal interaction with George), and by what he is willing to reveal. He is crafty, not just in his writing but in how he answers questions, and he has become much more guarded about how he answers in recent years.
And I'll never ever forgive Martin if he kills Arthur with a fishingnet. If so I might burn the books...
LOL. Well, we did see what Meera can do with a fishnet, and I think she has some major aspects of Howland in her actions. A retiarius was a style of gladiator fighting in which the combatant used a weighted net, a trident and a dagger in battle. It seems like the retiarius was considered a bit feminine and lowly as a style of fighting, but it was also pretty darn effective. So please don't be too sad if SAD got tangled up in a fish net and was skewered, and don't burn your books. Maybe just toss them outside on the curb, and then you can retrieve them once your anger passes!
Seriously though, I know perfectly well there are problems with this. And I see other possibilities in the text, so I'm not convinced by any theory at present. Even if I let myself get carried away on a certain wave from time to time.
Never fear! I think we all get carried away with our own bits of tinfoil and theory crafting. That is what makes it fun!
I might be wrong as I don't know that much about swords, but my understanding is that greatswords are usually carried on the back like that. With the notable exeption of the Mountain that carries and uses his like a regular sword. And the picture in the World book of Dawn would indicate that it's way too long to carry on the hip. So I haven't thought of that as a clue.
Well, I do like the art work in the world book, and I am pretty certain those pictures have GRRM's approval. Great swords are longer than bastard swords, which are longer than long swords, I think. I am sure it would take a tall man to carry one on his hip. But I think a person would not have to be a huge hulking brute like the Mountain to do it. The Hound might be able to as well, but he only carries a long sword.
Heck, Ned doesn't even seem carry Ice himself, that we are told, only told in Bran I that Theon "brought forth" the sword, but we are never given any detail about how Theon carried the sword. Did Theon have Ice slung over his shoulder, and should that make us pay more attention to Theon's role in the endgame? Did Ned carry the sword over his shoulder and then give it to Theon to hold while he questioned Gared? Did Ned haul Ice to Kings Landing on the back of a donkey, or in a cart, or on his own back. We just are not given any details about that.
I always stumble over the sword being behind SAD's right shoulder. Is that supposed to indicate that SAD might have been a lefty, which would be the case if he wore his sword on his right hip, or does the sword over his right shoulder indicate he is right handed, and that is how you would draw a sword over your shoulder? In GRRM's world maybe, but in the real world, I don't think a person could draw a greatsword from their back unless they had long, long arms, and a greatsword was probably just sheathed and transported over the shoulder.
To tie this to the current chapter, even if quite tangentially, look at how Ser Waymar Royce was reborn from a sword much like Dawn that is, like Dawn, "alive with light".
I don't really see Waymer as a different type of wight than any other, so I am not sure it matters what sword killed him. Unless we are going to have different level's of wights, and then that seems a bit like a video game bad guy option, to me.
The determining phrase here (albeit semicanon) is, "There are boys who secretly dream of being a son of Starfall so they might claim that storied sword and its title."
And isn't that an interesting choice of words...
While I agree that this is an interesting choice of words, it does come from the world book and I always squint at that information. How much do I trust it? What does it mean? Are their boys all over Westeros hoping they are hidden heirs to House Dayne, or just Dayne bastards, if the blood is all that matters, and not the name. Certainly, the information is there for a reason, and the Season 6 History and Lord DVD's do highlight this line, I think. And what does "son of Starfall" mean? Maybe Dawn has nothing to do with the blood of House Dayne but just a person who was born at Starfall? Vagueness strikes again!
This part follows the same line of Meera's story of HH: Little Ned is sure that Big Ned has told the (official) story to his kids. That he didn't is interesting indeed!
Hhmm. Maybe neither Howland nor the Daynes realized that Ned has some swiss-cheese memories? Certainly, it is odd that people expected Ned to tell his children certain stories but he didn't. We know from Bran's recollection in Bran I that Ned did tell his children stories about the Age of Heroes and the Children of the Forest. So, the possibilities are that 1) Ned was hiding something from his children, that 2) the stories he did not tell them were to painful for him to repeat, hence him not retelling those tales, or that 3) he just didn't remember the details.
As I said, any non-Dayne getting Dawn kinda ruins that whole storyline for me. But as this is GRRM I wouldn't put it past him.
Well there is a chance that Dawn was a Stark sword long before it was a Dayne sword, and than if those houses share blood, then the reason that a member of House Dayne can wield Dawn is because of their Stark blood. And eventually it will get back to a member of House Stark's bloodline.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Either of y'all think we see Darkstar steal Dawn in TWoW? We learned in AWoIaF that there is a Sword of the Evening title as well, could this be when a non-worthy Dayne has Dawn? Or a SotM who disgraced the office somehow?
Interesting idea. I have wondered about the Sword of the Evening, too. We are told of only one, and he was sent to the Wall.
I think Connington will see the value and symbolism in having a Dayne wielding Dawn behind Aegon's claim,
This is a good idea. We know that JonCon is concerned about who Aegon/Young Griff has already named. He doesn't even think Rolly Duckfield is worthy of the white cloak, and Rolly is loyal to young Aegon for years. JonCon will no doubt continue to try to steer Aegon's choices. But the boy is getting more independent and so maybe it will be Aegon himself that chooses Darkstar for the kingsguard. JonCon might not like this choice of Aegon's, either.
A lightening-blasted sword and a lightening-blasted tree overgrown with wild white roses. This puts me in mind of the dawn sword made from the heart of a fallen stark and the white walkers growing from a lightning blasted tree.
Hhmm. You make this connection to the white roses and the white walkers, which I think in pretty damn sweet, and now it is making me rethink the blue roses in the story. If the white walkers are symbolized by white roses, then what does a blue rose symbolize to the idea of the Other's? A very special white walker? The king of the white walkers? A female white walker, like the Night's Queen might have been? A child of an Other and a Stark? My mind is humming right now. Interesting idea indeed!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Hhmm. You make this connection to the white roses and the white walkers, which I think in pretty damn sweet, and now it is making me rethink the blue roses in the story. If the white walkers are symbolized by white roses, then what does a blue rose symbolize to the idea of the Other's? A very special white walker? The king of the white walkers? A female white walker, like the Night's Queen might have been? A child of an Other and a Stark? My mind is humming right now. Interesting idea indeed!
My immediate impression is that blue roses or winter roses are dark blue. But they are not, they are pale blue or blue as frost as Ned describes them. They are probably more white and less blue.
It brings to mind the expression blue-blooded:
From the medieval European belief that royalty and nobility had blue blood; the elite had enough power and wealth that they could afford to have peasants and the urban poor do their dirty work for them- since the aristocrats were able to stay inside and avoid long hours in the fields (and the sunlight), they were often so pale that their blue veins showed under their translucent skin, thus leading people to believe that their blood was blue.
Now it generally refers to people from old money: families who have been wealthy aristocrats for generations on generations. The blue blood elite have long been discouraged from intermarrying with commoners, lest their pure bloodlines be contaminated, ignoring the degenerative effects of inbreeding.
White roses can absorb the color blue using water and blue dye and I wonder if this is why the crown of blue roses was such an insult to the Starks at the tourney of harrenhall.
Either of y'all think we see Darkstar steal Dawn in TWoW? We learned in AWoIaF that there is a Sword of the Evening title as well, could this be when a non-worthy Dayne has Dawn? Or a SotM who disgraced the office somehow? Seems too convenient to establish the SotE title and not let Darkstar become it. We have a POV in Areo Hotah that is chasing him through Dorne, which would give us the opportunity to see Starfall or High Hermitage and get some Dayne history.
Plus I think Darkstar's only move left is to get Dawn and offer himself up for service in Aegon's Kingsguard. I think Connington will see the value and symbolism in having a Dayne wielding Dawn behind Aegon's claim, and if will dovetail multiple POVs together in the south. I think it also ties into my theory that Dany is leading the new Band of Nine invasion and Aegon's first test as king will be how to handle that.
Mayhaps. If you're familiar with my Dawn theory, www.thelasthearth.com/thread/386/ice-dawn-updated , you know I'm very much all-in on the idea that Dawn represents a duality, and that the negative side of this duality gives us the "Sword of the Evening" title.
I can definitely see a man named "Darkstar", who attacked an unarmed girl, being susceptible to the temptation of stealing Dawn. But, in spite of his relatively minor role thus far, it would seem a bit too on-the-nose if he did, wouldn't it?
Just as the Morning/Evening Star accompanies the Moon in the ecliptic, so too would I expect Dawn to be kept in safe storage by women. (In GRRM's neck of the woods, Moon=Woman in native lore, and we find this native motif repeated in ASOIAF. Thread: thelasthearth.com/thread/159/daenerys-changing-woman )
I strongly suspect the "worthiness" required to be named The Sword of the Morning is determined by women or a woman of Starfall... in much the same way The Stallion who Mounts the World is named by the Dosh Khaleen.
We also have the GRRM motif: women=sheathes for swords. So this also suggests that Dawn is currently being kept by a woman/women.
And, one last point along this tangent... Ned seemed to understand this role for women of House Dayne. Ned didn't return Dawn to the Lord of Starfall, he returned it to Ashara.
So, if anyone might be willing to mistreat the woman/women keeping Dawn, and violate the "worthiness" requirement, it would be Darkstar.
I am just hoping that doesn't happen. Like Ned, Starfall already seems to have paid dear prices for a seventeen year old secret. House Stark has only recently ended up where they were left at the end of Jon Arryn's Rebellion.
It would really suck if Darkstar pulled a Theon.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Spattered with gore could indicate a c-section by an untrained hand, but it also could be someone stabbing Lyanna in the belly, a wound which had nothing to do with birth. I try to consider all the possibilities but sometimes it gives me a headache!
I still think aspects of Ned Dayne's story are false. I don't think he his lying, but I think he might have been fed misinformation at some point, and is now passing that misinformation on.
Heck, Ned doesn't even seem carry Ice himself, that we are told, only told in Bran I that Theon "brought forth" the sword, but we are never given any detail about how Theon carried the sword. Did Theon have Ice slung over his shoulder, and should that make us pay more attention to Theon's role in the endgame? Did Ned carry the sword over his shoulder and then give it to Theon to hold while he questioned Gared? Did Ned haul Ice to Kings Landing on the back of a donkey, or in a cart, or on his own back. We just are not given any details about that.
This could be because of seremonial use here by Ned, so Ice was not carried like a regularly used sword at the hip or on the shoulder.
Well, I do like the art work in the world book, and I am pretty certain those pictures have GRRM's approval. Great swords are longer than bastard swords, which are longer than long swords, I think. I am sure it would take a tall man to carry one on his hip. But I think a person would not have to be a huge hulking brute like the Mountain to do it. The Hound might be able to as well, but he only carries a long sword.
My impression is that GRRMs greatswords are carried on the back, but of course that could be wrong. I know next to nothing of swords, real or fantasy ones.
I always stumble over the sword being behind SAD's right shoulder. Is that supposed to indicate that SAD might have been a lefty, which would be the case if he wore his sword on his right hip, or does the sword over his right shoulder indicate he is right handed, and that is how you would draw a sword over your shoulder? In GRRM's world maybe, but in the real world, I don't think a person could draw a greatsword from their back unless they had long, long arms, and a greatsword was probably just sheathed and transported over the shoulder.
I think it shows him being right handed, and the sword is drawn from the same side as one's swordarm. To draw diagonally would cover one's eyes in the movement. As Dawn pokes up over Arthur's shoulder, it's probably near at hand. And if one isn't fully armored at neck and face, it would be easy to cut oneself. Which brings Monthy Python to mind with their suicide squad in "The life of Brian". I would like to see a realistic demonstration though!
Well there is a chance that Dawn was a Stark sword long before it was a Dayne sword, and than if those houses share blood, then the reason that a member of House Dayne can wield Dawn is because of their Stark blood. And eventually it will get back to a member of House Stark's bloodline.
I know, but I'm not fully convinced of that. I'll have to make my own investigation into the swords in the story first. And yes, Dawn being wielded by a Dayne is very much stuck in my head to make me very biased indeed.
Hhmm. Maybe neither Howland nor the Daynes realized that Ned has some swiss-cheese memories? Certainly, it is odd that people expected Ned to tell his children certain stories but he didn't. We know from Bran's recollection in Bran I that Ned did tell his children stories about the Age of Heroes and the Children of the Forest. So, the possibilities are that 1) Ned was hiding something from his children, that 2) the stories he did not tell them were to painful for him to repeat, hence him not retelling those tales, or that 3) he just didn't remember the details.
I don't think it's to do with memoryholes, but Ned's own feelings of those two years. He doesn't want to talk about it at all I think. And probably tries to think of it as little as possible too. It would also lead to questions about Jon, at least the Starfall thing, and he kept mum about that. But I'm not actually sure if that has to do with secrets at all. Not talking is not the same as sectrets in and of itself imo.
LOL. Well, we did see what Meera can do with a fishnet, and I think she has some major aspects of Howland in her actions. A retiarius was a style of gladiator fighting in which the combatant used a weighted net, a trident and a dagger in battle. It seems like the retiarius was considered a bit feminine and lowly as a style of fighting, but it was also pretty darn effective. So please don't be too sad if SAD got tangled up in a fish net and was skewered, and don't burn your books. Maybe just toss them outside on the curb, and then you can retrieve them once your anger passes!
Nope. Sorry, fishnet just doesn't cut it for me. Meera is good with her net, but Arthur Dayne is neither a wolf or Samwell Tarly. But I'll keep from going on a tangent here. As for the curbe, that could be destruction by water in my neck of the woods. Depending on season it can be rather rainy here. But I guess I'll cross that bridge or fire when/if the answer comes.
I pay attention to the SSM's but I don't consider them firm, like statements in the books (which are also vague depending on the unreliable narrator aspect). I think GRRM has even stated it's not canon until he writes it into the books. The SSM's do give us some information to go by, however, but they are dependent on the question asked, the person who's information it comes from (if it was a personal interaction with George), and by what he is willing to reveal. He is crafty, not just in his writing but in how he answers questions, and he has become much more guarded about how he answers in recent years.
I've mainly just read through them once right after finishing the books for the first time. After that jsut surching for some I've remembered or head of. I mainly use the books, and they are the only canon!. And he is crafty there as well, so maybe I should read them one more time, as in spring I was very green indeed!
I don't ever recall a discussion about the pale swords of the Others. I've always assumed they were made of ice. Considering the similarities between the longswords of the Others and the Palestone Sword of the Daynes; I'm not so sure. I think they might come from the same source.
In the prologue, they are described as:
- pale swords (longswords)
- a shard of crystal so thin they all but disappear when seen edge on
- as thin and sharp as a razor
- translucent, moonlight glimmers off it's surface
- a feint blue light playing around the edge of the sword
- not forged from any human metal
In spite of it's thin construction; the sword is incredibly strong, withstanding repeated volleys between Waymar and the Other until the sword becomes alive with light and Waymar's sword is shattered like a lightening blasted tree raining shards of splinters and needles.
The build-up of light and the 'crystal' structure of the sword seems to imply that the sword builds up an electric charge after repeated contact with Waymar's sword until it's discharged into Waymer's sword. A contact that emits a high pitch sound at the edge of hearing, that Will describes as a scream. The Other's sword sounds like a piezoelectric crystal.
It also sounds very much like the dawn sword recalling Ned's memory of the sword alive with light.
A shard is something that is split off a larger object and so I wonder if the Dawn Sword and the Other's swords come from a lightening blasted stone tree and these swords are splinters and needles from that source.
What does the heart of a dragon look like? Is it an oily black stone? What about an ice dragon? Is it a translucent crystal, a pale stone?
I don't think the notion that the Wall (a blue crystal) can generate an electrical charge is out of the question or far fetched. It might be built from ice but it is old and has the structure of stone. Ice can burn, so says Orell's eagle.
White roses can absorb the color blue using water and blue dye and I wonder if this is why the crown of blue roses was such an insult to the Starks at the tourney of harrenhall.
So you are thinking the roses that Rhaegar presented at Harrenhal were dyed white roses and not actual blue "winter" roses at all? It is possible, since blue winter roses are rare and found in Winterfell's glass gardens, which is no where near Harrenhal.
I am just hoping that doesn't happen. Like Ned, Starfall already seems to have paid dear prices for a seventeen year old secret. House Stark has only recently ended up where they were left at the end of Jon Arryn's Rebellion.
It would really suck if Darkstar pulled a Theon.
If this is in the cards, maybe part of Theon's role is to convince Darkstar that there is a better path.
This could be because of seremonial use here by Ned, so Ice was not carried like a regularly used sword at the hip or on the shoulder.
It would be interesting enough to know if Ned ever carried Ice into battle. I feel like there is an SSM that state Ice is purely a ceremonial blade. It seems like a big sword to have on the battle field, but I just noted in a Catelyn chapter, when she goes to treat with Renly at Bitterbridge, she see's Randyll Tarly and he has the greatsword Heartsbane propped up against the back of his seat. So, does Randyll Tarly carry this greatsword into battle, or is just ceremonial and he just leans it on seats at banquets?
I would like to see a realistic demonstration though!
I seen a youtube demonstration about how it would be almost impossible to draw a greatsword from a sheath carried on a person's back. Now, whether GRRM considered the ease of such a maneuver I have no idea.
Here is the video link. The video is pretty short to watch. Whether is is accurate, I have no idea.
- a shard of crystal so thin they all but disappear when seen edge on
- as thin and sharp as a razor
- translucent, moonlight glimmers off it's surface
- a feint blue light playing around the edge of the sword
- not forged from any human metal
In spite of it's thin construction; the sword is incredibly strong, withstanding repeated volleys between Waymar and the Other until the sword becomes alive with light and Waymar's sword is shattered like a lightening blasted tree raining shards of splinters and needles.
Some of your description of the Other's blade actually brings Needle to mind. Certainly, it is not a long sword, but a bravos blade but other things are similar. Needle has several descriptions in the text for us to compare.
Jon drew out the blade slowly, so she could see the deep blue sheen of the steel. "This is no toy," he told her. "Be careful you don't cut yourself. The edges are sharp enough to shave with." AGOT-Jon II
"It's so skinny."
"So are you," Jon told her. "I had Mikken make this special. The bravos use swords like this in Pentos and Myr and the other Free Cities. It won't hack a man's head off, but it can poke him full of holes if you're fast enough." AGOT-Jon II
Arya lifted it out almost tenderly and drew the slender blade from its sheath. AGOT-Arya II
Needle glinted as she drew it. Polliver had kept it nice and sharp, at least. ASOS-Arya VIII
In her hand, Needle seemed to whisper to her. AFFC-Arya II
There certainly seems to be many similarities between Dawn and the blade of the Other, but there are hints of Needle in the description, too. Both have a sheen, both have a blue cast to them, both are skinny or slender, and sharp as a razor. We don't know what Dawn sounds like when it is used, but the Other's blade does make a sound that is unlike other steel. When the blades met, there was no ring of metal on metal; only a high, thin sound at the edge of hearing AGOT-Prologue, and Arya feel's as though Needle whisper's to her. A sound on the edge of hearing and a whisper seem very similar to me.
Needle does seem important to our story, and I think it is more than just a connection for Jon and Arya. Maybe it has something to do with similarities is shares with the blades of the Others?
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
So you are thinking the roses that Rhaegar presented at Harrenhal were dyed white roses and not actual blue "winter" roses at all? It is possible, since blue winter roses are rare and found in Winterfell's glass gardens, which is no where near Harrenhal.
Oh, I don't know. If they were winter roses then they are pale blue or probably more white than blue. If they have blue roses at Harrenhal, then anyone can have blue roses. LOL.
Oh, I don't know. If they were winter roses then they are pale blue or probably more white than blue. If they have blue roses at Harrenhal, then anyone can have blue roses. LOL.
Certainly it could have been done to try to mimic Stark blue roses. I always wondered why or how actual Winter roses got to Harrenhal.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I seen a youtube demonstration about how it would be almost impossible to draw a greatsword from a sheath carried on a person's back. Now, whether GRRM considered the ease of such a maneuver I have no idea.
Here is the video link. The video is pretty short to watch. Whether is is accurate, I have no idea.
And now we know why Arthur was so damn good: he had freakishly long arms!
I've never really thought much about this as some things I just run with. I do think Marting is pulling a Hollywood/fantasy thing here, and that's ok. Or maybe it was just slung casually over one shoulder, not diagonally across the chest. One suggestion from the video you linked to was this one, which looks into how greatswords were carried based on historical drawings etc:
It would be interesting enough to know if Ned ever carried Ice into battle. I feel like there is an SSM that state Ice is purely a ceremonial blade. It seems like a big sword to have on the battle field, but I just noted in a Catelyn chapter, when she goes to treat with Renly at Bitterbridge, she see's Randyll Tarly and he has the greatsword Heartsbane propped up against the back of his seat. So, does Randyll Tarly carry this greatsword into battle, or is just ceremonial and he just leans it on seats at banquets?
IIRC Martin said he never did, just used a regular sword. As to Tarly, when Brienne sees him in Maidenpool:
Brienne III Lord Randyll shared the platform with Lord Mooton, a pale, soft, fleshy man in a white doublet and red breeches, his ermine cloak pinned at the shoulder by a red-gold brooch in the shape of a salmon. Tarly wore mail and boiled leather, and a breastplate of grey steel. The hilt of a greatsword poked up above his left shoulder. Heartsbane, it was named, the pride of his House.
For now I think I'll let the great mystery of carrying greatswords lie, and focus on the smaller mysteries of the story.
Maybe it's a combination of birth location and blood.
I would think any candidate would have a close connection with the main Dayne house, and have the Dayne name. So not from a daughter married off x generations earlier etc. A son of Starfall indicates it has to be in the main branch of the family, but that can be debated. To me it would be interesting if Darkstar isn't even considered as he's from a cadet branch, and that fuels his resentment.
Well... we know Arthur would let him get another one before killing him, maybe Howland had some time to reason with him before they found one and convinced Dayne to take the black.
Ned's life changed at the tower of joy, and I think Arthur is the man who changed it. Ned's sword shattered, Howland tossed a net, Ned grabbed a new weapon, and Arthur spoke his final words.
If it's a SotM who is defeated, would he then get that title? To me it makes sense at least. If so, and Arthur lived and went to the Wall... Mayhaps we have one already!
trying to tie a few ideas together here, such as Mance is Raegar, Mance is Arthur, Arthur went to the Wall etc. May I suggest that in the 'now it ends' fight Arthur did not die but was severely maimed?
Howland - somehow - managed to cut Arthur's sword hand off - crannogmen are fierce fighters regardless of their size - and so he, Arthur, became at the mercy of Ned's sword. Ned - for important reasons of Stark/Dayne honour or newly learned birth - then offered Arthur to take the black. We do have a mighty swordsman at the Wall, who had been severely maimed: Qhorin Halfhand. And Qhorin takes immediate and particular interest in Jon.
We also have a parallel, and recall that in ASOIAF history repeats, with Jamie having his sword hand cut off and having to retrain himself from scratch.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."